BTCC Driving standards
Discussion
jimmywim said:
Really? Reg 6.5.1a of this year's regs state the manufacturer's fee is £8,750+VAT - that's not that much to a manufacturer, considering the driver's reg fee.
https://barc.blob.core.windows.net/barcnet/2016-ch...
This £18.5k includes all entry fees for the year, at around £840 per day, still ridiculous considering the amount of money the series generates from spectators, tv rights etc. Must be a premium related to the individual having a larger scope for advertising revenue.https://barc.blob.core.windows.net/barcnet/2016-ch...
FYI Racing bikes I average £120 per day
pitbikes £50
karting £55
emicen said:
df76 said:
emicen said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125647...
Rules amended following Snetterton's incidents.
Brings the BTCC regs more into line with general MSA regs, although it depends on how it's applied of course.Rules amended following Snetterton's incidents.
df76 said:
emicen said:
df76 said:
emicen said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125647...
Rules amended following Snetterton's incidents.
Brings the BTCC regs more into line with general MSA regs, although it depends on how it's applied of course.Rules amended following Snetterton's incidents.
emicen said:
df76 said:
emicen said:
df76 said:
emicen said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125647...
Rules amended following Snetterton's incidents.
Brings the BTCC regs more into line with general MSA regs, although it depends on how it's applied of course.Rules amended following Snetterton's incidents.
https://www.msauk.org/assets/67-75judicialc-2.pdf
Benjo42 said:
This £18.5k includes all entry fees for the year, at around £840 per day, still ridiculous considering the amount of money the series generates from spectators, tv rights etc. Must be a premium related to the individual having a larger scope for advertising revenue.
FYI Racing bikes I average £120 per day
pitbikes £50
karting £55
Most club car racing is £300+ a day for a couple of 15 minute races and that forms a substantial part of the overall costs, fair to say £18k is a drop in the ocean of the annual budget for any BTCC team.FYI Racing bikes I average £120 per day
pitbikes £50
karting £55
Steve H said:
Most club car racing is £300+ a day for a couple of 15 minute races and that forms a substantial part of the overall costs, fair to say £18k is a drop in the ocean of the annual budget for any BTCC team.
I pay £405 for a race weekend in BRSCC MX5s, which is a practice, quali and 2 (occasionally 3) races.Back to driving standards... Mike Epps was himself saying things haven't greatly improved, after he was forced off by Jeff Smith.
https://youtu.be/_ioR6n48wPI?t=2m45s
From 2:45 you can see Epps has the line on the inside, yet Smith forces his way into him sending Epps into a spin.
And all he got was a verbal warning.
https://youtu.be/_ioR6n48wPI?t=2m45s
From 2:45 you can see Epps has the line on the inside, yet Smith forces his way into him sending Epps into a spin.
And all he got was a verbal warning.
jimmywim said:
Back to driving standards... Mike Epps was himself saying things haven't greatly improved, after he was forced off by Jeff Smith.
https://youtu.be/_ioR6n48wPI?t=2m45s
From 2:45 you can see Epps has the line on the inside, yet Smith forces his way into him sending Epps into a spin.
And all he got was a verbal warning.
Smith seemed VERY aggressive all weekend, even in FP on Saturday. Perhaps feeling the loss of Lloyd?https://youtu.be/_ioR6n48wPI?t=2m45s
From 2:45 you can see Epps has the line on the inside, yet Smith forces his way into him sending Epps into a spin.
And all he got was a verbal warning.
Redlake27 said:
The quality of racing at the front of BTCC is superb. Yes, there are nudges, but that's part of the game in any touring car series from DTM to Nascar.
The Turkington/Shedden battle was brilliant. Collard (who has been a little hot-headed in the past) has had some brilliant racecraft this year. I like the fact that to be in championship contention, the drivers have to balance risk and opportunity. It's no surprise that in the last couple of years the final round shoot out has been between the most experienced drivers. It's one of the most difficult championships in the world to win, and success requires a lot of nous.....
There are plenty of drivers who have the pace to win. It's briliant that relatively young teams and drivers such as Morgan and Ingram have become winners. But even they have realised that stringing together a full year campaign requires more than just bursts of pace. Drivers such as Aiden Moffat and Warren Scott are investing in coaching (Tom Onslow-Cole and Alain Menu) to help them get to the highest level.
Pretty much agree with all of this. Standards haven't got significantly worse but there are bad drivers in much better and faster cars. This gives them the tools to end up mid pack and qualify reasonably but not necessarily the talent to maintain that position without succumbing to the pressure and stacking it.The Turkington/Shedden battle was brilliant. Collard (who has been a little hot-headed in the past) has had some brilliant racecraft this year. I like the fact that to be in championship contention, the drivers have to balance risk and opportunity. It's no surprise that in the last couple of years the final round shoot out has been between the most experienced drivers. It's one of the most difficult championships in the world to win, and success requires a lot of nous.....
There are plenty of drivers who have the pace to win. It's briliant that relatively young teams and drivers such as Morgan and Ingram have become winners. But even they have realised that stringing together a full year campaign requires more than just bursts of pace. Drivers such as Aiden Moffat and Warren Scott are investing in coaching (Tom Onslow-Cole and Alain Menu) to help them get to the highest level.
Plenty of pay drivers out there with no skill too (Andy Neate) but that's the case in every form of motorsport I can think of and who here wouldn't want to have a go in their favourite form of motor racing if their numbers came up? Doesn't mean any of us would be any good!
There's some excellent racing in the BTCC races, not all of it caught on camera and the accusation that the fans are all knuckle dragging retards and that it's not "proper motorsport" is frankly offensive. I love it but I find Formula 1 hard to connect with and a bit boring so maybe I am an idiot.
swooshiain said:
jimmywim said:
Back to driving standards... Mike Epps was himself saying things haven't greatly improved, after he was forced off by Jeff Smith.
https://youtu.be/_ioR6n48wPI?t=2m45s
From 2:45 you can see Epps has the line on the inside, yet Smith forces his way into him sending Epps into a spin.
And all he got was a verbal warning.
Smith seemed VERY aggressive all weekend, even in FP on Saturday. Perhaps feeling the loss of Lloyd?https://youtu.be/_ioR6n48wPI?t=2m45s
From 2:45 you can see Epps has the line on the inside, yet Smith forces his way into him sending Epps into a spin.
And all he got was a verbal warning.
Race Control outcome: Verbal warning.
Joke!
Where is the line drawn between verbal warning and points are given on licences? Based on the team?
I don't like Smith much but the blatent PIT manouvre on him by Howard in race three seems to have gone totally unpunished?
https://youtu.be/Pc6sdbnVa-Y
I expect the video won't last long.
Side by side
A bit of argy bargy but Howard has room
Howard runs out wide
The decides the best course of action is to move back over into the same space as another car and go for a PIT manoeuvre.
https://youtu.be/Pc6sdbnVa-Y
I expect the video won't last long.
Side by side
A bit of argy bargy but Howard has room
Howard runs out wide
The decides the best course of action is to move back over into the same space as another car and go for a PIT manoeuvre.
To be honest that just looks like Howard losing control. Picture 2 the car looks a bit crossed up then appears to fishtail to point the other way slightly then slams into the side of Smith. Still a rubbish bit of driving but presumably incompetence rather than malice?
EDIT: Lines is in front of that pack! How did that happen?
EDIT: Lines is in front of that pack! How did that happen?
I did a count - only counting actual penalty points, as who knows what a verbal warning, official reprimand or formal reprimand actually means (looks like nothing)
Matt Simpson - 6
Ollie Jackson - 5 + £500
Alex Martin - 5 + £1000
Rob Austin - 4
Tom Ingram - 3 + £500
Jason Potato - 3 + £500
Jeff Smith - 2
Colin Turkington - 2
Ashley Sutton - 2
Hunter Abbot - 2
Jack Goff - 2
Matt Neal - 2
Gordon Sheddon - 2
Kelvin Fletcher - 2
Michael Caine - 2
Brands Hatch
RACE ONE:
Ollie Jackson – official reprimand and two penalty points for an incident with Hunter Abbott.
RACE TWO:
Alex Martin – fined £500 and three points for an incident with Mark Howard.
RACE THREE:
Tom Ingram – £500 and three points for an incident with Jake Hill
Ashley Sutton – official reprimand and two points for an incident with Rob Austin.
Donington
RACE ONE:
Matt Simpson – official reprimand and two penalty points for incident with Rob Austin
Matt Simpson – official reprimand and two penalty points for incident with Daniel Welch
Rob Collard – verbal warning for gaining an unfair advantage at the start
RACE TWO:
Matt Simpson – verbal warning for incident with Kelvin Fletcher. He was subsequently deducted three championship points putting him onto minus two heading to Thruxton.
RACE THREE:
None Issued
Thruxton
RACE ONE:
None issued
RACE TWO:
None issued
RACE THREE:
Rob Collard – verbal warning for contact with Adam Morgan
Hunter Abbott – 2 penalty points and a official reprimand for contact with Stewart Lines
Jack Goff – 2 penalty points and a verbal warning for contact with Gordon Shedden
Oulton
QUALIFYING:
Jason Plato – Verbal warning for leaving the circuit and rejoining in an unsafe manner
RACE ONE:
Jason Plato – £500 fine and three penalty points for contact with Daniel Lloyd
Jeff Smith – Reprimand and two penalty points for an incident with Rob Collard
Martin Depper – Verbal warning for incident with Rob Austin
Team BMR – £500 fine for having a tyre trolley on the grid after the allotted time
RACE TWO:
Rob Austin – Reprimand and two penalty points for contact with Jake Hill
RACE THREE:
No penalties issued
Croft
QUALIFYING
Matt Neal – Official reprimand and two penalty points for contact with Rob Collard
RACE ONE
Gordon Shedden – Official reprimand and two penalty points for contact with Aiden Moffat
Kelvin Fletcher – Official reprimand and two penalty points for contact with James Cole
RACE TWO
Kelvin Fletcher – Verbal warning for incident with Daniel Welch
Rob Austin – Official reprimand and two penalty points for overtaking under yellow flags
RACE THREE
Chris Smiley – Formal reprimand for gaining an unfair advantage over Jeff Smith
Snetterton
RACE ONE
Martin Depper – Verbal warning for hitting Jeff Smith
Matt Simpson – Official reprimand and 2 points on his licence for contact with Michael Epps
RACE TWO
Warren Scott & Andrew Jordan – Verbal warning each for an on-track incident
Ollie Jackson – Fined £500 and issued 3 points on his licence for the multi-car incident on the Bentley Straight
RACE THREE
Alex Martin has been officially reprimanded and handed two penalty points for an incident that took place involving Mark Howard in race three
Mark Howard has been verbally warned for his part in the same incident
Gordon Shedden was also verbally warned for a separate incident in race three involving Jason Plato
Knockhill
GENERAL:
Alex Martin was fined £500 for failing to attend the drivers' parade
RACE ONE
Matt Neal received a verbal warning for an incident involving Adam Morgan
Dan Welch received a verbal warning for an incident involving Warren Scott
Michael Caine was officially reprimanded and received two penalty points for an incident involving Matt Simpson
RACE TWO
Jeff Smith received a verbal warning for an incident involving Michael Epps
Jake Hill received a verbal warning for an incident involving James Cole
RACE THREE
Colin Turkington was officially reprimanded and received two penalty points for an incident involving Rob Collard
Matt Simpson - 6
Ollie Jackson - 5 + £500
Alex Martin - 5 + £1000
Rob Austin - 4
Tom Ingram - 3 + £500
Jason Potato - 3 + £500
Jeff Smith - 2
Colin Turkington - 2
Ashley Sutton - 2
Hunter Abbot - 2
Jack Goff - 2
Matt Neal - 2
Gordon Sheddon - 2
Kelvin Fletcher - 2
Michael Caine - 2
Brands Hatch
RACE ONE:
Ollie Jackson – official reprimand and two penalty points for an incident with Hunter Abbott.
RACE TWO:
Alex Martin – fined £500 and three points for an incident with Mark Howard.
RACE THREE:
Tom Ingram – £500 and three points for an incident with Jake Hill
Ashley Sutton – official reprimand and two points for an incident with Rob Austin.
Donington
RACE ONE:
Matt Simpson – official reprimand and two penalty points for incident with Rob Austin
Matt Simpson – official reprimand and two penalty points for incident with Daniel Welch
Rob Collard – verbal warning for gaining an unfair advantage at the start
RACE TWO:
Matt Simpson – verbal warning for incident with Kelvin Fletcher. He was subsequently deducted three championship points putting him onto minus two heading to Thruxton.
RACE THREE:
None Issued
Thruxton
RACE ONE:
None issued
RACE TWO:
None issued
RACE THREE:
Rob Collard – verbal warning for contact with Adam Morgan
Hunter Abbott – 2 penalty points and a official reprimand for contact with Stewart Lines
Jack Goff – 2 penalty points and a verbal warning for contact with Gordon Shedden
Oulton
QUALIFYING:
Jason Plato – Verbal warning for leaving the circuit and rejoining in an unsafe manner
RACE ONE:
Jason Plato – £500 fine and three penalty points for contact with Daniel Lloyd
Jeff Smith – Reprimand and two penalty points for an incident with Rob Collard
Martin Depper – Verbal warning for incident with Rob Austin
Team BMR – £500 fine for having a tyre trolley on the grid after the allotted time
RACE TWO:
Rob Austin – Reprimand and two penalty points for contact with Jake Hill
RACE THREE:
No penalties issued
Croft
QUALIFYING
Matt Neal – Official reprimand and two penalty points for contact with Rob Collard
RACE ONE
Gordon Shedden – Official reprimand and two penalty points for contact with Aiden Moffat
Kelvin Fletcher – Official reprimand and two penalty points for contact with James Cole
RACE TWO
Kelvin Fletcher – Verbal warning for incident with Daniel Welch
Rob Austin – Official reprimand and two penalty points for overtaking under yellow flags
RACE THREE
Chris Smiley – Formal reprimand for gaining an unfair advantage over Jeff Smith
Snetterton
RACE ONE
Martin Depper – Verbal warning for hitting Jeff Smith
Matt Simpson – Official reprimand and 2 points on his licence for contact with Michael Epps
RACE TWO
Warren Scott & Andrew Jordan – Verbal warning each for an on-track incident
Ollie Jackson – Fined £500 and issued 3 points on his licence for the multi-car incident on the Bentley Straight
RACE THREE
Alex Martin has been officially reprimanded and handed two penalty points for an incident that took place involving Mark Howard in race three
Mark Howard has been verbally warned for his part in the same incident
Gordon Shedden was also verbally warned for a separate incident in race three involving Jason Plato
Knockhill
GENERAL:
Alex Martin was fined £500 for failing to attend the drivers' parade
RACE ONE
Matt Neal received a verbal warning for an incident involving Adam Morgan
Dan Welch received a verbal warning for an incident involving Warren Scott
Michael Caine was officially reprimanded and received two penalty points for an incident involving Matt Simpson
RACE TWO
Jeff Smith received a verbal warning for an incident involving Michael Epps
Jake Hill received a verbal warning for an incident involving James Cole
RACE THREE
Colin Turkington was officially reprimanded and received two penalty points for an incident involving Rob Collard
Edited by fivefive on Wednesday 17th August 12:07
fivefive said:
So, Smith makes a mistake on his own, loses 15th place and then just fires the driver who has overtaken into the barrier needing repairs for Race 3 and ruining their weekend forcing them to start towards the back.
Race Control outcome: Verbal warning.
Joke!
Where is the line drawn between verbal warning and points are given on licences? Based on the team?
I think anon anonymous poster on here are a joke as well, Race Control outcome: Verbal warning.
Joke!
Where is the line drawn between verbal warning and points are given on licences? Based on the team?
But drive through penalties for contact is the meaningful only way forward.
Adrian W said:
I think anon anonymous poster on here are a joke as well,
But drive through penalties for contact is the meaningful only way forward.
I'm sorry I don't feel the need to furnish you with my name or all my personal details on an internet forum Adrian.But drive through penalties for contact is the meaningful only way forward.
I have been to four events this year and have tickets for Rockingham and Silverstone. At those four events, I've seen the same few drivers (yellow car problems anyone) either cause safety cars, red flags or just unnecessary contact/damage. Most of these drivers don't have the budget to keep repairing the front and rear ends of their cars after each race. Quite often these incidents aren't in points paying positions and just ruin or dilute the action at the front. I'll be happy to report back on my viewings from Rockingham for you.
If the organisers are happy with this, then so be it - I just hope we don't see Snetterton scenes again. I'm not sure a drive through penalty will work (unless it has to be taken in the following race) - ITV4 miss half the action further down the pack as it is and they certainly need to rely on the judicial cameras to work out who's been up to what - I don't see that they can do that in a 20 minute race.
Adrian W said:
I think anon anonymous poster on here are a joke as well,
But drive through penalties for contact is the meaningful only way forward.
How is that going to work?But drive through penalties for contact is the meaningful only way forward.
Observer reports do not administer blame so footage needs to be reviewed. Done real time during a race, how many clerks is that going to take?
For the record, I'm in favour of driving standards being improved, not just in the BTCC but across all series because I see it filtering in to the on track behaviour of racers across the board. However, real time with drive through penalties is just not a workable solution. Look how (comparatively) little action and how long a time frame F1 has to play with and they still defer some decisions until after the race.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff