Greatest Racing Driver
Discussion
As others have said, how do you compare?
One discipline, or every disclipline?
Do you go purely on stats, (ie race enters: wins ratio)
or on level of competitors (ie someone who wins 100% of races he enters, racing against 5 year olds is statistcally better then an F1 driver, but not techniclaly so)
Do you go for the ability to get the most from a bad car?
What about wet weather driving?
what about most grid positions gained during a race (surely John Watson must win this one)
What about developing a car, and team, to the drivers advantage (Prost could, Mansell could'nt)
What about their effect on the sport? Arguably, Stewart had a greater effect then all thr otghers, becuase of his safety crusade
What about bringing the world attention into the sport? Hunt must be up there with Schumacher and Senna, for very different reasons
And would Gilles go?
And to top it all, we all have our favourites. And no-one will tell us any different
One discipline, or every disclipline?
Do you go purely on stats, (ie race enters: wins ratio)
or on level of competitors (ie someone who wins 100% of races he enters, racing against 5 year olds is statistcally better then an F1 driver, but not techniclaly so)
Do you go for the ability to get the most from a bad car?
What about wet weather driving?
what about most grid positions gained during a race (surely John Watson must win this one)
What about developing a car, and team, to the drivers advantage (Prost could, Mansell could'nt)
What about their effect on the sport? Arguably, Stewart had a greater effect then all thr otghers, becuase of his safety crusade
What about bringing the world attention into the sport? Hunt must be up there with Schumacher and Senna, for very different reasons
And would Gilles go?
And to top it all, we all have our favourites. And no-one will tell us any different
Juan Fangio = greatest classic race driver.
Carlos Sainz = greatest modern rally driver.
Michael Schumacher = greatest modern open-wheel racer.
Peter Brock = greatest modern touring-car driver.
Interestingly enough, Motor Sport magazine once published what it called the 20 best touring car drivers of all time:
Carlos Sainz = greatest modern rally driver.
Michael Schumacher = greatest modern open-wheel racer.
Peter Brock = greatest modern touring-car driver.
Interestingly enough, Motor Sport magazine once published what it called the 20 best touring car drivers of all time:
Motor Sport said:
1. Steve Soper (GBR); 2. Peter Brock (AUS) 3. Andy Rouse (GBR); 4. Alain Menu (SUI); 5. Bernd Schneider (GER); 6. Frank Gardner (AUS); 7. Roberto Ravaglia (ITA); 8. Gerry Marshall (GBR); 9. Jim Clark (GBR); 10. John Cleland (GBR); 11. Gabriele Tarquini (ITA); 12. Klaus Ludwig (GER); 13. Laurent Aiello (FRA); 14. Dieter Quester (GER); 15. Hans Stuck Jnr (GER); 16. Joachim Winkelhock (GER); 17. Jack Sears (GBR); 18. Rickard Rydell (SWE); 19. Frank Biela (GER); =20. Brian Muir (AUS); =20. Nicola Larini (ITA).
Jungles said:
Interestingly enough, Motor Sport magazine once published what it called the 20 best touring car drivers of all time:
Motor Sport said:
1. Steve Soper (GBR); 2. Peter Brock (AUS) 3. Andy Rouse (GBR); 4. Alain Menu (SUI); 5. Bernd Schneider (GER); 6. Frank Gardner (AUS); 7. Roberto Ravaglia (ITA); 8. Gerry Marshall (GBR); 9. Jim Clark (GBR); 10. John Cleland (GBR); 11. Gabriele Tarquini (ITA); 12. Klaus Ludwig (GER); 13. Laurent Aiello (FRA); 14. Dieter Quester (GER); 15. Hans Stuck Jnr (GER); 16. Joachim Winkelhock (GER); 17. Jack Sears (GBR); 18. Rickard Rydell (SWE); 19. Frank Biela (GER); =20. Brian Muir (AUS); =20. Nicola Larini (ITA).
An awful lot of names from what I think of as "the golden age" of the BTCC.
Freddie von Rost said:
I know I am being rather tedious about this, but who the f_ck is James Allen and why he is such a cock?
An explanation, please, before I have my bedtime triple Vodka and Horlicks would send me nicely off to the land of vroom.
An explanation, please, before I have my bedtime triple Vodka and Horlicks would send me nicely off to the land of vroom.
Freddie - James Allen is one of ITV's F1 commentators (alongside Martin Brundle). He replaced Murray Walker when Walker retired about five years ago. Allen's commentary is disliked by, it would seem, everyone on here because of a variety of reasons. He makes frequently makes basic errors like mixing up team-mates and he doesn't seem to be able to follow what's happening in the race. He makes cringingly embarrassing or otherwise nonsensical remarks (for examples see the James Allen Again thread). Worst of all though (for me at least) is his tireless over-enthusiasm. Even the most processional bore-fest of a race he will try to hype up to the point that he's insulting your intelligence and what he's saying loses all credibility. I think he said last month's Turkish GP was "a classic" - the race was OK but a classic? Come on.
Edited by SamHH on Monday 11th September 09:23
Out of all the drivers I've seen, from 1961 onwards, the driver most at home in a car was Clark. I saw him at his best, and in lots of different types of cars, and in each he was supreme. He was streets ahead of everyone else. I've seen the likes of Moss, Senna, Prost, Andretti, Stewart and Schumacher and, good as they undoubtably were, none seemed to be able to dominate a car to the extent that Clark did. He was also the one who appeared most at ease when driving at the limit.
You've got to see them drive to make a decision so I can't compare Clark to Fangio, of course. But he'd have to have fantastic abilities to challenge Clark.
My most vivid menory of Clark was in a Ford Galaxy during torrential rain. The commentators at Brands reckoned that the wet track would enable the less powerful cars to compete with the big bangers I was standing at Clearways and on the first lap of the GP circuit, Clark was approaching Druids before the second car came into my view.
Whenever and whatever he drove he seemed to keep the car in perfect balance. Brilliant driver, beautiful to watch. He was, they say, a mechanic's nightmare as he would drive what he was given so they had no idea when it came to setting up the car.
It was he who hooked me on motor racing and I stay that way hoping another Clark will come along. But I'm still waiting.
You've got to see them drive to make a decision so I can't compare Clark to Fangio, of course. But he'd have to have fantastic abilities to challenge Clark.
My most vivid menory of Clark was in a Ford Galaxy during torrential rain. The commentators at Brands reckoned that the wet track would enable the less powerful cars to compete with the big bangers I was standing at Clearways and on the first lap of the GP circuit, Clark was approaching Druids before the second car came into my view.
Whenever and whatever he drove he seemed to keep the car in perfect balance. Brilliant driver, beautiful to watch. He was, they say, a mechanic's nightmare as he would drive what he was given so they had no idea when it came to setting up the car.
It was he who hooked me on motor racing and I stay that way hoping another Clark will come along. But I'm still waiting.
SamHH said:
ApexJimi said:
Senna 
Purely on the basis of success Prost seems to have been just as good as Senna. He won more races, had a similar ratio of wins to starts and won one more championship.
Nah, Senna was a better driver... for example Donnington in '93 in the wet... was on the edge of my seat watching that.
Prost also said he'd never race again as a mark of respect, following Senna's death...
Edited by Podie on Monday 11th September 12:27
kevin ritson said:
Senna was only too happy to be put against a comparable driver in the same team .
When he really had to he did ,, when he could he would veto his team mate
But he was a great driver ,,,, so in the modern era i would say
Senna or Prost
Edited by Marki on Monday 11th September 12:27
I lack the benefit of having watched Clark, Moss, Stewart, Fangio, Nuvolari etc. But if any of those were better than Ayrton Senna they must have been very special indeed.
I think Sebastian Loeb is beginning to make a very strong case for himself as one of the greats as well. It's just a pity WRC has dwindled down to so few stars in so few cars. Sainz worked a lot harder to earn his tally of wins than Loeb has had to.
I know this is a car based question on a car based forum but I think Valentino Rossi is one of the greatest racers ever, regardless of discipline.
I think Sebastian Loeb is beginning to make a very strong case for himself as one of the greats as well. It's just a pity WRC has dwindled down to so few stars in so few cars. Sainz worked a lot harder to earn his tally of wins than Loeb has had to.
I know this is a car based question on a car based forum but I think Valentino Rossi is one of the greatest racers ever, regardless of discipline.
SamHH said:
Podie said:
Nah, Senna was a better driver... for example Donnington in '93 in the wet... was on the edge of my seat watching that.
What makes you say that? I mean, if Prost wasn't as good a driver how was he able to win just as often?
Edited by SamHH on Monday 11th September 12:36
Senna took risks , Prost was very risk averse
thats why Senna was so fast in the wet Marki said:
SamHH said:
Podie said:
Nah, Senna was a better driver... for example Donnington in '93 in the wet... was on the edge of my seat watching that.
What makes you say that? I mean, if Prost wasn't as good a driver how was he able to win just as often?
Edited by SamHH on Monday 11th September 12:36
Senna took risks , Prost was very risk averse
thats why Senna was so fast in the wetNail on head. Prost was known as the "Professor" - for good reason. Senna, however, was just so much more entertaining to watch.
Oh, and he went to lamp Irvine... which is just funny.
Marki said:
SamHH said:
Podie said:
Nah, Senna was a better driver... for example Donnington in '93 in the wet... was on the edge of my seat watching that.
What makes you say that? I mean, if Prost wasn't as good a driver how was he able to win just as often?
Edited by SamHH on Monday 11th September 12:36
Senna took risks , Prost was very risk averse
thats why Senna was so fast in the weti just cant name one, there are simply too many, I loved James Hunt's cavalier attitude and no one can deny he had the speed, Fangio, rudolph carraciola, moss, hill, surtees, hulme, stewart, prost.....
there are five whom i think should be mentioned and for the reasons i will offer.
Jim Clark, for being able to drive anything from a Lotus Cortinia to a Lotus 49 as fast as was possible and forever remaining the humble scotsman
Derek Bell, had the speed and mechanical sympathy to win le mans five times
Pedro Rodriguez, for getting a works ferrari le mans drive at the age of 18 and for his display, confirming his status as the best wet driver of his generation at the BOAC 1000kms Brands Hatch 1970, in a Porsche 917
Ayrton Senna, for his focus, his dedication to going faster and for his outright speed, watching senna on a qualifying lap at silverstone is a memory i will forever treasure. i cant remember where on the circuit we were stood but senna came past so much quicker than the others it was awesome, the car looked twitchy, you could hear him coming and his car seemed to be louder than the others, the engine note noticably higher than those who had been past before us. inevitably he would claim pole position, job done. i dont think there will ever be a driver capable of putting in a one of fast lap like him again.
Gilles Villeneuve, for moments like this
www.ventisetterosso.com/graphics/gv30.jpg
there are five whom i think should be mentioned and for the reasons i will offer.
Jim Clark, for being able to drive anything from a Lotus Cortinia to a Lotus 49 as fast as was possible and forever remaining the humble scotsman
Derek Bell, had the speed and mechanical sympathy to win le mans five times
Pedro Rodriguez, for getting a works ferrari le mans drive at the age of 18 and for his display, confirming his status as the best wet driver of his generation at the BOAC 1000kms Brands Hatch 1970, in a Porsche 917
Ayrton Senna, for his focus, his dedication to going faster and for his outright speed, watching senna on a qualifying lap at silverstone is a memory i will forever treasure. i cant remember where on the circuit we were stood but senna came past so much quicker than the others it was awesome, the car looked twitchy, you could hear him coming and his car seemed to be louder than the others, the engine note noticably higher than those who had been past before us. inevitably he would claim pole position, job done. i dont think there will ever be a driver capable of putting in a one of fast lap like him again.
Gilles Villeneuve, for moments like this
www.ventisetterosso.com/graphics/gv30.jpg
Podie said:
Marki said:
Senna took risks , Prost was very risk averse
thats why Senna was so fast in the wetNail on head. Prost was known as the "Professor" - for good reason. Senna, however, was just so much more entertaining to watch.
Oh, and he went to lamp Irvine... which is just funny.
I wasn't watching motorsport when Senna and Prost were around so I can't comment on the entertainment factor. Prost may have been risk averse but it was obviously a method that worked very well for him.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff