Britcar Regulation Clarification
Discussion
Hello People,
Now this is a question which doesn't seem to have been answered anywhere else and I've tried to contact EERC about it few times but haven't gotten through:
The regulations for the Britcar category seem to be quite vague, regarding two things:
a) the range of bodywork modifications allowable, and
b) repostioning of components, such as radiators/heat exchangers and batteries.
Obviously ommission may mean "free" however, I really would like to get some confirmation before making changes that would be all but irreversible without a new shell...
__________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm intending to build a competition car, however, would ideally like to carry out some extensive bodywork and track widening, as well as moving the radiator and oil coolers to the rear of the car and cutting appropriate venting.
To anybody's knowledge, would this contravene either spirit or letter of the regulations?
Many thanks!
Now this is a question which doesn't seem to have been answered anywhere else and I've tried to contact EERC about it few times but haven't gotten through:
The regulations for the Britcar category seem to be quite vague, regarding two things:
a) the range of bodywork modifications allowable, and
b) repostioning of components, such as radiators/heat exchangers and batteries.
Obviously ommission may mean "free" however, I really would like to get some confirmation before making changes that would be all but irreversible without a new shell...
__________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm intending to build a competition car, however, would ideally like to carry out some extensive bodywork and track widening, as well as moving the radiator and oil coolers to the rear of the car and cutting appropriate venting.
To anybody's knowledge, would this contravene either spirit or letter of the regulations?
Many thanks!
My car is "legal" in GT3RS - it's a V8 Chevy engined Vauxhall Astra Saloon.
(Allegedly)
However, I would still need to add dry break refuelling to make it useable, or it'll be about 45-50mins running and that'll be my lucky lot.
Over this winter, anything could happen to it......
Rob.
(Allegedly)
However, I would still need to add dry break refuelling to make it useable, or it'll be about 45-50mins running and that'll be my lucky lot.
Over this winter, anything could happen to it......
Rob.
I think it's a good question: in F1 you have several factors which would harm a 4WD entrant:
Higher centre of gravity due to needing the propshaft to clear the engine, less balast flexibility, due to movement of sizeable weight to the front of the car, requiring Front prop, drive shafts differential, and the like - potentially putting the car over the minimum weight limit anyway, and therefore negating the possiblity for any ballast at all, and likely doing more damage to the car's balance than anything.
When you look at all of the other tin top championships, like BTCC, DTM, ITC, WRC and the few homologated 4WD GT cars, they've always (often literally) beeni in a class of their own.
Higher centre of gravity due to needing the propshaft to clear the engine, less balast flexibility, due to movement of sizeable weight to the front of the car, requiring Front prop, drive shafts differential, and the like - potentially putting the car over the minimum weight limit anyway, and therefore negating the possiblity for any ballast at all, and likely doing more damage to the car's balance than anything.
When you look at all of the other tin top championships, like BTCC, DTM, ITC, WRC and the few homologated 4WD GT cars, they've always (often literally) beeni in a class of their own.
4WD race cars have been very effective over the years. Audi dominated every championship it entered with quattro cars - Trans Am, IMSA GTO, DTM, Super Touring (it won every Super Touring Championship in the world in '96) and more recently the Speedvision series that supports ALMS.
The 4WD Alzen Alien was also massively fast at the Nurburgring last year - quicker than their RWD version had been.
One problem is that many championships either don't allow 4WD any more or add massive weight penalties that make it impossible. You only have to look at Super Touring to see that those manufacturers without 4WD will lobby rulemakers very heavily to get the system outlawed.
As tyre and diff technology has inproved over the years the need for 4WD in circuit racing has lessened, though.
As for the original question, the short answer is that there aren't really any rules. As long as it's a sort of GT or saloon car with somewhere near 400PS, with 14-inch tyres or less, it's allowed in. We could've driven a bus through the regs at the weekend, but ran entirely to FIA GT2 aero and chassis regs instead. James wanted us to run a road car engine, which we duly did.
For '07 there will be some proper regs as Britcar gains Championship status, which should make things better. At the moment JT decides what's in and what's out.
The 4WD Alzen Alien was also massively fast at the Nurburgring last year - quicker than their RWD version had been.
One problem is that many championships either don't allow 4WD any more or add massive weight penalties that make it impossible. You only have to look at Super Touring to see that those manufacturers without 4WD will lobby rulemakers very heavily to get the system outlawed.
As tyre and diff technology has inproved over the years the need for 4WD in circuit racing has lessened, though.
As for the original question, the short answer is that there aren't really any rules. As long as it's a sort of GT or saloon car with somewhere near 400PS, with 14-inch tyres or less, it's allowed in. We could've driven a bus through the regs at the weekend, but ran entirely to FIA GT2 aero and chassis regs instead. James wanted us to run a road car engine, which we duly did.
For '07 there will be some proper regs as Britcar gains Championship status, which should make things better. At the moment JT decides what's in and what's out.
rallycross said:
was at the 24hr Britcar at Silverstone tonight.
How come there are no 4wd cars there surely a really quick Impreza or EVO would do well in this series?
How come there are no 4wd cars there surely a really quick Impreza or EVO would do well in this series?
The problem with these cars is they simply they eat tyres and drink fuel. A few people have tried them and they don't work I'm afraid. However, if you are looking at the Ring 24hrs then suddenly it becomes a more feasible car because of the likely hood of intermitant rain showers over a lap. If its dry all weekend like this year however, you are out of the running. Since a lap on any other circuit in the world is by comparison so short the benefit is negated unless it rains.
Audi cannot be compared as an example of 4WD racing success really because the budget they work to and series polical clout they have clouds the technicalities of what is actually working underneath the car.
Phil (P***PVK on here) races a pretty serious Subaru Imprezza over there so he would know better than anyone the problems of 4WD racing cars.
Simon Mason said:
Audi cannot be compared as an example of 4WD racing success really because the budget they work to and series polical clout they have clouds the technicalities of what is actually working underneath the car.
I agree with you with regard to the budgets, but I'm not convinced about the political clout. Audi was forced out of most championships it entered and in the case of TransAm it intentionally gave itself a handicap by entering a modified production car (the 200) instead of a purpose-built spaceframe racecar like every other manufacturer.
When 4WD was banned from Super Touring and Audi built FWD A4s they were pretty dismal, even with Yvan Muller driving. A 4WD drive car will be easier on its tyres than a FWD one due to the sharing of the drive between the axles. The 4WD A4s were always easy on their tyres.
Anyway, that's by the by.
Simon, if that was you in the little number 77 Civic bloody well done! I was amazed to see that car so far up the leaderboard so early on. We were sharing a garage - I'm the Eclipse Motorsport team manager/engineer/strategist.
Ahonen said:
Simon, if that was you in the little number 77 Civic bloody well done! I was amazed to see that car so far up the leaderboard so early on. We were sharing a garage - I'm the Eclipse Motorsport team manager/engineer/strategist.
Thanks Ahonen, yes it was (I was the stressed looking, bold driver manager bloke). Everyone in the team put allot of time and effort into preparing for the race and a top 10 finish was always our ultimate goal so drove for that. Get 7th overall was a bonus, we were close to a top 6 but our drive shaft change etc etc 7 minute stop took that away from us. But 7th is mega.
I did'nt speak to many people outside the team all weekend I'm afraid, I was so wrapped up in making sure I had covered everything for us. As it turned out the whole team were exceptional in every way so I need'nt have worried.
What was your last pit stop for. We would have 8th if you had'nt had that problem?
CALORUS said:
Hey, is the Metallic Turquoise one? If so, I think I stumbled over you website a while back - do you still have it up?
It's ever so slightly updated!
But still in need of more work.
Next time out - November 4th - Donington - EERC Winter Series - V8 Supercars.
If I can keep the oil and water in it's designated recepticles.
jemco andy said:
Scuffers is your man for all things Lotus - I'm sure he will be about on the forum in the next day or two.
who me?
What you thinking about? (transplant wise)
did a lot of the 'testing' of the Honda converstion in Britcar, not quite sure where JT would want you now, he was pushing me towards Production S1 with mine... that said, I am sure he would welcome you...
Drop me a mail if you need any specific help/questions/etc...
Hi scuffers, I'm still thinking about the optoins and the honda is probaply the most wise option but if I'm going to have a pure track car I want it to be completely mad so I was thinking about dropping in a bike engine which has been done before or even more mad a V8 bike-engine these are still around 2 litre so would the car be eligeble?
btw. I'm still going through a few options really also on other cars but a bit of info would be great!
btw. I'm still going through a few options really also on other cars but a bit of info would be great!
kurtiejjj said:
Hi scuffers, I'm still thinking about the optoins and the honda is probaply the most wise option but if I'm going to have a pure track car I want it to be completely mad so I was thinking about dropping in a bike engine which has been done before or even more mad a V8 bike-engine these are still around 2 litre so would the car be eligeble?
btw. I'm still going through a few options really also on other cars but a bit of info would be great!
btw. I'm still going through a few options really also on other cars but a bit of info would be great!
I'd stick with the Honda if I were you. If you want mad then you can always supercharge it.
Regarding the remarks on 4WD cars not being worthwhile for dry conditions...
See this video of the HKS Hipermax Evo
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLxaWAgibvM
54 seconds at Tsukuba circuit is practically unheard of for a FR layout saloon car. In theory I can see many drawbacks for 4WD but they are really taking over at Time Attack in Japan
See this video of the HKS Hipermax Evo
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLxaWAgibvM
54 seconds at Tsukuba circuit is practically unheard of for a FR layout saloon car. In theory I can see many drawbacks for 4WD but they are really taking over at Time Attack in Japan
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