Oulton Park Results 7th October
Discussion
RetroWheels said:
Pretty certain i wont make the same mistake again
....oh I don't know Darren, it can happen to the best of us any time... Darren at Combe for example.
It usually happens just after you've realised the starter motor is knackered, or the battery is flat (i.e. you know it won't start again). You sit on the grid thinking 'Don't stall, don't stall....' and then Murphy's Law does its thing...
griff2be said:
[quote=RetroWheels]
Pretty certain i wont make the same mistake again.
Pretty certain i wont make the same mistake again
....oh I don't know Darren, it can happen to the best of us any time... Darren at Combe for example.
Hi Darren,
The first time it happened to me was at Mallory this year when I was trying too hard to get a good start! At least you didn't have a car behind you take your back end out and then to rub salt in the wound the engine wouldn't restart and it took me 30 secs before I could get it going again. A very expensive mistake
And one I'm hoping not to repeat.
Anyway, as I said after the race, you did really well for your first outing and it'll be great to see you out with us next season. Cheers,
Steve
RetroWheels said:
Question : What did i never have to practice in five years of Track Days in my TVR's ?
Answer : Standing Starts ,surrounded by a Grid of TVR's
. Result : Stalling on the Start Line - of my first ever race
. If it makes you feel any better my first race was at cadwell in the tasmin. 18 almost identical cars and i qualified 8th
right in the middle. Never mind not having practiced starts it was only my 3rd time on a track (ards,track day, race) i remember being sat there at the start, the lights changed and everyone else went... bugger i thought i suppose i should be going now as well !!! having lost about 6 places
G
kevin63 said:
It's all a con, i have been in a car with Darren on a track day and he is always starting at the back, he just loves to pass people.
Mind you, he does do it very well and i love it.
Mind you, he does do it very well and i love it.
Edited by kevin63 on Thursday 12th October 19:37
Woolfe in sheep's clothing eh? Should've known.
Its not like that with this racing lark Kev.
Some of these blighters are bloody fast
.
Think we need to do a Track day in the Chim -pronto - there's nothing better for the ego than doing 120mph passing a "driving experience" Ferrari driven by a complete novice..........
Much more my cup of tea.
Some of these blighters are bloody fast
. Think we need to do a Track day in the Chim -pronto - there's nothing better for the ego than doing 120mph passing a "driving experience" Ferrari driven by a complete novice..........
Much more my cup of tea
.
I can't say that I have noticed any big improvement in rear grip, but the tyres have lasted much better. Having said that I haven't done a back to back, so it is difficult to tell. When I was following Darren D closely at Combe the back of his car (on the big slicks) looked planted, whilst mine was very oversteery. That was what prompted me to go for the bigger wheels and tyres.
One thing it did do was destroy the brake bias. With the bigger tyres you need less rear brake and I ran out of front bias - it gave me huge problems in the V8 Supercar race at Donington. I had to change from 4 pot rear callipers to 2 pot.
Speaking of the V8s, is anyone up for 2 x 20 min races at Donington on 4 Nov and the same again at Brands on 18 Nov? I know a number of us are up for it.... drop me a line if you are interested...
One thing it did do was destroy the brake bias. With the bigger tyres you need less rear brake and I ran out of front bias - it gave me huge problems in the V8 Supercar race at Donington. I had to change from 4 pot rear callipers to 2 pot.
Speaking of the V8s, is anyone up for 2 x 20 min races at Donington on 4 Nov and the same again at Brands on 18 Nov? I know a number of us are up for it.... drop me a line if you are interested...
teamHOLDENracing said:
I can't say that I have noticed any big improvement in rear grip, but the tyres have lasted much better. Having said that I haven't done a back to back, so it is difficult to tell. When I was following Darren D closely at Combe the back of his car (on the big slicks) looked planted, whilst mine was very oversteery. That was what prompted me to go for the bigger wheels and tyres.
That's interesting Andy, I'd have thought that the bigger wheels give you more grip coming out of the corners, allowing you to put the power down a little bit earlier, which in turn means the potential for a bit more straight line speed thereafter? I think Darren had the bigger wheels on when we were at Donington too, did he have brake bias problems as well? It's interesting to hear what you say, as I was going to put the bigger wheels that I have for my sag' onto my Tuscan for Oulton but they don't fit under the wheel arches, so couldn't.
Steve
GlynnsportRacing said:
That's interesting Andy, I'd have thought that the bigger wheels give you more grip coming out of the corners, allowing you to put the power down a little bit earlier, which in turn means the potential for a bit more straight line speed thereafter? I think Darren had the bigger wheels on when we were at Donington too, did he have brake bias problems as well? It's interesting to hear what you say, as I was going to put the bigger wheels that I have for my sag' onto my Tuscan for Oulton but they don't fit under the wheel arches, so couldn't.
Steve
In theory they should give a bit more grip, although the downside is the additional unsprung weight. Both Darren and I were running the 10" rims at Donington. They differ from yours and Tim's Sag wheels in that the extra width is on the inside of the wheel rather than the outside, which is why they fit the Tuscan arches. I don't think Darren had the same brake issues as he was already running 2 pots at the rear. Graham is running the 10" wheels on the rear of his car too (he has 4 pots all round)
The 'preferred' brake combination is 6 pots front, 2 pots rear, or 4 pots all round. I had 6 pots front, 4 pots rear originally - effectively I had more rear braking power than was needed (and extra weight) which was exaccerbated with the bigger wheels.
On the Sag I will run 6's and 4's as I think the rear wing will mean the rears will take more brake
Overall I'd say the effect on handling was marginal, but the improved tyre wear means the handling stays good for longer. Unless the tyres are already shot, like mine at Oulton, in which case they are pretty rubbish throughout....
The 'preferred' brake combination is 6 pots front, 2 pots rear, or 4 pots all round. I had 6 pots front, 4 pots rear originally - effectively I had more rear braking power than was needed (and extra weight) which was exaccerbated with the bigger wheels.
On the Sag I will run 6's and 4's as I think the rear wing will mean the rears will take more brake[/quote]
I see what you're saying and I think that Tim is running 6 pots front and 4 pots rear, which is what we're doing with my Sag' build too. Judging by how Tim's is now running, it seems to work pretty well!
You're absolutely right about why my larger Sag wheels don't fit the Tuscan. Don't think I'd have had the brake bias problem though, as when I bought the Tuscan, it appears that the 6 pot front brakes magically turned into 4 pots before the car was picked up from Blackpool!!! Not to mention a few other bits (expensive ones too) that disappeared.
How's your Sag' build progressing?
Steve
On the Sag I will run 6's and 4's as I think the rear wing will mean the rears will take more brake[/quote]
I see what you're saying and I think that Tim is running 6 pots front and 4 pots rear, which is what we're doing with my Sag' build too. Judging by how Tim's is now running, it seems to work pretty well!
You're absolutely right about why my larger Sag wheels don't fit the Tuscan. Don't think I'd have had the brake bias problem though, as when I bought the Tuscan, it appears that the 6 pot front brakes magically turned into 4 pots before the car was picked up from Blackpool!!! Not to mention a few other bits (expensive ones too) that disappeared.
How's your Sag' build progressing?
Steve
Slower than I'd like is the answer. The shell is on the chassis and the roll cage is in. Footwells, floors and transmission tunnel all in and pretty much finished, as is front bulkhead. Need to collect side exhaust panel and bonnet to modify passenger side and front corners, then its time to remove chassis for modifying and powder coating.
I have had a flexible ATL 70 litre fuel cell made to my spec as I am nervous about having that much fuel in the car with me in a rigid ali tank. That arrived the other week and I have modified the chassis mounting plates to take it. Just been doing the same for the pedal box.
The main problem is deciding on exactly what we need to do to the chassis to get the LSx to fit, and how that will impact on the shell.... then the little issue of engine management electronics, loom, bell housing, etc etc etc...
I have had a flexible ATL 70 litre fuel cell made to my spec as I am nervous about having that much fuel in the car with me in a rigid ali tank. That arrived the other week and I have modified the chassis mounting plates to take it. Just been doing the same for the pedal box.
The main problem is deciding on exactly what we need to do to the chassis to get the LSx to fit, and how that will impact on the shell.... then the little issue of engine management electronics, loom, bell housing, etc etc etc...
So,285's are not making an immense amount of difference to rear end grip on a Tuscan but lasting longer.
No doubt, when fitted to Sagaris Racers, the rear wing will make the most of the extra footprint of the wider tyres.
"58" has 6 pot fr and 2 pot rr callipers , so it might still be worthwhile trying a pair of the Compomotive wider wheels -which i believe have the right offset.
Incidentaly Andy, Glynn , how much effective track time do you get out of a set of Soft(257 compound) 250 section Dunlop slicks ?
No doubt, when fitted to Sagaris Racers, the rear wing will make the most of the extra footprint of the wider tyres.
"58" has 6 pot fr and 2 pot rr callipers , so it might still be worthwhile trying a pair of the Compomotive wider wheels -which i believe have the right offset.
Incidentaly Andy, Glynn , how much effective track time do you get out of a set of Soft(257 compound) 250 section Dunlop slicks ?
Edited by RetroWheels on Friday 13th October 17:39
Assuming you put them through a heat cycle before using them in anger... you'll probably get about 25 -30 minutes when they are really optimal, and that was allowing them to cool down in between races. They used to go off part way through race 2 when we did the BGT meetings. You could do a couple of meetings with one set, or possibly even three, but you'd be giving away time against an otherwise equal driver.
I might sell my 2 wider wheels at the end of the year as I'll be getting ones with a different offset for the Sag
I might sell my 2 wider wheels at the end of the year as I'll be getting ones with a different offset for the Sag
[quote=RetroWheels]
Incidentaly Andy, Glynn , how much effective track time do you get out of a set of Soft(257 compound) 250 section Dunlop slicks ?
The standard tyres I'm using in the Challenge give about 3 hrs before they go off totally. The ware and tare differs alot from circuit to circuit and conditions as well. I'm told they're about one to two secs a lap slower than the softer compound but clearly last a lot long longer as confirmed by Andy. I imagine they're what you used at Oulton too? Personally, I'm quite happy to sacrifice a bit of grip and hence lap times for the extra longevity - as you know they're not cheap!
Steve
Incidentaly Andy, Glynn , how much effective track time do you get out of a set of Soft(257 compound) 250 section Dunlop slicks ?
The standard tyres I'm using in the Challenge give about 3 hrs before they go off totally. The ware and tare differs alot from circuit to circuit and conditions as well. I'm told they're about one to two secs a lap slower than the softer compound but clearly last a lot long longer as confirmed by Andy. I imagine they're what you used at Oulton too? Personally, I'm quite happy to sacrifice a bit of grip and hence lap times for the extra longevity - as you know they're not cheap!
Steve
This is one of the reasons I love the Tuscan series at present, here we have the great and the good debating the merits of different compound tyres that give maybe 30mins track time, while the mere mortals of the grid make one set of (second hand) tyres last a whole season.
The eclectic mix of cars, budgets and abilities is something we need to build on!
Regards
Iain
The eclectic mix of cars, budgets and abilities is something we need to build on!
Regards
Iain
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