Button !! 2007 F1 World champion ?
Discussion
That arrogance comes with knowledge in your own abilities and confidence in the equipment. For much of the last two seasons, the latter of the two has been missing and prior to that he was getting jerked around by Williams!
Are you aware of how successful JB was at karting?.... His talent and ability is without question, and I'm pretty damn sure that he has a rejuvenated confidence in his abilities since breaking his duck.
Provided Honda can put a good car together, there is no reason what-so-ever why he wouldn't be challenging for the title.
Are you aware of how successful JB was at karting?.... His talent and ability is without question, and I'm pretty damn sure that he has a rejuvenated confidence in his abilities since breaking his duck.
Provided Honda can put a good car together, there is no reason what-so-ever why he wouldn't be challenging for the title.
Had you asked me that question last year, the answer would have been an emphatic "no!". IMHO, Button has matured immensely this year and if the form of the Honda at Interlagos is anything to go by, he could have a serious tilt next yar. I certainly don't see Alonso wining it. I think Button's greatest threat has to come from Raikkonen. Do I see anyone else putting together a decent run to the title?...possibly Massa and maybe Fisi if he keeps his motivation up.
richb said:
stevieb said:
stuttgartmetal said:
JB's double about term tells me he's about cash, not the championship.
Yes, I agree with you entirely
stuttgartmetal said:
World Champions don't luck in, they are fast out of the box, and noticeable.
Jensons just not got it.
Do his star shine like Massa's, or Alonsos, or Raikonens's ?
Honda look good short term, but Williams like McLaren are just a little bit more class.
I never got over the fact Honda dropped Frank Williams F1 outfit, because he was disabled, and gave their engine to Ron.
JB's double about term tells me he's about cash, not the championship.
Jensons just not got it.
Do his star shine like Massa's, or Alonsos, or Raikonens's ?
Honda look good short term, but Williams like McLaren are just a little bit more class.
I never got over the fact Honda dropped Frank Williams F1 outfit, because he was disabled, and gave their engine to Ron.
JB's double about term tells me he's about cash, not the championship.
Massa, a shining star?
rubystone said:
maybe Fisi if he keeps his motivation up.
I don't think Fisi will be anywhere near the title next year, unless Renault produce a car that is a class above anything else out there. You only have to look at him being passed by MS last weekend - he crumbled, locked up late and went of the track, whereas Kimi remained in control and in contention even though he was passed. I think Kovalainen has a decent chance of matching Fisi's points tally next year.
I can realistically only see 4 options for the championship next year Kimi/Massa, Alonso and Button as an outside bet depending on the car.
egomeister said:
rubystone said:
maybe Fisi if he keeps his motivation up.
I don't think Fisi will be anywhere near the title next year, unless Renault produce a car that is a class above anything else out there. You only have to look at him being passed by MS last weekend - he crumbled, locked up late and went of the track, whereas Kimi remained in control and in contention even though he was passed. I think Kovalainen has a decent chance of matching Fisi's points tally next year.
I can realistically only see 4 options for the championship next year Kimi/Massa, Alonso and Button as an outside bet depending on the car.
As I said, if he keeps his motivation up....he won't have Alonso in the same car beating him up, and he won't have Schumacher demotivating him. As to Kovalainen matching his tally don't forget that Kovalainen hasn't driven all of the F1 tracks yet. Look at Rosberg by way of example.
rubystone said:
As I said, if he keeps his motivation up....he won't have Alonso in the same car beating him up, and he won't have Schumacher demotivating him. As to Kovalainen matching his tally don't forget that Kovalainen hasn't driven all of the F1 tracks yet. Look at Rosberg by way of example.
Personally, I don't think its a motivation issue but a temprament issue. He's a decent enough second driver but I can't see him becoming one of F1's elite. He's too likely to crack under pressure - can you imagine him holding off Schumacher like Alonso did at Imola?
I'm hoping for big things from Heikki - sure he doesn't know the all the circuits but he's done massive milage in testing and shown himself to be quick and consistant. Rosberg didn't have the same experience of F1, and Heikki will have better resources around him at Renault that Nico does at Williams.
egomeister said:
rubystone said:
As I said, if he keeps his motivation up....he won't have Alonso in the same car beating him up, and he won't have Schumacher demotivating him. As to Kovalainen matching his tally don't forget that Kovalainen hasn't driven all of the F1 tracks yet. Look at Rosberg by way of example.
Personally, I don't think its a motivation issue but a temprament issue. He's a decent enough second driver but I can't see him becoming one of F1's elite. He's too likely to crack under pressure - can you imagine him holding off Schumacher like Alonso did at Imola?
I'm hoping for big things from Heikki - sure he doesn't know the all the circuits but he's done massive milage in testing and shown himself to be quick and consistant. Rosberg didn't have the same experience of F1, and Heikki will have better resources around him at Renault that Nico does at Williams.
Sure, I've tipped Kovalainen before as a great hope, but then I also expected great things of Jan Magnussen and Jyrki Jarvilehto...
I think you may be right on the temperament thing, but I'm sure that if Button starts to win races he'll step up to the plate.
I didn't call Massa a shining star, I said do[es] his star shine like.....
Do you not think Massa is a noticeable driver ?
Honda look better in the short term, I agree.
But they are no Williams.
They are no McLaren.
They don't have class.
You may think they do, but they don't, just take a look at their product.
Money men, not racers.
They hardly produce anything as good as a McMerc or F1
And my point here is that Honda are just a bit Chavvy.
I wouldn't trust them, as far as I could throw them, my point about them dropping Frank stands.
I bet FW laughed all the way to the bank when he got their money due to JB's mismanaged career pathway.
When Honda have the F1 experience of either Frank or Patrick, Ron or Mansour then come back and say they're up there with the greats, and they are the team to give you the championship
Never underestimate the boys from Grove.
JB's got his Hello shoot, his Fezza, and his bird.
Doughnut your 430 just one more time.
Go-on JB, because thats all you're going to have, and you know it.
He'll never be World Champion as long as there's a hole in his arsenal.
Champions are cosistently fast, not just where they like it, or know it.
JB is just like DC.
They are fast where they are happy.
stuttgartmetal said:
They don't have class.
You may think they do, but they don't, just take a look at their product.
Money men, not racers.
They hardly produce anything as good as a McMerc or F1
And my point here is that Honda are just a bit Chavvy.
I wouldn't trust them, as far as I could throw them, my point about them dropping Frank stands.
I bet FW laughed all the way to the bank when he got their money due to JB's mismanaged career pathway.
When Honda have the F1 experience of either Frank or Patrick, Ron or Mansour then come back and say they're up there with the greats, and they are the team to give you the championship
Never underestimate the boys from Grove.
Do you know what you are talking about?
ettore said:
stuttgartmetal said:
They don't have class.
You may think they do, but they don't, just take a look at their product.
Money men, not racers.
They hardly produce anything as good as a McMerc or F1
And my point here is that Honda are just a bit Chavvy.
I wouldn't trust them, as far as I could throw them, my point about them dropping Frank stands.
I bet FW laughed all the way to the bank when he got their money due to JB's mismanaged career pathway.
When Honda have the F1 experience of either Frank or Patrick, Ron or Mansour then come back and say they're up there with the greats, and they are the team to give you the championship
Never underestimate the boys from Grove.
Do you know what you are talking about?
Doesn't seem like it! Honda might not be perfect but Williams have a lot of catching up to do if they are to reach Honda's level!
ettore said:
Do you know what you are talking about?
stuttgartmetal said:
I can form an opinion based on my knowledge, whether its in tune with what your perceptions are isn't the issue, but I don't need to insult you.
egomeister said:
Doesn't seem like it! Honda might not be perfect but Williams have a lot of catching up to do if they are to reach Honda's level!
Your point is well made, and appreciated, however its short term.
Just how many F1 World Championships have Honda won ?
Engine manufacture is one thing, designing and constructing a World Championship winning team is another.
Do you imagine Williams in any way look up to Honda in terms of their pedigree ?
And if you do, whats that based on ?
Every team takes a down swing after consistent winning.
Ferarri, McLaren, Williams are no exception.
Do you think Williams are sitiing on their hands.
Its pretty obvious they've been developing next years car, I believe Toyota have already homologated their powerplant, so it will be available to integrate into the chasis design.
Whipping Hondas ass for previous corporate insults will be very satisfying for FW
Imagine taking a Toyota engine to tan Hondas hide, v satisfying indeed.
JB's a fool if he thinks Honda can deliver anything other than inconsistency.
He should have shown some backbone and supported Frank and Patrick, they are the reason he's not selling cars for a living in Somerset.
Well done Jenson, another tryer from the Bland University.
Previous attendees, Coulthard, Barrichello,Webber Fisichella et al.
Honda and Jenson deserve each other
Meanwhile Fernando Kimi will kick his ass from Australia to Brazil,[as Niki would say- blow hin into the weeds] whether they need to settle in to a new team or not.
Speed comes from within.
Edited by stuttgartmetal on Tuesday 24th October 18:54
And on the subject of arrogance, which I see so many times in relation to Jenson. I say what arrogance? He's no more arrogant than any other F1 driver. In fact he is one of the few top level drivers who has actually said on many occasions that they haven't got the performance to win the race, hardly arrogant. Although to be an F1 driver you do need to have the competitive streak, determination and arrogance to succeed.
Of course he has the potential to win next year, so have many others. Things just have to fall into place. With engines needing to be reliable more top cars finishing it's tougher to get into the high points scoring positions. Arguably better cars like the 2 Ferraris and 2 Renaults finishing a race means you're lucky to get 5th place. So he needs a bit of luck, good qualifying and good strategy.
As for pace he's certainly got that, he's wiped the floor with Rubens this year, don't forget that Rubens (in a Ferrari developed with MS in mind) could out qualify and out race Schumacher.
Of course he has the potential to win next year, so have many others. Things just have to fall into place. With engines needing to be reliable more top cars finishing it's tougher to get into the high points scoring positions. Arguably better cars like the 2 Ferraris and 2 Renaults finishing a race means you're lucky to get 5th place. So he needs a bit of luck, good qualifying and good strategy.
As for pace he's certainly got that, he's wiped the floor with Rubens this year, don't forget that Rubens (in a Ferrari developed with MS in mind) could out qualify and out race Schumacher.
FourWheelDrift said:
stuttgartmetal said:
Just how many F1 World Championships have Honda won ?
Drivers
1987 - Nelson Piquet
1988 - Ayrton Senna
1989 - Alain Prost
1990 - Ayrton Senna
1991 - Aryton Senna
Constructors
1986
1987
1988
1989
1990
1991
I think they know all about winning in F1.
How can you support that point ?
I don't remember them designing and constructing a team, I remember them producing a powerplant.
I think you'll find they got their engine into either a McLaren or Williams for your quotation.
Its a liitle bit different trying to do the lot don't you think ?
its a bit like calling tyre manufacturers, or BBS wheels world champions isn't it 4WD ?
Edited to add,
I don't think JB is at all arrogant, I think its an ingredient found in almost all World Champions, and that self belief gives a crushing edge. JB doesn't have that.
Edited by stuttgartmetal on Tuesday 24th October 19:18
stuttgartmetal said:
FourWheelDrift said:
stuttgartmetal said:
Just how many F1 World Championships have Honda won ?
Drivers
1987 - Nelson Piquet
1988 - Ayrton Senna
1989 - Alain Prost
1990 - Ayrton Senna
1991 - Aryton Senna
Constructors
1986
1987
1988
1989
1990
1991
I think they know all about winning in F1.
How can you support that point ?
I don't remember them designing and constructing a team, I remember them producing a powerplant.
I think you'll find they got their engine into either a McLaren or Williams for your quotation.
Its a liitle bit different trying to do the lot don't you think ?
its a bit like calling tyre manufacturers, or BBS wheels world champions isn't it 4WD ?
They are still involved as World Champion engine suppliers, just like the tyre manufacturers, fuel suppliers, brake suppliers and wheel suppliers all claim world championships. You will see it all on their advertising, if they didn't get the recognition of supplying and winning they wouldn't get involved. And Williams and McLaren wouldn't have won without them.
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