Audi to end their WEC programme....off to.....Formula E
Discussion
struttob said:
The big problem with Formula E is that it does not work on a proper RACING CIRCUIT, the street races that they have now make the cars "look" fast but in reality they are (currently anyway) VERY SLOW !
Imagine one of those at Silverstone it would just look plain silly.
Despite all the manufacturers in the series, it seems to me that the crowds (?) I have seen have been pitiful - not a sponsors or car manufacturers dream as would be required to sustain a championship.
So it will rely on TV cash to support it, and that means pay per view - would you pay to watch it ??
Bob
They are only a second slower than an F3 car around Donington (without the benefit of slicks) how fast would they have to be before people stop moaning? I don't want them to move away form the street circuits onto toy tracks.Imagine one of those at Silverstone it would just look plain silly.
Despite all the manufacturers in the series, it seems to me that the crowds (?) I have seen have been pitiful - not a sponsors or car manufacturers dream as would be required to sustain a championship.
So it will rely on TV cash to support it, and that means pay per view - would you pay to watch it ??
Bob
Those talking about viewing figures: I was at the HK race as I work as a consultant for FE. The race was sold out weeks in advance. They had the biggest Emotion Club yet for high end hospitality hosting 3000people. The world wide TV audience is massive. As for the person who said FE had only raised 3m in sponsorship?? I would love to know where they got that figure from as it's complete fiction.
The cars are very fast and getting faster. Some of the new circuits this season like New York will be fantastic.
I have heard rumours about other manufacturers and new circuits which will further enhance the brand.
The cars are very fast and getting faster. Some of the new circuits this season like New York will be fantastic.
I have heard rumours about other manufacturers and new circuits which will further enhance the brand.
MG CHRIS said:
vz-r_dave said:
AnotherClarkey said:
vz-r_dave said:
one make electric engine.
Are you quite sure?
tishAnotherClarkey said:
struttob said:
The big problem with Formula E is that it does not work on a proper RACING CIRCUIT, the street races that they have now make the cars "look" fast but in reality they are (currently anyway) VERY SLOW !
Imagine one of those at Silverstone it would just look plain silly.
Despite all the manufacturers in the series, it seems to me that the crowds (?) I have seen have been pitiful - not a sponsors or car manufacturers dream as would be required to sustain a championship.
So it will rely on TV cash to support it, and that means pay per view - would you pay to watch it ??
Bob
They are only a second slower than an F3 car around Donington (without the benefit of slicks) how fast would they have to be before people stop moaning?Imagine one of those at Silverstone it would just look plain silly.
Despite all the manufacturers in the series, it seems to me that the crowds (?) I have seen have been pitiful - not a sponsors or car manufacturers dream as would be required to sustain a championship.
So it will rely on TV cash to support it, and that means pay per view - would you pay to watch it ??
Bob
I think you've answered your own question.
I know I keep banging on about this, but why is Formula E a single-seater F1-Lite formula? It is dull, and the cars do resemble the kind of thing you'd get at a funfair.
What Formula E should be, is a silhouette Saloon Car series, with proper racing car underpinnings which can be controlled by the series organisers to ensure performance parity.
The best thing about electric vehicles is the ridiculous acceleration. The sight of an E-Golf versus an E-Audi versus an E-Prius versus anything else you like, door-handling around street circuits in a drag race between corners, would be truly spectacular! Every manufacturer will have full electric cars within the next couple of years, and that would be the proviso, i.e. you can only compete with your e-vehicle profile.
Manufacturer interest should be huge if you control the performance parity issue. Spectators will love it, and it's a massive marketing opportunity for car makers. It'd be like E-Nascar.
Or, you can stick with the funfair go-karts.........
What Formula E should be, is a silhouette Saloon Car series, with proper racing car underpinnings which can be controlled by the series organisers to ensure performance parity.
The best thing about electric vehicles is the ridiculous acceleration. The sight of an E-Golf versus an E-Audi versus an E-Prius versus anything else you like, door-handling around street circuits in a drag race between corners, would be truly spectacular! Every manufacturer will have full electric cars within the next couple of years, and that would be the proviso, i.e. you can only compete with your e-vehicle profile.
Manufacturer interest should be huge if you control the performance parity issue. Spectators will love it, and it's a massive marketing opportunity for car makers. It'd be like E-Nascar.
Or, you can stick with the funfair go-karts.........
Vitorio said:
If Toyota gets their LM24 win they might bow out in favor of their other motorsports programs, having checked the box, and Porsche will leave when they are done extending their wins lead, or possible right after toyota bows out.
A cynical man would think this just killed LMP1.
The more interesting question is what will happen to LMP1 in 2018, new set of regulations requiring the manufacturers to invest again in new car and PU concepts together with basically F1 sized budgets. A cynical man would think this just killed LMP1.
Audi announcing no 2017 entry is surely more Audi not wanting to run the race programme for the another year of not winning with the wrong PU concept. I would have expected development of the R18 2017 to be basically done and the cost of racing it to low vs the development spend.
Audi have been clear that Audi Sport is not downsizing in terms of people and 300ish involved in their various programmes most WEC must be up to something FE even with some development probably isn't it.
Even for '18 the FE batteries and chassis are to remain spec items gearboxes and motors are not $100m+ motorsport R&D items so the bigger question becomes where is the vast Audi Sport budget going to be spent?
Is electric really the future? It is not as green as the hype suggests and no matter how many batteries you pack in they have limitations in racing and the real world. It is a stop gap until hydrogen power is more readily available. The technology is already there.
in fact there was nearly a hydrogen powered entrant in garage 56 at Lemans a couple of years ago.
Now if Audi built a LMP1 hydrogen Lemans winner what would that say about innovation and driving the future towards us at a more rapid pace.
I have enough trouble charging my phone, ipad, laptop, mp3 player and jyst about everything else you buy nowdays without worrying if ive got the right charging cable for my car as well.
in fact there was nearly a hydrogen powered entrant in garage 56 at Lemans a couple of years ago.
Now if Audi built a LMP1 hydrogen Lemans winner what would that say about innovation and driving the future towards us at a more rapid pace.
I have enough trouble charging my phone, ipad, laptop, mp3 player and jyst about everything else you buy nowdays without worrying if ive got the right charging cable for my car as well.
struttob said:
The big problem with Formula E is that it does not work on a proper RACING CIRCUIT, the street races that they have now make the cars "look" fast but in reality they are (currently anyway) VERY SLOW !
Imagine one of those at Silverstone it would just look plain silly.
Despite all the manufacturers in the series, it seems to me that the crowds (?) I have seen have been pitiful - not a sponsors or car manufacturers dream as would be required to sustain a championship.
So it will rely on TV cash to support it, and that means pay per view - would you pay to watch it ??
Bob
Everything that isn't an F1 car looks slow at Silverstone, especially on TV. Modern wide open circuits may be very safe but they remove any sensation of speed. I don't know how narrow street tracks avoid the safety issue but they seem to manage, and being in the middle of a city is far more convenient for the casual spectator. Imagine one of those at Silverstone it would just look plain silly.
Despite all the manufacturers in the series, it seems to me that the crowds (?) I have seen have been pitiful - not a sponsors or car manufacturers dream as would be required to sustain a championship.
So it will rely on TV cash to support it, and that means pay per view - would you pay to watch it ??
Bob
mad4amanda said:
Have to say that close up and ok I was a bit closer than a spectator they feel faster.
I also think it is aimed at non motorsport fans who would not realise the difference?
Fantastic point. All the motorsport fans in this thread need to consider that FE's outside the conventional motorsport bubble and that's why it's doing well. I also think it is aimed at non motorsport fans who would not realise the difference?
New eyes, new marketing opportunities, no wonder OEM's are flocking to it.
24lemons said:
Problem is that to the casual observer, Formula E cars look like F1 cars so there's a pre conceived expectation as to its performance. When you see them racing at what appears to be something similar to Safety Car pace, it is more than a little underwhelming.
Agreed. On a "proper" circuit there would be absolutely no Wow factor, and it would be impossible to promote. The current calendar reflects the cars that they have and the overall approach for the series (taking F1 on isn't going to work).ribiero said:
mad4amanda said:
Have to say that close up and ok I was a bit closer than a spectator they feel faster.
I also think it is aimed at non motorsport fans who would not realise the difference?
Fantastic point. All the motorsport fans in this thread need to consider that FE's outside the conventional motorsport bubble and that's why it's doing well. I also think it is aimed at non motorsport fans who would not realise the difference?
New eyes, new marketing opportunities, no wonder OEM's are flocking to it.
Redlake27 said:
They have chosen to race on road tyres rather than slicks. It would probably be faster than an F3 car on slicks, but that isn't the point. The performance of the car is spectacular enough for the small city circuits that they have built, and the car can slide around on road tyres.
They wanted the tyre development to be directly relevant to electric road cars hence the street circuits, rim diameter and tread.AnotherClarkey said:
Redlake27 said:
They have chosen to race on road tyres rather than slicks. It would probably be faster than an F3 car on slicks, but that isn't the point. The performance of the car is spectacular enough for the small city circuits that they have built, and the car can slide around on road tyres.
They wanted the tyre development to be directly relevant to electric road cars hence the street circuits, rim diameter and tread.Hang on - that might just be more fun
rollo said:
I know I keep banging on about this, but why is Formula E a single-seater F1-Lite formula? It is dull, and the cars do resemble the kind of thing you'd get at a funfair.
There are alternative all-electric championships that already exist/ are under development for people to moan about;Electric GT:
e-Touring:
I'm not misty eyed about Audi's exit from WEC. It is not like the sad demise of Lotus or Brabham in F1. I feel we are seeing the end of a marketing strategy.
I love Le Mans and WEC, but for at least half of those 18 years , I felt that Audi had entered an F1 level team amongst a group of professional privateers. That was their prerogative, and it proved to be a wise choice. They were the big fish in a small pond and by focusing on a near-guaranteed win they didn't suffer the ignominy that BMW, Toyota and Honda did by spending in F1 instead.
In the last three years, Porsche and Toyota have made it an arms race (exceeding even the intensity of the Peugeot rivalry) and budgets have increased. The return on investment is no longer there.
Throw in dieselgate, which is a scandal almost without parallel in the auto industry, and then consider that the Le Mans programme was a big part of the (now discredited) 'diesel is good' strategy, and I don't think Audi had any other option but to go.
I love Le Mans and WEC, but for at least half of those 18 years , I felt that Audi had entered an F1 level team amongst a group of professional privateers. That was their prerogative, and it proved to be a wise choice. They were the big fish in a small pond and by focusing on a near-guaranteed win they didn't suffer the ignominy that BMW, Toyota and Honda did by spending in F1 instead.
In the last three years, Porsche and Toyota have made it an arms race (exceeding even the intensity of the Peugeot rivalry) and budgets have increased. The return on investment is no longer there.
Throw in dieselgate, which is a scandal almost without parallel in the auto industry, and then consider that the Le Mans programme was a big part of the (now discredited) 'diesel is good' strategy, and I don't think Audi had any other option but to go.
55minutes of Alan McNish talking to Marshall Pruett about Audi's decision to leave WEC, some memories of WEC and Formula-E.
http://marshallpruett.podbean.com/e/67-allan-mcnis...
enjoy!
http://marshallpruett.podbean.com/e/67-allan-mcnis...
enjoy!
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