Briatore claims race-fixing by FIA and Ferrari
Discussion
I am sooo p1ssed about this. F1 is no longer a sport and I agree with Alonso without a doubt (I'm not a Renault fan tho).
Ferrari have been bringing the sport into disrepute for some time, and this is yet another example.
How can the entire grid and commentary team disagree with the FIA if the are sooo correct?
Argh, I want to hit something. Preferably an FIA steward!
Ferrari have been bringing the sport into disrepute for some time, and this is yet another example.
How can the entire grid and commentary team disagree with the FIA if the are sooo correct?
Argh, I want to hit something. Preferably an FIA steward!
williamp said:
what I like to see racing:
1) more power then grip
2) no electrinic aids
3) no horizintal aerodynamic wing devices
I don't agree. F1 is a test of two things: 1) more power then grip
2) no electrinic aids
3) no horizintal aerodynamic wing devices
1. the drivers' ability
2. the teams' engineering and technological prowess.
My view is that the rules should stipulate certain safety parameters (driver must be able to survive a head-on crash at x mph) in order to avoid compromise on safety, should have fixed length, width and height and there should be a limit on the amount of fuel per car per race.
Alonso is showing no signs of backing off from his outburst, still claiming the Monza race was fixed.
www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,20391165-23770,00.html
Finally a driver who actually speaks his mind. I thought David Coulthard was the last of the breed.
www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,20391165-23770,00.html
Finally a driver who actually speaks his mind. I thought David Coulthard was the last of the breed.
Edited by Jungles on Tuesday 12th September 04:52
Fully support the Renault/Brundle/Sport case on this one - about time that the FIA published it's "special evidence" or retract...
Long ago did this stop being a sport but it did used to be a competition - sadly too few people feel comfortable saying what they believe, those who do should be applauded.
Fear that this can only go one way though
Long ago did this stop being a sport but it did used to be a competition - sadly too few people feel comfortable saying what they believe, those who do should be applauded.
Fear that this can only go one way though
Derek Smith said:
Mind you, the thing is that Ferrari, with FIAT money, are the richest team on the grid. With all else being equal, they should dominate. In the past they wasted so much of it. Now they seem to be putting it where it is most effective.
BIT OT but Ferrari dont have FIAT money..
TonyToniTone said:
BIT OT but Ferrari dont have FIAT money..
I've never been able to establish just how much FIAT money they do have now. I presume they do, since there's a chunky "FIAT" logo on their nosecone. They claim to make a profit from F1 though. Didn't F1 Racing magazine produce a breakdown of income sources in F1 recently?
rubystone said:
TonyToniTone said:
BIT OT but Ferrari dont have FIAT money..
I've never been able to establish just how much FIAT money they do have now. I presume they do, since there's a chunky "FIAT" logo on their nosecone. They claim to make a profit from F1 though. Didn't F1 Racing magazine produce a breakdown of income sources in F1 recently?
Don't Fiat still own 55% or something of Ferrari? This would account for the logos.
I think aside from the obvious, the problem is that the FIA have now set a precident by which qualifying is going to be more of a competition involving making sure that drivers aren't 'blocking' other cars, rather than seeing who can drive fastest. Personally I'd forget any notions of blocking - if it was made a free for all in the true sense, an equilibrium would be found as too much time spent blocking would result in an uncompetitive time being recorded. The same for the blue flags - a back marker is by definition in a slow car, so why shouldn't the leaders be made to overtake fair and square. It would put an end to the constant mutterings of one car being allowed freely passed and another being held up.
richb said:
Out of interest, what was the controversy during the podium ceremony at the Turkish GP that Briatori refres to?
Cyprus slams Turkish F1 'trick'
Greek Cypriots watched the event live on state TV
Cyprus is making an official complaint to motor sport's world governing body over what it calls a political "trick" at the Turkish Grand Prix.
The Turkish Cypriot leader, Mehmet Ali Talat, presented the Formula One trophy at the televised event in Istanbul.
However, he was introduced as president of the Turkish Cypriot "state" - which is only recognised by Turkey.
Cyprus has been split since 1974, when Turkish troops invaded the north of the island after a Greek-inspired coup.
"The Cypriot government will denounce this unacceptable and provocative piece of theatre," Cyprus government spokesman Christodoulos Pashardis told reporters after the Grand Prix award ceremony.
Q&A: Cyprus peace process
He accused Turkish officials of exploiting a sporting event and "tricking" the organising body, the International Motoring Federation (FIA).
"Mr Talat is neither a citizen nor an official of Turkey, the organising country, to be invited to present the Formula One winner's trophy," he stated.
He also said the Cypriot Automobile Association would lodge a follow-up complaint.
The FIA is required to be politically neutral.
If by magic we could interleave different eras, one might be interested to see how the FIA would have exercised its political neutrality at the 1938 German Grand Prix.
mg511 said:
If the FIA were race fixing Alonso would have had a 'drive through' for his move on Heidfeld..
With regards to the penalty imposed on Alonso, to my uneducated eye it doesn't look like Massa was impeded. However if Max Moseley says to Martin Brundle "you think that because you don't have all the facts" and refers to "data received from the cars demonstrates that aerodynamic downforce was lost in the parabloica due to turbulent air" we have to listen. With the small elements of wing used at Monza, disturbed air would have a larger influence and therefore it is feasible that Massa was impeded. Truth is, I don't know and it is unlikely that we will ever have the data to make an informed decision.
Alonso clearly made an overtake on Heidfeld by bypassing the second apex of the first chicane with no penalty.
Maybe the FIA have allowed Schumacher to change the rules with his previous overtake and now they will have to be changed to stop other cheating b'stards from abusing them.
Maybe the FIA decided that they would let Alonso off to even up a decision that they were getting a slating for.
Maybe the FIA thought the race would be a better spectacle with Alonso still up front.
What really gets to me is the attitude that Schumacher is a cheat he cut the chicane etc etc. Alonso is not a cheat, he just did the same. Either they are both cheats or they are both not.
stubby pete said:
What really gets to me is the attitude that Schumacher is a cheat he cut the chicane etc etc. Alonso is not a cheat, he just did the same. Either they are both cheats or they are both not.
THe problem is that in allowing Schumacher to get away with it, they set a very dangerous precedent that every other driver can now use as justification to do the same.
Dr JonboyG said:
stubby pete said:
What really gets to me is the attitude that Schumacher is a cheat he cut the chicane etc etc. Alonso is not a cheat, he just did the same. Either they are both cheats or they are both not.
THe problem is that in allowing Schumacher to get away with it, they set a very dangerous precedent that every other driver can now use as justification to do the same.
Exactly, if the rules now say you can cut a chicane then you are going to cut it. I was suprised to see Heidfeld actually trying to make the chicane - get with the programme boy! The problem with Alonso's qualifying penalty is that it brings a new meaning to "blocking", as in interupting a following cars aerodynamics. I watched Massa's lap onboard and he simply ran wide in the Parabolica and took several stabs at getting on the power. Its all an absolute farce and I was really gutted for Alonso. I'd like to see him beat Schumacher to the title ten fold now, much to Ferrari's and the FIA's displeasure I'm sure.
I wont miss Schumacher whatsoever, I heard comments about him doing so much for the sport blah blah blah. But has he really? He has reset so much of the driving etiquette that is deemed permisable and without doubt been the most unsporting Champion there has been. Bring on the new generation I say.
TonyToniTone said:
Derek Smith said:
Mind you, the thing is that Ferrari, with FIAT money, are the richest team on the grid. With all else being equal, they should dominate. In the past they wasted so much of it. Now they seem to be putting it where it is most effective.
BIT OT but Ferrari dont have FIAT money..
And FIAT doesn't have any money anyway (apart from circa 800M of GM's dosh stuffed under a few matresses next to the horses heads)
I could be that the FIA would have penalised Alonso for the chicane cutting had he finished the race and perhaps won it ... unlikely as that may have been on the day.
The difference seems to be that FA was making a pass and MS was defending a pass.
FA passed on the inside but could not make the chicane so took a trip across the grass.
MS was being passed and simply drove straight on from the outside to resume his unpassed position.
A different proposition really though the differences in moral terms may be slight.
The difference seems to be that FA was making a pass and MS was defending a pass.
FA passed on the inside but could not make the chicane so took a trip across the grass.
MS was being passed and simply drove straight on from the outside to resume his unpassed position.
A different proposition really though the differences in moral terms may be slight.
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