RE: New WRC cars 'too fast' says FIA
Discussion
Who wanted more Aero and active Diffs?
A stupid idea if the max permited average speed per state was going to be exceeded.
Spectacle is what we want - rear wheel drive with loud non turbo engines and sideways driving.
As usual they got It all wrong.
A stupid idea if the max permited average speed per state was going to be exceeded.
Spectacle is what we want - rear wheel drive with loud non turbo engines and sideways driving.
As usual they got It all wrong.
Edited by rallycross on Thursday 16th February 22:33
Ralphthemouth said:
My 2 cents worth, they have just introduced a huge increase in power. Combined with other 'upgrades'. These cars are the fastest they've seen for many many years and as a result there's bound to be some teething troubles.
I am pretty sure these cars are the fastest world rally cars there ever been in terms of stage times. And maybe even quicker in outright acceleration than gr.B monsters thanks to modern transmissions.velocemitch said:
Rallying has always had a maximum speed for sections or stages, its how it works. The crew closest to that maximum speed across the event is the winner. In most situations in Stage Rallying the maximum average speed (which I believe is about 80mph on WRC) is achievable, so it is simply the fastest crew who wins.
As I understand there hasn't been a rule about average stage speed in WRC for many years. If there was they would have mentioned breaking that rule instead of just some vague non-specific reference to safety.velocemitch said:
I think most people are missing the point really.
I think anyone suggesting that average speed has any meaning whatsoever is missing the point. You could have a rally stage that is virtually flat out for 75% of its length, yet is full of hairpins for the other 25%, and that would be considered safe by the FIA, yet one where drivers aren't getting much above 100mph could be considered unsafe because there are no "slow" corners.If spectator areas are properly designed, and spectators respect those areas and safety instructions, there is no reason why those sorts of speeds are inherently unsafe. The bizarre thing is that Group B cars were incredibly fast in a straight line, but 30 years of technological improvements in 4WD, suspension, tyres, and aerodynamics means that modern cars - even before the 2017 rules - are probably quite a lot quicker in the corners. And not many crashes happen because a driver went too fast on a straight...
Antediluvian hat on; rallying hasn't been of much interest since the twilight glory years of Makinen, McRae and Burns et al.
Followed it religiously since the days of Roger Clark, in Ford Escorts, through Mikkola in the Audi Quattro, Toivonen in the S4, Sainz in the GT-Four and then the 3 names at the beginning of my ramble.
Now? It's just a 'meh' from me; like footballers, the drivers have got soft, no all-night stages etc, no spectators sipping steaming hot bovril on a mid-winter night etc etc.
Personally I don't care what people might say of my viewpoint, but I'm glad I got to watch the above drivers and their cars when WRC was in its pomp, not the pasteurised, sterilised version we get today...
Followed it religiously since the days of Roger Clark, in Ford Escorts, through Mikkola in the Audi Quattro, Toivonen in the S4, Sainz in the GT-Four and then the 3 names at the beginning of my ramble.
Now? It's just a 'meh' from me; like footballers, the drivers have got soft, no all-night stages etc, no spectators sipping steaming hot bovril on a mid-winter night etc etc.
Personally I don't care what people might say of my viewpoint, but I'm glad I got to watch the above drivers and their cars when WRC was in its pomp, not the pasteurised, sterilised version we get today...
rallycross said:
Who wanted more Aero and active Diffs?
Spectacle is what we want - rear wheel drive with loud non turbo engines and sideways driving.
Totally agree but its never going to happen while the manufactures only want to draw parallels with their little front wheel drive shopping cars. Ditto touring cars, but at least that does still have close racing. Last good rally car was Richard Burns Impreza - from an era when 4x4 still meant sideways.Spectacle is what we want - rear wheel drive with loud non turbo engines and sideways driving.
Edited by rallycross on Thursday 16th February 22:33
As a previous viewer of the WRC from the McRae days until Loeb won everything, I lost interest in the WRC because of the cars - they became not interesting and slow. So I was really pleased to learn that the new regulations would allow for more speed and more of a spectacle - even if the base cars are supermini's! I struggled to stay interested during the Monte however Sweden was brilliant, a real return to old times....one criticism I did have was that the cars still seem easy to drive.
If the FIA start restricting speed then WRC will again be doomed.
If the FIA start restricting speed then WRC will again be doomed.
spikyone said:
I think anyone suggesting that average speed has any meaning whatsoever is missing the point. You could have a rally stage that is virtually flat out for 75% of its length, yet is full of hairpins for the other 25%, and that would be considered safe by the FIA, yet one where drivers aren't getting much above 100mph could be considered unsafe because there are no "slow" corners.
If spectator areas are properly designed, and spectators respect those areas and safety instructions, there is no reason why those sorts of speeds are inherently unsafe. The bizarre thing is that Group B cars were incredibly fast in a straight line, but 30 years of technological improvements in 4WD, suspension, tyres, and aerodynamics means that modern cars - even before the 2017 rules - are probably quite a lot quicker in the corners. And not many crashes happen because a driver went too fast on a straight...
Exactly it's all to do with average speeds , Is it not partly the organisers of the event fault of the high average speed due to not putting elements in the stage to slow the cars down ? If spectator areas are properly designed, and spectators respect those areas and safety instructions, there is no reason why those sorts of speeds are inherently unsafe. The bizarre thing is that Group B cars were incredibly fast in a straight line, but 30 years of technological improvements in 4WD, suspension, tyres, and aerodynamics means that modern cars - even before the 2017 rules - are probably quite a lot quicker in the corners. And not many crashes happen because a driver went too fast on a straight...
I have seen over 100 on stage rally's in a standard engined Puma and I know Millington powered escorts on the same stage have been clocked at almost 150 . It's just a case of keeping the average down .
Yes rallying needs to be safe but also needs to grab the interest of the spectators. Rallying as a sport is dieing on its arse at the moment from grass routes to wrc . Msa are making it more expensive for the clubman and the FIA trying to slow the cars again.
It also doesn't help that there are no real drivers with a personality any more . Some one crashes they just stand there with there coat on . Where is someone like Colin who would fight tooth and nail to get the car fixed on a stage and make the end .
avenger286 said:
It also doesn't help that there are no real drivers with a personality any more . Some one crashes they just stand there with there coat on . Where is someone like Colin who would fight tooth and nail to get the car fixed on a stage and make the end .
Errr, Thierry Neville Monte Carlo 2017 :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyOmKz8Yh3A
Modern WRC events are three, day long sprint events now. The days of 5 day long marathon/endurance events where you could spend 30 minutes fixing a car in/at the end of a stage, and pull the time back over the next 3-4 days have long since gone (more's the pity) added to which the cars are driven pretty much flat out on every stage, lose 3 minutes changing a puncture and the modern WRC event is all but lost now.
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