Volkswagen WRC
Discussion
I think part of the problem is that the modern regs with the hatchback and supermini based cars have basically been owned by Loeb and then Ogier. VW have won 42 of the 51 events since 2013, Ogier won 31 of those, not much competition. Loeb won 78 events and 9 championships with Citroen between 2002-2013. It's gone from, 'Oh, Loeb won again' to 'Oh, Ogier won again'.
Oliver-2optb said:
McRAE started autotest in his teens, no doubt he mucked in with the local club.
One of the problems now is there is not enough people in grass roots, driving, marshalling etc.....
This is the issue in the UK.One of the problems now is there is not enough people in grass roots, driving, marshalling etc.....
How many under 21's can actually afford to drive let alone have a competition car, as regs now mean it's very hard to do what we all did back in the late 70's/early 80's and use our daily as our weekend comp car!!
The amount of under 25's I've worked with in the past 10 years that even have a driving licence is shockingly low compared to when I was in my late teens/early 20's.
I passed my test 4 months after my 17th birthday, and within another 2 months, I was competing in my first club road rally, having installed comp seats, better shocks, harness, cage, Cibie's, sump guard etc to my mini, that also had to serve as my get to work daily driver.
T'was a different world then.
The few that maybe can do things these days probably are more likely to gravitate to the drifting scene than rallying.
You only have to see how many local MSA motor clubs have folded through lack of membership in the past 20 years.
Oliver-2optb said:
How can you complain as a few have ' I didn't know it was on' there wasn't enough advertising.
You misinterpret.Rather than "no-one told me it was on", it's more that the sport (the "content" from the network/advertisers' point of view) isn't compelling enough to attract attention, therefore exposure and, ultimately, advertising revenue.
Rallying, and motorsport in general, also faces the fact that it is inherently a very expensive sport, competing with other sports that are only expensive due to rampant rights value inflation. 30+ years ago there was no Premier League, no MMC/UFC and even F1's money-making machine was but a fraction of what it became.
Rallying was up against wrestling and whatever was on at Kempton Park so even if the racing is still just as good/compelling that was a much easier sell
aeropilot said:
The amount of under 25's I've worked with in the past 10 years that even have a driving licence is shockingly low compared to when I was in my late teens/early 20's.
I work for a global motor industry company and the number of under 30's male and female in our office who haven't a driving license is quite alarming. They'd sooner have the latest smart phone. My generation learnt to drive at 17-18 so we could go out with our physical mates, they sit at home and skype to people they've never physically met. The 'facebook' generation do not want to meet in pubs, join clubs( car etc) go to night clubs. Note the previous 3 mentioned have all seen their numbers decimated in the last 10-15 years.The world is changing and the allure of the car to the youth of today is not what it was to my generation. Our top trumps was 0-60 time, how fast it would go and the car magazines of the day told us that information. If I asked the young in our office, their top trumps would be, what is the infotainment system like, can I get hotspot wifi and bluetooth for my streamed music. That's not rally material or any kind of motor sport material.
Domf said:
I work for a global motor industry company and the number of under 30's male and female in our office who haven't a driving license is quite alarming. They'd sooner have the latest smart phone. My generation learnt to drive at 17-18 so we could go out with our physical mates, they sit at home and skype to people they've never physically met. The 'facebook' generation do not want to meet in pubs, join clubs( car etc) go to night clubs. Note the previous 3 mentioned have all seen their numbers decimated in the last 10-15 years.
The world is changing and the allure of the car to the youth of today is not what it was to my generation. Our top trumps was 0-60 time, how fast it would go and the car magazines of the day told us that information. If I asked the young in our office, their top trumps would be, what is the infotainment system like, can I get hotspot wifi and bluetooth for my streamed music. That's not rally material or any kind of motor sport material.
Spot on. My 19 year old son couldn't care about leaning to drive. But he is at university and he does go to clubs and pubs. The world is changing and the allure of the car to the youth of today is not what it was to my generation. Our top trumps was 0-60 time, how fast it would go and the car magazines of the day told us that information. If I asked the young in our office, their top trumps would be, what is the infotainment system like, can I get hotspot wifi and bluetooth for my streamed music. That's not rally material or any kind of motor sport material.
Allyc85 said:
Rubbish, car parks were rammed at the weekend with stages like Gartheniog full up. You have to be at a stage at least 2 hours before to get parked a reasonable distance from the stage. Also there were plenty of "lads" there drinking, even early in the morning. Wonder how many of them drove home too.
My humblest apologies Ali, I completely forgot to respond to your kind email regarding accommodation for the 2017 Monte :-( I'll respond soon :-)Your comments about spectator numbers are interesting, but I suspect don't tell the whole story of the decline of the UK WRC event.
Rally GB of old contained 1or even 2 days of Mickey Mouse stages. More often than not they were rammed. After those the competitors headed to the stages proper.
In 1983 the RAC comprised 59 (I'll repeat that, 59) stages in total. Most were very well attended bearing in mind the almost "underground" nature of the event. Sure those in local motor clubs knew when and where the stages were, the rest relied on the likes of Motoring News, Autosport and Cars and Car Conversions, or at a push Motor and Autocar for the itinerary.
How many stages did last weekend's Rally Wales/GB have ? 24 ? Most (all ?) run twice ?
It was clear some years ago that the format of the modern WRC event in the UK was designed to deter all but the most committed spectators from following the event around as was the norm back in the early 80's when I first started spectating.
Having to arrive at the stage at least 2 hours prior to the first cars going through, coupled with poor access, inconsiderate parking by a few and often difficult spectator area egress, there's little or no incentive to jump from one to stage to another, for most it's far easier to sit tight and see the same stage twice. So of course stages like Gartheniog will be appear to be rammed, regrettably that doesn't mean the event was well attended, merely that on the whole the individuals who bothered to attend were packed into the few stages there are, and they tend to stay there for duration.
Slippydiff said:
Allyc85 said:
Rubbish, car parks were rammed at the weekend with stages like Gartheniog full up. You have to be at a stage at least 2 hours before to get parked a reasonable distance from the stage. Also there were plenty of "lads" there drinking, even early in the morning. Wonder how many of them drove home too.
My humblest apologies Ali, I completely forgot to respond to your kind email regarding accommodation for the 2017 Monte :-( I'll respond soon :-)Your comments about spectator numbers are interesting, but I suspect don't tell the whole story of the decline of the UK WRC event.
Rally GB of old contained 1or even 2 days of Mickey Mouse stages. More often than not they were rammed. After those the competitors headed to the stages proper.
In 1983 the RAC comprised 59 (I'll repeat that, 59) stages in total. Most were very well attended bearing in mind the almost "underground" nature of the event. Sure those in local motor clubs knew when and where the stages were, the rest relied on the likes of Motoring News, Autosport and Cars and Car Conversions, or at a push Motor and Autocar for the itinerary.
How many stages did last weekend's Rally Wales/GB have ? 24 ? Most (all ?) run twice ?
It was clear some years ago that the format of the modern WRC event in the UK was designed to deter all but the most committed spectators from following the event around as was the norm back in the early 80's when I first started spectating.
Having to arrive at the stage at least 2 hours prior to the first cars going through, coupled with poor access, inconsiderate parking by a few and often difficult spectator area egress, there's little or no incentive to jump from one to stage to another, for most it's far easier to sit tight and see the same stage twice. So of course stages like Gartheniog will be appear to be rammed, regrettably that doesn't mean the event was well attended, merely that on the whole the individuals who bothered to attend were packed into the few stages there are, and they tend to stay there for duration.
But as people used to follow the rally the numbers could be the same i.e. each stage has 200 people but they are in the whole the same people at all the other stages.
So is it lots less attendended now or just seems it
They can't do 59 stages now, guess due to cost and conservation. Llandegla a few years back charged £15k for shakedown and qualifying. Thinking they'd make a mint from it, they didn't it cost them that to put the track right. That's 3 miles. So it makes sense to re run same stages.
We were also at Gartheniog, and arrived early to be told the last car park section of a 1.5 Miles was full and best to walk over the hill. At 1st i though it was marshalls using a nice spot to turn cars around and manage traffic. But walking back along the 1.5 miles it was obvious it was 1.5miles of cars that camped over night.
Friend arrived around 45 min after us and was 1.5 miles further down
We get there early to walk beyond the pens and find that banks are busy. Couldn't comment on how busy it is in main sections as when we walk through its either early or late
I also think Rallying is and will always be a diehard fan base, if its 20 people or 20 million.
Any sport that requires an early start, no seating position, out in the elements, no access to any information what's going on apart from how the cars look in both appearance and driving have to be diehard.
I persoanly love the WRC cars.
My favorite are the Group B's and grew up with rise of McRae. So hearing a scooby through the Welsh forests is amazing, but these don't half look big today and so slow compared to the modern WRC. But we get to see them all in one day with the WRC, international and national classes.
My 2 daughters come along, and must say i do see a lot off families, groups of lads, my generation and the old timers, so there looks to be a future fans base.
Domf said:
I work for a global motor industry company and the number of under 30's male and female in our office who haven't a driving license is quite alarming. They'd sooner have the latest smart phone. My generation learnt to drive at 17-18 so we could go out with our physical mates, they sit at home and skype to people they've never physically met. The 'facebook' generation do not want to meet in pubs, join clubs( car etc) go to night clubs. Note the previous 3 mentioned have all seen their numbers decimated in the last 10-15 years.
The world is changing and the allure of the car to the youth of today is not what it was to my generation. Our top trumps was 0-60 time, how fast it would go and the car magazines of the day told us that information. If I asked the young in our office, their top trumps would be, what is the infotainment system like, can I get hotspot wifi and bluetooth for my streamed music. That's not rally material or any kind of motor sport material.
When we were kids there wasn't any question, we'd learn to drive ASAP then get the best car we can and then we get as good as possible in it, we had no speed cameras or black boxes. I used to do 120MPH on the M62 in the mid to late 90s in my Subaru, these days where can you actually go? Anyone under 30 with a moderate amount of power has to have a black box, so what's the point in getting a quick car anymore? They're taking the skill out of driving.The world is changing and the allure of the car to the youth of today is not what it was to my generation. Our top trumps was 0-60 time, how fast it would go and the car magazines of the day told us that information. If I asked the young in our office, their top trumps would be, what is the infotainment system like, can I get hotspot wifi and bluetooth for my streamed music. That's not rally material or any kind of motor sport material.
I think the lack of interest in WRC at the moment might be a bit of a UK thing. Pretty much every WRC test in Europe I've attended has had dozens of bobble-hatters turn up, despite typically being in the middle of fecking nowhere and in some cases deliberately unpublicised so found only through word of mouth.
You have to have a fair interest in rally to take a day off to stand in the cold/heat for a full day peering into a service tent from a distance, and there's no shortage of them. Some of them even turn up in cars registered in different countries so come a long way to do it.
Perhaps it's just a small core of die-hard fans, but I've never seen a UK plate other than mine at a test or met any Brits who would care enough to go and do that.
You have to have a fair interest in rally to take a day off to stand in the cold/heat for a full day peering into a service tent from a distance, and there's no shortage of them. Some of them even turn up in cars registered in different countries so come a long way to do it.
Perhaps it's just a small core of die-hard fans, but I've never seen a UK plate other than mine at a test or met any Brits who would care enough to go and do that.
Another huge issue is the amount the forestry commission charge to have a forest used by a rally event.
This is why the same stages are being used time and time again during events to cut the costs.
Even if the FIA wanted to hold a old style RAC Rally it would not be possible with the charges now.
Unfortunately there are more and more reasons why rallying is having a hard time.
I would not be surprised to see no Rally Wales in the future.
This is why the same stages are being used time and time again during events to cut the costs.
Even if the FIA wanted to hold a old style RAC Rally it would not be possible with the charges now.
Unfortunately there are more and more reasons why rallying is having a hard time.
I would not be surprised to see no Rally Wales in the future.
redlancer said:
Any sport that requires an early start, no seating position, out in the elements, no access to any information what's going on apart from how the cars look in both appearance and driving have to be diehard.
The Wookie said:
I think the lack of interest in WRC at the moment might be a bit of a UK thing. Pretty much every WRC test in Europe I've attended has had dozens of bobble-hatters turn up, despite typically being in the middle of fecking nowhere and in some cases deliberately unpublicised so found only through word of mouth.
You have to have a fair interest in rally to take a day off to stand in the cold/heat for a full day peering into a service tent from a distance, and there's no shortage of them. Some of them even turn up in cars registered in different countries so come a long way to do it.
Precisely why I've given up on the British rally scene. Any WRC events I want to spectate on have been in Europe (or further afield) for the last 15 years.You have to have a fair interest in rally to take a day off to stand in the cold/heat for a full day peering into a service tent from a distance, and there's no shortage of them. Some of them even turn up in cars registered in different countries so come a long way to do it.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Another huge issue is the amount the forestry commission charge to have a forest used by a rally event.
This is why the same stages are being used time and time again during events to cut the costs.
The cost per mile is the same whether it's a stage that's been used before or a new stage. The only reduction is if you use the same road twice on one event. This is why the same stages are being used time and time again during events to cut the costs.
The lack of variation in stages is down to some venues not being available at all for rallying now and some where the FC/NRW only want you using particular tracks in a forest.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Yves Matton not sitting on the fence is he...?'they are not french or world champions so i'm not interested'
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