Formula E dead and buried in the UK?
Discussion
radical78 said:
f1 teams used to have a spare car and drivers often swopped cars because they were so unreliable
Spare, as in "reserve" "in case of emergency"Fe has 2 race cars per driver that must be used, there is also a minimum time for the pit stop that the change occurs in, do it too fast (in the middle of a race remember) you get a penalty.
Its probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.
I thought the last race was very enjoyable. Those who are condemning the series should remember what Formula One was like when it was first run. The tracks will get better, the cars will get faster and the range will increase.
The point of them racing in the centre of cities is to attract a wider audience than just the standard motorsport enthusiast. A friend of mine who lives in London went to see the race but had never seen a motor race event before, nor would they ever have considered it.
The series has legs and will continue to grow stronger.
The point of them racing in the centre of cities is to attract a wider audience than just the standard motorsport enthusiast. A friend of mine who lives in London went to see the race but had never seen a motor race event before, nor would they ever have considered it.
The series has legs and will continue to grow stronger.
SpeedMattersNot said:
Those who are condemning the series should remember what Formula One was like when it was first run.
The first ever F1 championship race was at Silverstone, a permanent 2.88 mile course. Farina qualified on pole with a 1:50.8. Farina went on to win the race (70 laps, 202 miles) in 2 hours, 13 minutes and 23 seconds.The first race of the Fe season was in the middle of Hong Kong, a temporarily constructed 1.1 mile track. Piquet Jr took pole with a 1:03 lap. Buemi won the race (45 laps, 51 miles) in 53 minutes, 13 seconds.
What parallel are you trying to draw between Fe and the start of F1 ? because as far as I can see, there are none.
SpeedMattersNot said:
The tracks will get better, the cars will get faster and the range will increase.
The tracks won't get better, they are specifically designed for the Fe cars to run on because they are incapable of running on proper tracks, they are too slow and don't have the endurance to do anything more than a few laps.Promises of increases in speed and range have long been promised and have yet to materialise.
IMHO Fe shouldn't even be called motorsport, there is no "motor" and I see little "sport" involved in a few glorified milk floats racing around a couple of inner city streets.
I marshalled formula E in london for the 1st year, the track wasnt idea but it was a fantastic location, literally a 10 minute walk from victoria. The event was run by Motorsport vision (the guys that run brands and others) and it was a success. The problem was that running it in a listed public park caused far too many issues for the locals plus even I questioned thee ethics of several hundred HGV movements in an already polluted city centre.
One option could be to build it into the ignition festival in glasgow, yes its a kind of city location but it has far better road links thanks to Glasgow building a motorway through the heart of the city in the 60's. THe scottish event campus also has better rail links and far more space to work with, wait and see
One option could be to build it into the ignition festival in glasgow, yes its a kind of city location but it has far better road links thanks to Glasgow building a motorway through the heart of the city in the 60's. THe scottish event campus also has better rail links and far more space to work with, wait and see
Crafty_ said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
Those who are condemning the series should remember what Formula One was like when it was first run.
The first ever F1 championship race was at Silverstone, a permanent 2.88 mile course. Farina qualified on pole with a 1:50.8. Farina went on to win the race (70 laps, 202 miles) in 2 hours, 13 minutes and 23 seconds.The first race of the Fe season was in the middle of Hong Kong, a temporarily constructed 1.1 mile track. Piquet Jr took pole with a 1:03 lap. Buemi won the race (45 laps, 51 miles) in 53 minutes, 13 seconds.
What parallel are you trying to draw between Fe and the start of F1 ? because as far as I can see, there are none.
Yes, Farina qualified on pole by only 2 tenths but the top 10 were covered by 6 seconds and 17th was 12 seconds back.
Only the top 3 finished on the same lap, with 11 finishers in total. Despite the motor vehicle having existed for 50 years already...
Bejing had 20 corners, the top 17 qualifiers were covered by just 4 seconds and 11 drivers ended on the same lap with 16 finishers.
Compare the first F1 race to today and they are so far apart and FE has already seen huge leaps in performance and racing. Not to mention the calibre of drivers in FE...
Crafty_ said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
The tracks will get better, the cars will get faster and the range will increase.
The tracks won't get better, they are specifically designed for the Fe cars to run on because they are incapable of running on proper tracks, they are too slow and don't have the endurance to do anything more than a few laps.Promises of increases in speed and range have long been promised and have yet to materialise.
IMHO Fe shouldn't even be called motorsport, there is no "motor" and I see little "sport" involved in a few glorified milk floats racing around a couple of inner city streets.
And anyway, it's not important, but one thing FE does have is a 'motor'. Other forms of motorsports have 'engines'...
Totally up to you though, but what isn't up to you is the fact that it is the future and the ICE will have to recede.
SpeedMattersNot said:
It's just your opinion that the technology won't improve. Buy I think it's very short sighted...
And anyway, it's not important, but one thing FE does have is a 'motor'. Other forms of motorsports have 'engines'...
Totally up to you though, but what isn't up to you is the fact that it is the future and the ICE will have to recede.
What was wrong with "F1" in 1950?And anyway, it's not important, but one thing FE does have is a 'motor'. Other forms of motorsports have 'engines'...
Totally up to you though, but what isn't up to you is the fact that it is the future and the ICE will have to recede.
Indeed, why select 1950?
The cars that raced at the first F1 World Championship race had been racing for quite a few years already. F1 itself was already three years old by 1950. In fact, some of the cars still racing in 1950 were from the immediate pre-F1 Grand Prix era.
It maddens me that people seem to think that something new "started" in 1950. Ir didn't - apart from the idea to award points for each race.
Eric, I didn't want to the muddy the waters with Grand Prix racing, 1950 is the first official F1 Championship year.
SpeedMattersNot was trying to compare Fe to the 'start' of F1, I'm still not sure what his point was to be honest.
So why don't we call it "enginesport" currently then ? motor=ICE in this context.
I don't believe statically recharged battery cars are the future, but there are several agendas going on that are currently pushing this. I think we'll move on to a better solution in a fairly small period of time (compared to ICE engines anyway).
SpeedMattersNot was trying to compare Fe to the 'start' of F1, I'm still not sure what his point was to be honest.
SpeedMattersNot said:
It's just your opinion that the technology won't improve. Buy I think it's very short sighted...
And anyway, it's not important, but one thing FE does have is a 'motor'. Other forms of motorsports have 'engines'...
Totally up to you though, but what isn't up to you is the fact that it is the future and the ICE will have to recede.
I didn't say the technology won't improve, what I said is that the diabolical way that Fe "races" won't improve.And anyway, it's not important, but one thing FE does have is a 'motor'. Other forms of motorsports have 'engines'...
Totally up to you though, but what isn't up to you is the fact that it is the future and the ICE will have to recede.
So why don't we call it "enginesport" currently then ? motor=ICE in this context.
I don't believe statically recharged battery cars are the future, but there are several agendas going on that are currently pushing this. I think we'll move on to a better solution in a fairly small period of time (compared to ICE engines anyway).
Crafty_ said:
IMHO Fe shouldn't even be called motorsport, there is no "motor" and I see little "sport" involved in a few glorified milk floats racing around a couple of inner city streets.
Meh they're slow but I've seen some entertaining battles in ithttps://www.facebook.com/fiaformulae/videos/142521...
Ignoring the budgets and star name ex-F1 drivers, in terms of single lap performance, they are faster than people think.
At Donington GP during preseason testing, they weren't using fake chicanes, they were putting lap times slightly faster than Monoposto F3 (570kgs / 200-210bhp) and a couple of laps slower than MSV F3 Cup cars.
These times were set using the 170kw/225bhp race power setting - they have the option of 200kw/268bhp qualifying mode - but the cars weight in the region of 900kgs, so 1.6 times the weight of the standard petrol engined F3 / Monoposto car.
The battery management adds a bit of strategy, but maybe I'd prefer to see a longer race where some battery management is needed, and then a shorter sprint race where they don't have to manage their battery charge level.
I will agree that I find it hard to get excited about FE.
I'm sure electric motors are probably the long term future, but less sure that batteries is the correct method of storing the energy.
At Donington GP during preseason testing, they weren't using fake chicanes, they were putting lap times slightly faster than Monoposto F3 (570kgs / 200-210bhp) and a couple of laps slower than MSV F3 Cup cars.
These times were set using the 170kw/225bhp race power setting - they have the option of 200kw/268bhp qualifying mode - but the cars weight in the region of 900kgs, so 1.6 times the weight of the standard petrol engined F3 / Monoposto car.
The battery management adds a bit of strategy, but maybe I'd prefer to see a longer race where some battery management is needed, and then a shorter sprint race where they don't have to manage their battery charge level.
I will agree that I find it hard to get excited about FE.
I'm sure electric motors are probably the long term future, but less sure that batteries is the correct method of storing the energy.
I understand what you're saying, but the problem the Formula has is that it is not that it is lacking in speed, but that it is lacking in spectacle. As Formula One is probably about to find out, there is no point making the cars xx fast if the spectacle provided by the noise, dicing and overtaking is poor.
Motor Racing only exists in almost any serious form because of sponsors. Sponsors only put the money in if they think there is a suitable audience to justify the investment. If you produce something which produces a sterile spectacle for race goers and viewers, they will just seek entertainment elsewhere. I'm sure that electric powertrains are going to figure greatly in the future of road cars, but it's rubbish motorsport and it's novelty value will wane quickly with it's audiences. At that point the sponsors and manufacturers will kill Formula E off, and look for more interesting and cost effective ways to reach thier audience.
As is, the "formula" for Formula E is just all wrong from my perspective. I need noise, smoke, vibration, a sense of drivers on the edge of thier skill and competition. I need a spectacle to see in exchange for my ticket money and time.
Motor Racing only exists in almost any serious form because of sponsors. Sponsors only put the money in if they think there is a suitable audience to justify the investment. If you produce something which produces a sterile spectacle for race goers and viewers, they will just seek entertainment elsewhere. I'm sure that electric powertrains are going to figure greatly in the future of road cars, but it's rubbish motorsport and it's novelty value will wane quickly with it's audiences. At that point the sponsors and manufacturers will kill Formula E off, and look for more interesting and cost effective ways to reach thier audience.
As is, the "formula" for Formula E is just all wrong from my perspective. I need noise, smoke, vibration, a sense of drivers on the edge of thier skill and competition. I need a spectacle to see in exchange for my ticket money and time.
corozin said:
I understand what you're saying, but the problem the Formula has is that it is not that it is lacking in speed, but that it is lacking in spectacle. As Formula One is probably about to find out, there is no point making the cars xx fast if the spectacle provided by the noise, dicing and overtaking is poor.
Motor Racing only exists in almost any serious form because of sponsors. Sponsors only put the money in if they think there is a suitable audience to justify the investment. If you produce something which produces a sterile spectacle for race goers and viewers, they will just seek entertainment elsewhere. I'm sure that electric powertrains are going to figure greatly in the future of road cars, but it's rubbish motorsport and it's novelty value will wane quickly with it's audiences. At that point the sponsors and manufacturers will kill Formula E off, and look for more interesting and cost effective ways to reach thier audience.
As is, the "formula" for Formula E is just all wrong from my perspective. I need noise, smoke, vibration, a sense of drivers on the edge of thier skill and competition. I need a spectacle to see in exchange for my ticket money and time.
I've read a good book which proves what I've highlighted in bold not to be the case. It's a very common misconception. There are at least 20 good reason why sponsors will invest in racing teams...brand awareness for companies such as McDonalds and Gillette is irrelevant! Motor Racing only exists in almost any serious form because of sponsors. Sponsors only put the money in if they think there is a suitable audience to justify the investment. If you produce something which produces a sterile spectacle for race goers and viewers, they will just seek entertainment elsewhere. I'm sure that electric powertrains are going to figure greatly in the future of road cars, but it's rubbish motorsport and it's novelty value will wane quickly with it's audiences. At that point the sponsors and manufacturers will kill Formula E off, and look for more interesting and cost effective ways to reach thier audience.
As is, the "formula" for Formula E is just all wrong from my perspective. I need noise, smoke, vibration, a sense of drivers on the edge of thier skill and competition. I need a spectacle to see in exchange for my ticket money and time.
Regarding the drivers being on edge, trust me, the cars are engineered very differently. Everything is focused around battery life, so do you want that rear toe-in for stability on the braking? Tough...it causes scrub. You want caster for that feeling of self-alignment towards centre when exiting a corner? Tough...it causes mechanical trail in the tyre which slows the car down.
The days have gone where drivers put 101% effort in as it has been proven that it is slower...Put that 94.67346433% in and they'll produce the fastest race time. There's no escaping that fact now...
....or go for a walk.Crafty_ said:
The tracks won't get better, they are specifically designed for the Fe cars to run on because they are incapable of running on proper tracks, they are too slow and don't have the endurance to do anything more than a few laps.
Promises of increases in speed and range have long been promised and have yet to materialise.
IMHO Fe shouldn't even be called motorsport, there is no "motor" and I see little "sport" involved in a few glorified milk floats racing around a couple of inner city streets.
Promises of increases in speed and range have long been promised and have yet to materialise.
IMHO Fe shouldn't even be called motorsport, there is no "motor" and I see little "sport" involved in a few glorified milk floats racing around a couple of inner city streets.
SpeedMattersNot said:
I thought the last race was very enjoyable. Those who are condemning the series should remember what Formula One was like when it was first run. The tracks will get better, the cars will get faster and the range will increase.
The point of them racing in the centre of cities is to attract a wider audience than just the standard motorsport enthusiast. A friend of mine who lives in London went to see the race but had never seen a motor race event before, nor would they ever have considered it.
The series has legs and will continue to grow stronger.
The point of them racing in cities is that they're not capable of racing on proper circuits. Testing and a couple of 'hot' laps is one thing but if they were to be allowed to race like that they'd need to be very short races indeed. The point of them racing in the centre of cities is to attract a wider audience than just the standard motorsport enthusiast. A friend of mine who lives in London went to see the race but had never seen a motor race event before, nor would they ever have considered it.
The series has legs and will continue to grow stronger.
I'm prepared to accept that the technology might develop but for now I have no interest. And in answer to the OP, no I didn't know there was a race.
Did any of you come and watch any of the races in Battersea Park especially the last one? I was working there it was the most exciting race I have seen for years with the championship being decided back and forward during the race!
I'm afraid to tell you something else, ordinary people you know 90% of the population , definitely not us, love the racing and the cars and could stand and see quite a lot getting up close to the chicanes you felt like the cars were fast enough to be spectacular. I saw lots of families having a great time , but maybe you had to be there to see that?
As for the future , well the second year the cars were much better and they will get better as the tech meets the challenges, isn't that what has always happened ? As for people saying its dead that sounds like the guy from IBM saying there was no market for personal computers.
Will they get faster ? Hell yes , will they last longer , hell yes ! Will they eventually be able to race on race tracks yes, but the attraction is going to where the people are, not the other way round? Will they sound better err maybe not.....
I'm afraid to tell you something else, ordinary people you know 90% of the population , definitely not us, love the racing and the cars and could stand and see quite a lot getting up close to the chicanes you felt like the cars were fast enough to be spectacular. I saw lots of families having a great time , but maybe you had to be there to see that?
As for the future , well the second year the cars were much better and they will get better as the tech meets the challenges, isn't that what has always happened ? As for people saying its dead that sounds like the guy from IBM saying there was no market for personal computers.
Will they get faster ? Hell yes , will they last longer , hell yes ! Will they eventually be able to race on race tracks yes, but the attraction is going to where the people are, not the other way round? Will they sound better err maybe not.....
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