World Of Sport Scottish Rally Coverage 1982

World Of Sport Scottish Rally Coverage 1982

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avenger286

425 posts

102 months

Monday 19th September 2016
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Fantastic thanks for posting .
Just remember the "Best rally in the world " Mull Rally starts in a little over 3 weeks .

zeb

3,193 posts

217 months

Monday 19th September 2016
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thanks for sharing, wonderful times

DelicaL400

516 posts

110 months

Monday 19th September 2016
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avenger286 said:
Fantastic thanks for posting .
Just remember the "Best rally in the world " Mull Rally starts in a little over 3 weeks .
Can't wait. The only stage rally I still go to in this new safety-obsessed world.

Great footage of the Scottish but also rather depressing - 47 stages, cars sideways everywhere, huge crowds, big names. Where did it all go wrong?!

Mr Peel

478 posts

121 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
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Great video - thanks. But this mournful "whatever happened to rallying" thing gets overdone. Isn't the reality that we all grow up and get distracted by work, kids and all the rest? When you lose touch it's easy to start thinking everything's gone downhill.

This sort of moaning is everywhere: football was better before the Premier League/Sky money came in; Skepta shouldn't have won the Mercury Prize and so on and so on... It's just grumpy old men.

How many of you moaners have seen a WRC car in action lately? I haven't, so I'm getting off my arse and into the Welsh forests next month for the first time in many years. Let's go!

DelicaL400

516 posts

110 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
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Mr Peel said:
Isn't the reality that we all grow up and get distracted by work, kids and all the rest? When you lose touch it's easy to start thinking everything's gone downhill.
Not really.

Compare the route of the event in the video to the Scottish rally this year. Compare the entry list and the amount of big names. Compare the crowds.

There is no doubt that the current WRC cars are much much faster than anything that has gone before and they'll get quicker next year. But I'd rather see Meeke etc in something slower and RWD.

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
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DelicaL400 said:
Mr Peel said:
Isn't the reality t
hat we all grow up and get distracted by work, kids and all the rest? When you lose touch it's easy to start thinking everything's gone downhill.
Not really.

Compare the route of the event in the video to the Scottish rally this year. Compare the entry list and the amount of big names. Compare the crowds.

There is no doubt that the current WRC cars are much much faster than anything that has gone before and they'll get quicker next year. But I'd rather see Meeke etc in something slower and RWD.
Sadly, in rallying it really has gone downhill. It's a pale shadow of what it was. I reckon of all the major motorsports - rallying has changed the most in the last 10-20 years - and not for the better.
A F1 Grand Prix is still about 1h30mins (290km), a MotoGP race is still about 40-50 mins, Le Mans is still 24 Hours - yet WRC is miles shorter than what it was; 2 and a bit days - if that.
Is it any wonder the interest isn't there?

So the current cars are faster than the fabled GpB 'Monsters'; so what?? And next years cars are reckoned to be even quicker. It's not going to make any difference. Though I hope I'm wrong...

DanielSan

18,748 posts

166 months

Wednesday 21st September 2016
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rossub said:
Let's face it, they need to change the cars in WRC. Nobody really wants to watch Fiestas, Polos, i20s and the like with little 1.6 engines do they?

Let VW loose with the Golf R, Ford with the Focus RS and Audi with the S3. Subaru might have a go too and maybe someone can persuade Honda to stick a prop and rear diff down the arse of the Type R and then we can have something interesting to watch!
Honda have kind of done it in the US with their Global Rallycross car.

2172cc

1,084 posts

96 months

Wednesday 21st September 2016
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Loved World of Sport and Grandstand in the 70's and 80's especially the rally and rallycross coverage. Still have quite a few VHS recordings of various rallies from that time including the one in the link on the first post. Used to watch them over and over and still remember some of the well known quotes from drivers such as Ari Vatanen being interviewed by Barrie Hinchcliffe BHP productions.
Dickie Davies is an absolute legend, his voice overs on the rally coverage was really brilliant. Always used to amused me to watch the grey patch in his hair get progressively larger over the years and his famous moustache thin out.

coppice

8,564 posts

143 months

Friday 23rd September 2016
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Modern rallying is a travesty of what it used to be- and I know because I was there to see rallying's glory years , like many others on this thread . And yes I have seen recent WRC stuff - and the fact is that it may be fast but it sounds rubbish and the cars don't go sideways . Speed per se is never the only thing that matters in motor sport.

Add in limitless access, a huge number of stages and 200 car plus entries on the RAC,add diversity of engine and drivetrain configurations (not just farty little turbo in line fours) and it was bloody heaven- especially when you could see a Vatanen or a Mikkola just feet away

Jerry Can

4,424 posts

222 months

Friday 23rd September 2016
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there's a lot of misty eyed bks on this thread. Rallying has had to change, you simply can't have 5 day marathons due to health and safety. Imagine the outcry if a rally driver crashed either on or off stage due to tiredness. Also a 600 mile stage rally would cost a clubman something like £10k just to enter. It's simply not feasible any more.

The new cars will be great - spectacular even.

About the only change I would make is the removal of the cloverleaf format so that the rally can venture further afield and maybe increase stage mileage to 300 with less repeats. But all that would add cost, which your average clubman would struggle to fund.

And this is coming from someone who spectated in the 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's. It is a product of it's time.

coppice

8,564 posts

143 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
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I agree the old format could not be replicated now but please don't try to tell me it wasn't a far better sport in the 70s and 80s than it is now. Not misty eyed - plenty of stuff back then was rubbish - but in the case of rallying it's just hard fact- in spectator numbers, profile, coverage, diversity of cars , accessibility and number of entries. The spectacle is more a subjective thing but the glory days of Gp B have yet to be surpassed in my view- and I think I am not alone in that.

sanf

673 posts

171 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
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Alex Langheck said:
Jerry Can said:
Modern WRC is good and next year should be amazing with the regs allowing much more powerful cars. WRC is ace, and far better than the drone - athon that is F1
So good that it receives the least interest of all the major series..... wink

The current WRCars are the fastest rally cars through a stage we’ve ever seen. The ‘problem’ is they don’t appear fast; there’s very little drama. Actually live stage side, they’re fantastic – but on the official WRC TV coverage they don’t seem that way.

The cars aren't the problem; its the woeful promotion of the sport; it's invisible.

Edited by Alex Langheck on Monday 19th September 10:34
Spot on, agree 100% with that.

The current cars, and next years cars are awesome, especially actually on the stage, even a well driven R5 car is good - this years BRC has been a testament to that.

The success of the mid 90's combined with health and safety changes has had a huge effect on rallying. It's main publicity has often been bad news stories. It really shouldn't be under estimated the impact the incident on the Jim Clark a couple of years ago has had on UK rallying specifically. Big changes have had to be made, and part of that is making sure too many spectators don't turn up. Some club events are even going non spectator, due to the amount of extra work organisers have to do planning for spectators - hence the rise in circuit based rallying. At least the circuits are set up for large numbers of people, so the risk assessment if far more straight forward. Forests, farms tracks, old airfields are far harder to manage.

Outside the UK the FIA does seem to be slightly lost and confused on the types of events the WRC is running - mainly because they want to extend the geographic calendar, but teams are pushing back against more than 12/13 events a year. So while greater endurance has been pushed over the past few years, even this week the discussion has been about reducing the events to 1 1/2 days to fit more into the calendar, or go to the dreaded rotation policy again.

The main element of endurance over the past few years hasn't been more days/more stages, but a reduction is servicing - the Saturday on rally GB has no main service between the two loops - meaning the drivers have to balance this with speed. However part of that is lost on the spectators.

The missing bit (I believe) is that part of allure of the 80's and even up to the mid 90's WRC was following the events. Planning where you were going to go, throwing supplies into the car/van and heading off on an adventure.

How many stages can be fitted in each day?
Which stage shall we watch the top 20 cars before heading off to the next stage?
Which stage shall we watch all 120 cars through?
How far shall we walk into the stage?
Where are we sleeping in the car?
Where are cars likely to service - which farm yards?? Then if you spot them pull over and go and have a good look round.

All of that made spectators feel part of the event, it was obvious who the other spectators were - often heading off in different directions (we learnt early on, not to follow other people, as they were often doing different stages/activities). Plan the event & spectating route, then off you go. Also paying £10 per car in the stage car park.

In todays more crowded world perhaps the idea of 100,000-200,000 cars charging round the countryside doesn't appeal, the chaos caused in mid 90's in Wales when competitors got stuck in amongst spectators didn't go in-noticed. With the cloverleaf format that will always be a challenge. The idea of having events stop over in different cities does appeal to the spectators, but not the manufacturers, the service area that Hyundai et all take to each event is testament to that. On top that finding volunteers to marshal and man stages also seems a challenge - especially as they now have to be 'qualified' marshals, so by double running stages at least that effectively halves the number of people needed over 6/8 individual stages.

For next year the cars are looking awesome, with VW, Citroen, Hyundai, Toyota & Ford all likely to be running 2-3 cars there is the possibility of 15 WRC cars on some rounds. The FIA just need to improve the promoting of the events - the live coverage on BTSport is good and a start. I still love rallying, am involved as a competitor, marshal and organiser. Each year I feel optimistic and hope the following year will fulfil the promise - we're not quite there yet, there is still a slight 'empty' feel as the year draws to a close, however this year the run of 6 winners on 6 events did help to show how competitive it's becoming.

Next year should be fun - hopefully more people will come out and watch.woohoo

Alex Langheck

835 posts

128 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
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Good post Sanf! Lots of good points raised.

I'm not overly optimistic about next year. As said many times the current cars are fast enough. So why are we getting even more powerful cars? Speeds and stage times could be scary.

With added power they've added bigger wings = more downforce, plus better diffs.......And seemingly cars that appear as if on rails. That's not what is wanted, or needed.

They needed to be quite revolutionary; 350-370 BHP through the rear wheels, limit suspension travel, harder compound tyres, etc Try something new.

We're basically getting more of the same. We've been here before. The new 1.6T WRCars in 2011 were to be a new start, and that was yet another false dawn.


And when you hear the Rallies commissioner talking about events of 1.5 days you just despair. We don't need more generic WRC events. We need less, but more iconic events; all differing in their challenge. Events of 2,3,4 days......


They keep repeating their bizarre ideas and wondering why they never work - also known as insanity. In the last 15+ years we've seen all kinds of wacky/ mad ideas. Why? Because they don't know what the WRC is meant to be.....What we currently have is WRC-lite.

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
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sanf said:
In todays more crowded world perhaps the idea of 100,000-200,000 cars charging round the countryside doesn't appeal
No danger of that anymore......

The invisibility of the WRC in the UK was discussed a month or so ago on Midweek Motorsport.

Jerry Can

4,424 posts

222 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
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ArnageWRC said:
No danger of that anymore......

The invisibility of the WRC in the UK was discussed a month or so ago on Midweek Motorsport.
you say that, and I thought so too, but actually a Sunday run of the 'mickey mouse' stages I think would be hugely popular. It would be somewhere to go. Something to do with the kids on a Sunday. Coupled with motor shows in the ground or beer fests, or pop concerts you could easily see 30k people in each stage.

However you'd have to run a Sunday loop like the 1980's and promote it. It's got to come to the people,a nd visit their town. However I do wonder whether the councils of today would allow a rally in Sutton Park, or Trentham Gardens. That might be a bigger issue.

coppice

8,564 posts

143 months

Sunday 25th September 2016
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Most of us wouldn't cross the road to watch Mickey Mouse Sutton (or Clumber, Harewood ,Duncombe et al ). What I rather miss is wandering miles into Dalby or Kielder and finding my own sequence of bends to be shared with a few others who made the effort . I understand I will now be told where to watch from in an enclosure guarded by a marshal SWAT team. Sod that.

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Sunday 25th September 2016
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coppice said:
Most of us wouldn't cross the road to watch Mickey Mouse Sutton (or Clumber, Harewood ,Duncombe et al ).
While that is probably true, they did serve a purpose - and were pretty successful.

Family friendly stages all around the country, (mainly the midlands, north west, etc) with food, toilets, commentary, etc everything for the novice, less hardened 'casual' spectator. I seem to remember they even had stages sponsored by commercial backers......

They most importantly took the sport to the people. No long drive across to North Wales if you want WRC action.....

As Jerry Can has said something like that is needed again. We have had Chirk Castle on RallyGB recently, but that is only 1 stage; you really need quite a few for full effect.

DelicaL400

516 posts

110 months

Sunday 25th September 2016
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coppice said:
What I rather miss is wandering miles into Dalby or Kielder and finding my own sequence of bends to be shared with a few others who made the effort . I understand I will now be told where to watch from in an enclosure guarded by a marshal SWAT team. Sod that.
I'm exactly the same. A big part of the enjoyment for me was finding out route info and schedules, planning where to go and how to get there, meeting up with mates and heading off to places away from the crowds. Obviously it is amazing we weren't all killed several times through not having a nanny marshal to tell us what to do.

acer12

959 posts

173 months

Monday 26th September 2016
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rossub said:
So many household names in that line up...... I can't name a single current WRC rally driver. Sad days frown
Then you cant call yourself a motorsport fan, a Brit has won several rallies in the last 24 months and you can't even name him?

Cant understand why people can't enjoy something for what it is rather than having to bash something else. Same st when someone posts an old BTCC photo, all the experts appear out of the woodwork saying modern era is rubbish yet will be sure to stick in a comment that they haven't watched it in 10 years

sanf

673 posts

171 months

Monday 26th September 2016
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DelicaL400 said:
coppice said:
What I rather miss is wandering miles into Dalby or Kielder and finding my own sequence of bends to be shared with a few others who made the effort . I understand I will now be told where to watch from in an enclosure guarded by a marshal SWAT team. Sod that.
I'm exactly the same. A big part of the enjoyment for me was finding out route info and schedules, planning where to go and how to get there, meeting up with mates and heading off to places away from the crowds. Obviously it is amazing we weren't all killed several times through not having a nanny marshal to tell us what to do.
The Chirk Castle stage of GB was so over subscribed 2 years ago they had crowd control issues!! It's been rammed for the past couple of years and does work really well, in getting new people to come and watch, in the style of the previous RAC's.

The speccy pens are a good example of how word of mouth has created a negative view. There are speccy pens and people do watch from them - they are masrshalled and generally close to car parks - to cater for the average fan who may be out with the family for the day, so they serve a purpose.

I've never watched from a pen - always wonder off into the stage, and found the sequence of corners....as do many others. While some marshals are a little cautious, most are brilliant - be polite, acknowledge them and listen to what is said, most are more than happy with that. When I'm marshalling I always help spectators get to where they are heading, and generally act in a fair manner. If your organised and in stage early it's still easy to wonder off and find yourself in amongst an empty forest having a great time. thumbup