***The Official Rally Germany Thread***
Discussion
Can see why my friends say rallying is boring, especially after seeing this video..
https://youtu.be/LOjFdA1EcXA
Just silly fast at some points!
https://youtu.be/LOjFdA1EcXA
Just silly fast at some points!
GravelBen said:
You might be right about protecting the hinklesteins with the higher speeds next year but I guess they're not really any worse than trees or various other roadside objects, where do you draw the line? There is always going to be some risk involved.
True, but there's a lot of them and on the whole they tend to be frighteningly close to the edge of stages in places. Though I suggested protecting the cars from them, I have to say their shape doesn't really lend themselves to being protected easily with hay bales.
They're clearly lethal and wreak havoc on a WRC car as they don't move at all (I think only a 1/3 or a 1/4 projects out of the ground.
But the close proximity of trees, hinklesteins and Armco to the stages are what makes rallying what it is. Ask any circuit racer to race on a circuit with trees or large chunks of concrete often less than 2 metres from the circuit edge and they'd all boycott it ! !
This wasn't well particularly well publicised when I was in Germany watching the WRC back in 2013. Baumholder was wet and the driver lost control over the crest, the car hit a tree several feet up and both crew members were pronounced dead at the scene
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/25/dutch-rally-duo...
For all the relatively innocent looking stages in the vineyards, the German military ranges are very, very dangerous (which makes Loeb's unbroken ? run of victories there all the more impressive imo) never mind Ogier taking 30 seconds out of his teammate on Saturday over them this year.
Much as I've wanted to see WRC power outputs increased back to the early Group A levels (circa 380-400hp), I really hope the new cars built to the 2017 regulations don't turn out to be the blind alley (wonderful though it was) that the Group B cars were.
The new Polo looks considerably quicker than the current crop of WRC cars, I fear (and I really hope I'm proven wrong) that a crew or spectator fatality in the next few years is a real possibility.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihg15919Za4
The FIA mooted that carbon safety cells would be incorporated into WRC cars by 2017, did this idea just disappear in to the ether ?
Allyc85 said:
Can see why my friends say rallying is boring, especially after seeing this video..
https://youtu.be/LOjFdA1EcXA
Just silly fast at some points!
great stuff, why anyone raves about F1 is beyond me.https://youtu.be/LOjFdA1EcXA
Just silly fast at some points!
The current WRCars are the fastest rally cars through a stage we’ve ever seen. The ‘problem’ is they don’t always appear fast; there’s very little drama. Actually live stage side, they’re fantastic – but on the official WRC TV coverage they don’t seem that way.
So, why are we getting faster cars next year? Are they really needed?
What the WRC needs is far better promotion, different event types and better coverage. I don’t think the cars are the real problem.
So, why are we getting faster cars next year? Are they really needed?
What the WRC needs is far better promotion, different event types and better coverage. I don’t think the cars are the real problem.
Anyone else think that Lefebvre's performance (pre-crash obviously) should help cement Breen's position? Lefebvre is a tarmac specialist isn't he? Yet he was more than a minute behind the leaders after 8 stages, while Breen was able to keep up on a surface he doesn't really know.
Still though, I don't think Citroen will allow two Irishmen in the team sadly.
Still though, I don't think Citroen will allow two Irishmen in the team sadly.
Alex Langheck said:
The current WRCars are the fastest rally cars through a stage we’ve ever seen. The ‘problem’ is they don’t always appear fast; there’s very little drama. Actually live stage side, they’re fantastic – but on the official WRC TV coverage they don’t seem that way.
completely agree. you can really see how fast a car is moving in stage when its tracked from the chopper. but it never seems as spectacular on TV when being filmed from a static camera at one corner in the stage, usually giving 10 seconds coverage of the car.there were some epic shots from the powerstage Sunday on the live TV of the chopper chasing a car at one corner. those boys flying them deserve a mention for the angles they get too!
Alex Langheck said:
So, why are we getting faster cars next year? Are they really needed?
What the WRC needs is far better promotion, different event types and better coverage. I don’t think the cars are the real problem.
Absolutely this! the downforce upgrades maybe, but that'll probably make them look even more like scalextric cars on tv so more complaints from that.What the WRC needs is far better promotion, different event types and better coverage. I don’t think the cars are the real problem.
Pwig said:
The easiest way to solve everything is just to bring back endurance to the sport.
make them 4-5 day events, and more people will see them, and that means more people will turn the TV on to watch as well.
This too for me! changing the rule of fixed service areas would open up most rounds to take in larger stage distances. some classic stages could come back in! I don't think there's need for these massive service park buildings currently being used by Hyundai and Citroen. gone are the images of drivers munching on some food mid service sat on a stack of used tyres or having a team talk in the back of the tool van. now its all silver service posh restaurant style!make them 4-5 day events, and more people will see them, and that means more people will turn the TV on to watch as well.
Pwig said:
The easiest way to solve everything is just to bring back endurance to the sport.
make them 4-5 day events, and more people will see them, and that means more people will turn the TV on to watch as well.
Endurance - a word to bring a shiver to the WRC bigwigs......make them 4-5 day events, and more people will see them, and that means more people will turn the TV on to watch as well.
However, I do think 3-4 events need to be Endurance; especially events like Monte and GB....
The current identikit 2 & bit days isn't doing anything for the former 'classic' type events.
Alex Langheck said:
Endurance - a word to bring a shiver to the WRC bigwigs......
However, I do think 3-4 events need to be Endurance; especially events like Monte and GB....
The current identikit 2 & bit days isn't doing anything for the former 'classic' type events.
However, I do think 3-4 events need to be Endurance; especially events like Monte and GB....
The current identikit 2 & bit days isn't doing anything for the former 'classic' type events.
I agree, there should be variation in event format with more endurance for some of them. I liked the way Tour de Corse last year had a smaller number of long stages, it was just unfortunate that the weather caused some to be cancelled. At least it wasn't the whole rally cancelled like China though!
Was it GB last year where the longest stage was a pathetic 12 miles or something?
ETA I just checked - longest stage of GB 2015 was 20 miles, longest stage of 2014 was under 15 miles and most were less than 10.
Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 24th August 11:34
GravelBen said:
Alex Langheck said:
Endurance - a word to bring a shiver to the WRC bigwigs......
However, I do think 3-4 events need to be Endurance; especially events like Monte and GB....
The current identikit 2 & bit days isn't doing anything for the former 'classic' type events.
However, I do think 3-4 events need to be Endurance; especially events like Monte and GB....
The current identikit 2 & bit days isn't doing anything for the former 'classic' type events.
I agree, there should be variation in event format with more endurance for some of them. I liked the way Tour de Corse last year had a smaller number of long stages, it was just unfortunate that the weather caused some to be cancelled. At least it wasn't the whole rally cancelled like China though!
Was it GB last year where the longest stage was a pathetic 12 miles or something?
ETA I just checked - longest stage of GB 2015 was 20 miles, longest stage of 2014 was under 15 miles and most were less than 10.
Longest stage on the '83 RAC ? Dalby 65km (40 miles) ....
Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 24th August 11:34
And in 1995 Pundershaw was 35miles+
Thing is we do still occasionally see a monster stage, but it accounts for a huge percentage of the whole event. Whereas there were many long stages and and events were of a decent length.
I calculated that a recent RallyGB was about 210 miles (336km) long – that is a sprint distance. I reckon anything over 500km (312miles) qualifies as Endurance.
People keep mentioning longer, Endurance type events, but the teams, promoter, etc aren’t keen as it would cost more money.
My argument is having some longer events enables a wider geographical spread – and more publicity, media, etc
Thing is we do still occasionally see a monster stage, but it accounts for a huge percentage of the whole event. Whereas there were many long stages and and events were of a decent length.
I calculated that a recent RallyGB was about 210 miles (336km) long – that is a sprint distance. I reckon anything over 500km (312miles) qualifies as Endurance.
People keep mentioning longer, Endurance type events, but the teams, promoter, etc aren’t keen as it would cost more money.
My argument is having some longer events enables a wider geographical spread – and more publicity, media, etc
RyanTank said:
this year Rally GB is 332.87km long. the stages 22stages account for only 25.7% of the whole 1295.74km route
That's f
king appalling!! a quarter of the event is made up by stage action ffs!
I wouldn't be surprised to find that in the 'good old days' it was a similar ratio..That's f
king appalling!! a quarter of the event is made up by stage action ffs! I serviced on the 1986 Circuit of Ireland, Total stage mileage ? 600 miles...
As for Dalby (longest stage on the RAC in 1983), that would've taken you from the most Southerly point (Skipton) of the Yorkshire Dales National Park to almost the most Northerly point (Keld)
https://goo.gl/maps/nnarTNLD23Q2
Dalby on the '83 RAC was the first real forest stage I'd ever spectated on (I'd been to the Mickey Mouse stage at Longleat on the Saturday).
My introduction to a Group B car in the forests was shocking. We walked (a long way) into Dalby as the light faded late on Sunday afternoon, shortly after it went dark, we could hear the first cars approaching, but by then we'd still not reached the stage.
The noise of the cars ebbed only to return minutes later, and then as the noise increased, we suddenly we found ourselves at the tape adjacent to the stage. Less than a minute later Blomvquist's Quattro appeared, brake discs and turbo glowing cherry red, the six spotlights cutting through the gloom and dazzling us simultaneously' all amidst a hail of stones.
By then Blomvquist had been off the road and removed the rear quarter panel of the quattro, but despite the car's entrails being exposed for all to see :
http://www.mediastorehouse.com/lombard-rac-rally-g...
he went on to beat Mikkola's time by one minute 20 seconds (much to Hannu's amazement ! !).
As the rally progressed Blomvquist's mechanics formed a replacement quarter panel from plastic. I saw the car at a damp, grey and utterly depressing Swansea service area early on Tuesday morning.
1. Leg
SS1 Longleat 1 8.86 km 19. 11. 1983
SS2 Ashton Court 4.27 km
SS3 Castle Combe 3.22 km
SS4 Colerne 5.63 km
SS5 Longleat 2 8.86 km
Leg total 30.84 km
2. Leg
SS6 Bewdley 4.33 km 20. 11. 1983
SS7 Sutton Park 8.67 km
SS8 Weston Park 3.80 km
SS9 Trentham 7.19 km
SS10 Oulton Park 1 8.05 km
SS11 Knowsley 1 6.74 km
SS12 Harewood 2.67 km
SS13 Boltby 6.32 km
SS14 Cropton 17.65 km
SS15 Pickering 10.83 km
SS16 Dalby 65.18 km
SS17 Wykeham 15.50 km
SS18 Langdale 1 16.05 km
SS19 Langdale 2 4.26 km
SS20 Hamsterley 33.92 km
SS21 Slaley 10.30 km
SS22 Wark cancelled
SS23 Falstone 21.05 km
SS24 Rooken 14.42 km
SS25 Craik 13.28 km
SS26 Castle O'er 8.92 km
SS27 Twiglees 18.17 km
SS28 Lowther 6.48 km
SS29 Comb 9.03 km
SS31 Great Grizedale 1 27.75 km
SS32 Little Grizedale 10.35 km
Leg total 394.25 km
3. Leg
SS33 Great Grizedale 2 27.54 km 22. 11. 1983
SS34 Haigh Hall 4.10 km
SS35 Knowsley 2 6.70 km
SS36 Oulton Park 2 8.00 km
SS37 Clocaenog 1 9.10 km
SS38 Clocaenog 2 20.60 km
SS39 Clocaenog 3 6.20 km
SS40 Clocaenog 4 8.10 km
SS41 cancelled
SS42 Penmachno South 10.30 km
SS43 Maesgym 9.40 km
SS44 Mawddach 4.50 km
SS45 Blaen-y-Glyn 7.50 km
SS46 Gartheiniog 20.10 km
SS47 Dyfi 8.60 km ?
SS48 Pantperthog 13.60 km
SS49 Llanafan 7.00 km
SS50 Brechfa East 28.30 km
SS51 Brechfa West 21.70 km
SS52 Resolfen 1 36.80 km
SS53 Cymer 1 31.70 km
SS54 Afan 1 6.90 km
SS55 Margam 1 23.80 km
SS56 Resolfen 2 26.80 km
SS57 Cymer 2 31.70 km
SS58 Afan 2 6.90 km
SS59 Margam 2 24.30 km
Leg total 410.24 km
Event total 835.33 km
That's 512 stage miles in old money ....
As for Dalby (longest stage on the RAC in 1983), that would've taken you from the most Southerly point (Skipton) of the Yorkshire Dales National Park to almost the most Northerly point (Keld)
https://goo.gl/maps/nnarTNLD23Q2
Dalby on the '83 RAC was the first real forest stage I'd ever spectated on (I'd been to the Mickey Mouse stage at Longleat on the Saturday).
My introduction to a Group B car in the forests was shocking. We walked (a long way) into Dalby as the light faded late on Sunday afternoon, shortly after it went dark, we could hear the first cars approaching, but by then we'd still not reached the stage.
The noise of the cars ebbed only to return minutes later, and then as the noise increased, we suddenly we found ourselves at the tape adjacent to the stage. Less than a minute later Blomvquist's Quattro appeared, brake discs and turbo glowing cherry red, the six spotlights cutting through the gloom and dazzling us simultaneously' all amidst a hail of stones.
By then Blomvquist had been off the road and removed the rear quarter panel of the quattro, but despite the car's entrails being exposed for all to see :
http://www.mediastorehouse.com/lombard-rac-rally-g...
he went on to beat Mikkola's time by one minute 20 seconds (much to Hannu's amazement ! !).
As the rally progressed Blomvquist's mechanics formed a replacement quarter panel from plastic. I saw the car at a damp, grey and utterly depressing Swansea service area early on Tuesday morning.
1. Leg
SS1 Longleat 1 8.86 km 19. 11. 1983
SS2 Ashton Court 4.27 km
SS3 Castle Combe 3.22 km
SS4 Colerne 5.63 km
SS5 Longleat 2 8.86 km
Leg total 30.84 km
2. Leg
SS6 Bewdley 4.33 km 20. 11. 1983
SS7 Sutton Park 8.67 km
SS8 Weston Park 3.80 km
SS9 Trentham 7.19 km
SS10 Oulton Park 1 8.05 km
SS11 Knowsley 1 6.74 km
SS12 Harewood 2.67 km
SS13 Boltby 6.32 km
SS14 Cropton 17.65 km
SS15 Pickering 10.83 km
SS16 Dalby 65.18 km
SS17 Wykeham 15.50 km
SS18 Langdale 1 16.05 km
SS19 Langdale 2 4.26 km
SS20 Hamsterley 33.92 km
SS21 Slaley 10.30 km
SS22 Wark cancelled
SS23 Falstone 21.05 km
SS24 Rooken 14.42 km
SS25 Craik 13.28 km
SS26 Castle O'er 8.92 km
SS27 Twiglees 18.17 km
SS28 Lowther 6.48 km
SS29 Comb 9.03 km
SS31 Great Grizedale 1 27.75 km
SS32 Little Grizedale 10.35 km
Leg total 394.25 km
3. Leg
SS33 Great Grizedale 2 27.54 km 22. 11. 1983
SS34 Haigh Hall 4.10 km
SS35 Knowsley 2 6.70 km
SS36 Oulton Park 2 8.00 km
SS37 Clocaenog 1 9.10 km
SS38 Clocaenog 2 20.60 km
SS39 Clocaenog 3 6.20 km
SS40 Clocaenog 4 8.10 km
SS41 cancelled
SS42 Penmachno South 10.30 km
SS43 Maesgym 9.40 km
SS44 Mawddach 4.50 km
SS45 Blaen-y-Glyn 7.50 km
SS46 Gartheiniog 20.10 km
SS47 Dyfi 8.60 km ?
SS48 Pantperthog 13.60 km
SS49 Llanafan 7.00 km
SS50 Brechfa East 28.30 km
SS51 Brechfa West 21.70 km
SS52 Resolfen 1 36.80 km
SS53 Cymer 1 31.70 km
SS54 Afan 1 6.90 km
SS55 Margam 1 23.80 km
SS56 Resolfen 2 26.80 km
SS57 Cymer 2 31.70 km
SS58 Afan 2 6.90 km
SS59 Margam 2 24.30 km
Leg total 410.24 km
Event total 835.33 km
That's 512 stage miles in old money ....
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