Briatore claims race-fixing by FIA and Ferrari

[Jungles]

Whoa! Someone actually said it!

www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,20389940-23770,00.html

I'm guessing heads will fly for this.

[tomtvr]

Hes going to be in mega big trouble! You cant say things like that!

[hut49]

Watch as this escalates and Renault take the opportunity to withdraw from F1 - even with the cash penalty. They don't need F1 and others won't be far behind them. In fact who cares if F1 disappears altogether - it's become so mundane.

[magic torch]

Supposedly a clarification.

Briatore said:

These comments which have been attributed to me in the press today have been completely taken out of context. A jokey remark has been turned into something it was not intended to be. I have every confidence in the governance of our sport and look forward to our team fighting and winning the Formula One World Championship this season.

[CommanderJameson]

magic torch said:

Supposedly a clarification.

Briatore said:

These comments which have been attributed to me in the press today have been completely taken out of context. A jokey remark has been turned into something it was not intended to be. I have every confidence in the governance of our sport and look forward to our team fighting and winning the Formula One World Championship this season.

There's a bit of a Pinocchio statement in there.

Either that, or he's being really, really sarcastic.

Edited by CommanderJameson on Monday 11th September 07:40

[mg511]

If the FIA were race fixing Alonson would have had a'drive through' for his move on Heidfeld. Flav was just showing his lack of class yet again, as he did with his comments about Schmi on ITV after the race yesterday.

[djmotorsport]

After seeing Alonso penalised for "blocking" Massa, and the mass damper fiasco, good on him for speaking his mind. As for the incident at the first chicane - after letting Michael away with it a couple of races ago, they couldn't change their minds just coz it wasn't a red car. A pity Flavio's had to retract somewhat - I'm sick of Ferarri getting all the breaks - In fact, this year I've missed GP's and it hasn't mattered - MotoGP gets my vote for real racing, as does GP2.

[VladD]

Flav was just saying what most of the sensible minded people were thinking. There was no way in a million years that Alonso was blocking Massa. If that was the case then the entire field could claim that they were blocked during the fuel burning phase. Alonso was right behind the cheating Kraut during that part, but he didn't claim he was blocked. Please remember, there isn't an official fuel burning phase, its all qualifying, so you can't distiguish between what happens at the start and what happens at the end.

[waynepixel]

The decision made on Renault, and Fernando Alonso was completely wrong on Sunday. And I am amazed that FIA even come to that conclusion. Some question need to be asked. It just wrong.

Edited by waynepixel on Monday 11th September 09:49

Interesting.

"Briatore compared his claims about race and championship-fixing in Formula One with the scandal surrounding Italian football in which Juventus, like Ferrari owned by Fiat."

Edited by waynepixel on Monday 11th September 09:59

[Derek Smith]

VladD said:

Please remember, there isn't an official fuel burning phase, its all qualifying, so you can't distiguish between what happens at the start and what happens at the end.

That's a excellent point. It had escaped me. Makes the decision even worse - if that was possible.

It was nice to see Mosley squirming. The expression on his face when Brundel approached him said even more than Flav. Now we can look forward to a 'clarification' of the rule. Not, you notice, that the stewards were utterly and completely wrong, just that the rule needs changing.

Mind you, the thing is that Ferrari, with FIAT money, are the richest team on the grid. With all else being equal, they should dominate. In the past they wasted so much of it. Now they seem to be putting it where it is most effective.

[Woody]

Derek Smith said:

It was nice to see Mosley squirming. The expression on his face when Brundel approached him said even more than Flav. Now we can look forward to a 'clarification' of the rule. Not, you notice, that the stewards were utterly and completely wrong, just that the rule needs changing.

Interesting point, especially when James Allen was talking about the 'Permanent' FIA steward (Tony Scott Andrews IIRC), the fact that this guy is a top class lawyer type - now not wanting to sound cynical (but probably will!!) - what the Fk does he know about how an F1 car is affected by turbulant air??

Both Brundle and Blundell stated that Alonso was so far ahead the only thing he would have been guilty of was to give Massa a tow down the straight!

Now why have the FIA appointed lawyers and not drivers/technical bods etc as stewards??? another one of lifes unanswered questions........

About time Moseley stopped giving jobs to his mates and did us all a favour by resigning!

Rant over

Chris

[jamieboy]

Woody said:

Interesting point, especially when James Allen was talking about the 'Permanent' FIA steward (Tony Scott Andrews IIRC), the fact that this guy is a top class lawyer type - now not wanting to sound cynical (but probably will!!) - what the Fk does he know about how an F1 car is affected by turbulant air??

Both Brundle and Blundell stated that Alonso was so far ahead the only thing he would have been guilty of was to give Massa a tow down the straight!

Now why have the FIA appointed lawyers and not drivers/technical bods etc as stewards??? another one of lifes unanswered questions........

About time Moseley stopped giving jobs to his mates and did us all a favour by resigning!

In fairness, this is the same permanent steward who was being applauded at Monaco for sending MS to the back of the grid - based on telemetry and his judgement. This weekend he made another decision on the same basis, but this one wasn't so popular.

Point is, Ferrari was able to show whatever data they had that indicated Massa was slower round the Parabolica than he ought to have been, and it seems very difficult to be 100% certain whether he made a mistake, whether he was towed into the rev-limiter, or whether there was a genuine loss of downforce.

FWIW, it didn't look to me as though Massa was affected, but I don't know a great deal about aerodynamic efficiency.

edit - of course, there are (I think) three stewards so not entirely his decision, and only one of the stewards is permanent, so we're not guaranteed consistency.

Edited by jamieboy on Monday 11th September 10:51

[FourWheelDrift]

jamieboy said:

In fairness, this is the same permanent steward who was being applauded at Monaco for sending MS to the back of the grid - based on telemetry and his judgement. This weekend he made another decision on the same basis, but this one wasn't so popular.

That was a no brainer, the majority agreed. Now he does something wrong and the majoirity agrees he's wrong. It's like the referee giving the goal when Maradonna handled it in in 1986. Massa could go over a bump which lifts his foot of the accelerator for a split second losing a tenth, if you look at the telemetry you could say he momentarily lifted for a reason but using your eyes you would see he didn't. You can't base decisions on just telemetry reasons, in his case I heard him stay on the rev limiter for while half way round Parabolica, which was a mistake on his part, yet it could have and probably seen on the telemetry as him being unable to accelerate because he was suffering behind Alonso, which he wasn't, he just went too deep into the corner trying to get pole and messed his line up.

[D_Mike]

djmotorsport said:

After seeing Alonso penalised for "blocking" Massa, and the mass damper fiasco, good on him for speaking his mind. As for the incident at the first chicane - after letting Michael away with it a couple of races ago, they couldn't change their minds just coz it wasn't a red car. A pity Flavio's had to retract somewhat - I'm sick of Ferarri getting all the breaks - In fact, this year I've missed GP's and it hasn't mattered - MotoGP gets my vote for real racing, as does GP2.

They have shot themselves in the foot with their "clarification" over what michael did. In their attempt to favour him they have now made it legal cut out pieces of the track to get past other cars so long as you were infront of the car you were passing before you left the track! That isn't motorsport...

[J1mmyD]

Woody said:

Interesting point, especially when James Allen was talking about the 'Permanent' FIA steward (Tony Scott Andrews IIRC), the fact that this guy is a top class lawyer type ...
Now why have the FIA appointed lawyers and not drivers/technical bods etc as stewards??? another one of lifes unanswered questions....
Chris

Because F1 has ceased to be a true, full blooded motorsport.

Instead, the Formula has become so convoluted and complex that it needs a 'top drawer' lawyer to make sense of anything.

It's about time we went back to saying you can have an X litre engine, you can have Y number of cylinders, you can have 4 wheels, you can have wings for and aft and you have to get around a track faster than everyone else.

Set the Formula and stick to it. Don't change it year on year in order to get a desired result.

Failing that, let's all go watch the BTCC ... it's a much better race anyway.

[tvrforever]

So here's a thought :-

How about appointing an ex racing driver as one of the stewards? Martin Brundle certainly has the technical knowledge and commercial sense to do this - but probably to closely linked to some of the drivers via his mngt company and TV coverage. But there must be some other 'recent-ish' drivers that would qualify in this role?

Would certainly bring some real-world into the mystry tour (stopped being magical some time ago) that is FIA decisions....

[djmotorsport]

Mike, I agree 100% - but because they let Michael away with it as you say, it now seems acceptable.

I wish they would get back plain and simple racing meaning: old style qualifying (all cars on track if they so wish) - no refuelling, slick tyres - wait a minute, that sounds just like GP2 ......

[LongQ]

J1mmyD said:

Because F1 has ceased to be a true, full blooded motorsport.

According to what I read in the paper this morning Alonso agrees with you.

J1mmyD said:

It's about time we went back to saying you can have an X litre engine, you can have Y number of cylinders, you can have 4 wheels, you can have wings for and aft and you have to get around a track faster than everyone else.

Set the Formula and stick to it. Don't change it year on year in order to get a desired result.

Failing that, let's all go watch the BTCC ... it's a much better race anyway.

Agreed except for the wings. No wings better for a while.

Changes to regs only in the event of safety issues or significant technological progress which introduces things (details rather than primary principles) that all the partcipants agree need to be addressed.

Can't agree about the BTCC though. Too much like banger racing for my taste.

[williamp]

what I like to see racing:

1) more power then grip
2) no electrinic aids
3) no horizintal aerodynamic wing devices

[rude-boy]

Having seen the on-board from Massa this morning I think it is a total disgrace that Alonso was penalised. It was a bad call by the stewards and I would question it any day, let alone because it was Ferrari who benefited from it the most.

It is also very concerning that the mass dampers were found to be illegal mid season. Fair enough if it was a mistake to allow them in in the first place but once the FIA have approved them they should have to wait until the end of the season to ban them IMHO (something like they did with BAR last year or the year before).

It has been very worrying though that so many things to benefit Ferrari have come about in the last month.