The 2017 Rallying thread

The 2017 Rallying thread

Author
Discussion

Slippydiff

14,744 posts

222 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Allyc85 said:
Paddon is a liability because? Thursday's accident could happen to anyone on the Monte, even Ogier made a mistake on ice!
Not my words you understand.
Liability isn't the word I'd have used. I just don't rate him, end of. He appears to be another Chris Atkinson, no doubting his considerable talent, but an Ogier, Loeb etc he is not. He may come good, but he'll need to hone his Tarmac skills massively if he's to get a sniff of Ogier on the black stuff or win a WRC title.

tyrrell

1,670 posts

207 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
I am off to New Zealand for six weeks on holiday this Thursday, so just happened to be looking at a NZ site that had an interview with Paddon before last weeks Monte. Just listening to him made me think He will be the first to bin it on the event and sure enough he did.

So feel desperately sorry for all involved on Thursday night, just hope he manages to keep it on the island in Sweden.

Slippydiff

14,744 posts

222 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
tyrrell said:
I am off to New Zealand for six weeks on holiday this Thursday, so just happened to be looking at a NZ site that had an interview with Paddon before last weeks Monte. Just listening to him made me think He will be the first to bin it on the event and sure enough he did.

So feel desperately sorry for all involved on Thursday night, just hope he manages to keep it on the island in Sweden.
I'm deeply envious, you jammy g*t !! I spent 9 weeks over there in 2003. It's an amazing place thumbup

Paddon will be ok in Sweden, the snow banks are huge (unless you go straight through them...)

DelicaL400

516 posts

110 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
StangGT said:
Chaps,

I've never been to a rally before but I fancy going to the Pirelli Carlisle rally in April...

I was looking for a few pointers/tips for a complete Newbie?

cheers
Don't argue with marshals, don't stand in a stupid place, get there in plenty of time, wear suitable clothing and footwear etc. Spectator information will be on the event website nearer the time. With the safety guidelines that came into being last year you're discouraged from going anywhere other than the official spectator areas these days. You'll likely have to drive up a forest track to park so make sure your car isn't going to scrape its sump.

sanf

673 posts

171 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
StangGT said:
Chaps,

I've never been to a rally before but I fancy going to the Pirelli Carlisle rally in April...

I was looking for a few pointers/tips for a complete Newbie?

cheers
Really good rally to choose, quick and some lovely stages. I'm hoping to be out marshalling that weekend. For a complete newbie -

Use the event website for pointers, and deciding on which stages to go to.
Make sure you're well equipped with decent foot ware, coats, hats etc.
When you get to the stages, follow the marshals instructions, stay in main spectator areas and stay safe.

In the short term have a great day out, as you get more involved become more adventurous with planning and further walks into the woods - or even get yourself online, and sign-up to the MSA's marshals scheme.

Overall - get a plan, stick to it, it's easy to be distracted by other people and change plans - we learnt early on that's not always a good idea!!

Main think is have fun biggrin

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Allyc85 said:
tyrrell said:
Agree Paddon looks a liability, Meek desperately needs to get his act together, Sordo needs to go as well.

Edited by tyrrell on Monday 23 January 14:42
Paddon is a liability because? Thursday's accident could happen to anyone on the Monte, even Ogier made a mistake on ice!
Ogier made more mistakes than Meeke & Neuville; 3 off road excursions - yet got away without damaging the car - costing 40 - 50 seconds. Neuville ran ever so slightly wide - sadly for him there was a concrete block lying in wait = damaged suspension. Meeke understeered off line, not by much; and he to damaged his suspension. The luck/ lottery of Rally Monte-Carlo....

Blayney

2,948 posts

185 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Be prepared for the conditions!

If it looks like it's going to be cold and wet then lots of layers (you can always take them off), water proofs and wellies! Being wet and cold is NOT fun!

Get a camping chair to have a rest between stages.

Absolutely have a plan and stick to it as said above - nothing worse than dithering about what stages you are going to try and see. I don't know what that rally is like but if they are running some stages twice (morning and afternoon) sometimes it's better to just stick in that stage - if there's a decent entry it will keep you entertained all day.

Don't stand too close and don't stand on the outside of a bend whatever you do - try and give yourself something to hide behind if the unpredictable occurs! Trees don't tend to move much when cars hit them so they are a good bet!

Bring food to snack on and a warm drink always goes down well so a nice thermos.

Remember that you can keep walking and thinking "ooh it might be even better around this corner" but as far as you walk into a stage is as far as you have to walk back out again!

Looking at some videos of that particular rally it makes me think of a gravel epynt... it looks quite fast and open! So you can spectate from quite far back without missing anything which is good. Might be windy? So remember that will chill you down even more.

TL:DR

Plan
Appropriate clothing
Stay safe
Have fun!

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
I'll repeat what others have said; be prepared. In fact, treat it as a day out rambling/ walking/ hiking.....take the same equipment that you would for those activities and you'll be fine.

drmark

4,794 posts

185 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Blayney said:
Be prepared for the conditions!

If it looks like it's going to be cold and wet then lots of layers (you can always take them off), water proofs and wellies! Being wet and cold is NOT fun!

Get a camping chair to have a rest between stages.

Absolutely have a plan and stick to it as said above - nothing worse than dithering about what stages you are going to try and see. I don't know what that rally is like but if they are running some stages twice (morning and afternoon) sometimes it's better to just stick in that stage - if there's a decent entry it will keep you entertained all day.

Don't stand too close and don't stand on the outside of a bend whatever you do - try and give yourself something to hide behind if the unpredictable occurs! Trees don't tend to move much when cars hit them so they are a good bet!

Bring food to snack on and a warm drink always goes down well so a nice thermos.

Remember that you can keep walking and thinking "ooh it might be even better around this corner" but as far as you walk into a stage is as far as you have to walk back out again!

Looking at some videos of that particular rally it makes me think of a gravel epynt... it looks quite fast and open! So you can spectate from quite far back without missing anything which is good. Might be windy? So remember that will chill you down even more.

TL:DR

Plan
Appropriate clothing
Stay safe
Have fun!
Three most dangerous places to stand - outside of a corner, inside the corner 50 metres down the road (where those lower down the field who don't catch the oversteer often end up), and in a ditch. Best place (imo) is on entry to corners in the braking zone watching the good guys brake from astonishing speeds and set the car up. Masters.

Iva Barchetta

44,044 posts

162 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Watched the ch5 highlights earlier,not much said about the spectator death seeing as it seems not to have been hit by the Hyundai.
Pleased that Evans had a really good Saturday.

GravelBen

15,656 posts

229 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
ArnageWRC said:
Ogier made more mistakes than Meeke & Neuville; 3 off road excursions - yet got away without damaging the car - costing 40 - 50 seconds. Neuville ran ever so slightly wide - sadly for him there was a concrete block lying in wait = damaged suspension. Meeke understeered off line, not by much; and he to damaged his suspension. The luck/ lottery of Rally Monte-Carlo....
yes

My thoughts too, while Ogier is generally very good at knowing where to take risks and where to be more conservative, I think any of those 3 offs could easily have had an unseen rock and significant car damage.

Drive of the rally has to go to Tanak IMO, probably the only driver to be consistently fast without any real mistakes. That downhill run on the powerstage was impressively committed, though that may have been down to a clever/lucky tyre choice as much as anything.

Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 24th January 04:51

GravelBen

15,656 posts

229 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
He may come good, but he'll need to hone his Tarmac skills massively if he's to get a sniff of Ogier on the black stuff or win a WRC title.
He's only done about 10 tarmac rallies in his entire life IIRC (and 4 snow/ice - Sweden 3x and Monte once before this one), I don't think its fair to expect world champion pace and consistency on an unfamiliar surface quite that quickly. If you were watching WRC last year you will have seen how much he has already improved on tarmac.

Hopefully this weekend's crash doesn't hamper his confidence/commitment level too much on the next few rallies.

Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 24th January 04:56

Slippydiff

14,744 posts

222 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
GravelBen said:
He's only done about 10 tarmac rallies in his entire life IIRC (and 4 snow/ice - Sweden 3x and Monte once before this one), I don't think its fair to expect world champion pace and consistency on an unfamiliar surface quite that quickly. If you were watching WRC last year you will have seen how much he has already improved on tarmac.

Hopefully this weekend's crash doesn't hamper his confidence/commitment level too much on the next few rallies.

Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 24th January 04:56
That comes across as a tad defensive if you don't mind me saying as much GB.
I said he'll need to hone his Tarmac skills further, not that he's a useless, no hoper without a hint of talent on Tarmac.
Though saying that, it doesn't change the fact that I don't rate him as future World Champion material, nice bloke though he may be.
I may of course be wrong in what the future holds for him, but he'll have to beat Neuville, Ogier, and seemingly Tanak, and quite probably Evans and Breen, (not to mention a revitalised JML) if he's to get to the very top of the sport.

cannondale

210 posts

191 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
I'm with Ben on this one. I think Paddon has buckets of talent and to top it off he comes across as a thoroughly decent chap. Being a nice guy doesn't make you fast but I think that his relaxed attitude is another benefit.

I'm not sure how many stages he won last year, if any, but I'm certain on a number of occasions he was faster than his team mates. Happy to be proven wrong.

A change of manufacturer in the not too distant future might be the key to winning the championship but in the meantime he will be gaining vast amounts of experience from a manufacturer that is still learning as well.

Alex Langheck

835 posts

128 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
I'd like to see Hyundai enter Paddon in some European Tarmac events in the R5 car; it would benefit them both - whether that happens is another matter.

Allyc85

7,225 posts

185 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Alex Langheck said:
I'd like to see Hyundai enter Paddon in some European Tarmac events in the R5 car; it would benefit them both - whether that happens is another matter.
It is strange with Paddon, most drivers develop after such an amazing last stage win like his, but does seem to have gone a bit backwards. Gravelben makes a good point about his lack of experience on snow/tar, so we probably shouldn't be too harsh just yet.

It would be good for Hyundai for Paddon to drive the R5, as Abbring seems to keep on bending the car, and they could do with a different top level driver to develop it.

GravelBen

15,656 posts

229 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
cannondale said:
I'm not sure how many stages he won last year, if any, but I'm certain on a number of occasions he was faster than his team mates. Happy to be proven wrong.
2016 stats from EWRC - 12 stage wins (1 on tarmac), 1 rally win (9x top 5, 2x crashed out), 4th in championship.

Funny though - a year ago many were writing off Neuville as a lost cause after the bad run he had, and they seem to have gone quiet again now...

GravelBen

15,656 posts

229 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Alex Langheck said:
I'd like to see Hyundai enter Paddon in some European Tarmac events in the R5 car; it would benefit them both - whether that happens is another matter.
I agree, that would be a good idea. The key to improving his tarmac results now is probably experience more than coaching.

I did wonder if his Monte crash might possibly have been avoided if he had a more experienced gravel crew - Reeves isn't a bad driver himself (though more national standard than WRC) but being an Aussie I don't think he has much/any tarmac or snow experience, I guess Seb Marshall has had a bit more with Abbring.

Last year he had Liatti and Pons, experience coming out their ears.

Slippydiff

14,744 posts

222 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
GravelBen said:
2016 stats from EWRC - 12 stage wins (1 on tarmac), 1 rally win (9x top 5, 2x crashed out), 4th in championship.

Funny though - a year ago many were writing off Neuville as a lost cause after the bad run he had, and they seem to have gone quiet again now...
Neuville appeared to be suffering from the same brain f*rt behaviour that had affected Duval several years previously when he too had all the makings of being a top WRC driver. I know a former WRC navigator who knew Duval well, and said he was an arrogant little b*stard, and most team managers thought the same of him too.

I'm not sure anyone saw Neuville as a lost cause, more a case of he seemed to have hit the self destruct button and had fallen out with the management at Hyundai. There seemed to be a large amount of toys exiting prams going on in public on his part, which is never classy and unlikely to endear you to the team's management. Whether that was because he was in a bad place, or the new car just didn't suit him, I'd not know, but it appears someone sat him down and had a quiet word (or gave him a swift kick up the backside), either way it worked and his drive on the Monte was up there with Ogier's, Tanak's, Latvala's and Evans.

I suspect the new cars may suit some drivers better than others, hence they'll be more drivers challenging for wins in 2017, whether Paddon is one of them remains to be seen. As we know, the cream ALWAYS rises to the top. Let's see where this goes ....


GravelBen

15,656 posts

229 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Allyc85 said:
It is strange with Paddon, most drivers develop after such an amazing last stage win like his, but does seem to have gone a bit backwards. Gravelben makes a good point about his lack of experience on snow/tar, so we probably shouldn't be too harsh just yet.
I think it may be also that the win changed public/fan expectations more quickly than he anticipated, and that put extra pressure on to keep pushing harder. Apart from the two crashes, I think his results after the win were probably still as good as or better than many would have expected at the start of that season? (3-5-5-6-4-4-4)

From his comments on facebook etc he has had a long-term development plan well in advance, and that plan didn't really expect to win events in 2016 - it was more about gaining experience and consistent speed to have a more focussed push in 2017/18. His 2017 push hasn't started well though unfortunately!