Zolder, 8th of May 1982...
Discussion
A very unfortunate loss.
The maker of the greatest battle in F1:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3tXJm9tYGM&mode=related&search=
But also one of the most tragic deaths:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzW3fqD93Hk&mode=related&search=
The maker of the greatest battle in F1:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3tXJm9tYGM&mode=related&search=
But also one of the most tragic deaths:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzW3fqD93Hk&mode=related&search=
Edited by Jungles on Tuesday 8th May 11:14
kevin ritson said:
Sad day indeed. Great Roebuck article in Autosport, worth buying.
The, online, taped interview by Nigel Roebuck is wonderful. (I hope Nigel gets paid enough to put more like that 'online'.)
..............
My favourite Gilles quote is when he is being interviewed by Nigel Roebuck after going off:
NR: You ran out of road?
GV: No, I ran out of lock.
..............
Whilst I'm (very) happy to read (and listen) to so much stuff about Gilles today I much rather he was still with us.
Some drive racing car but some are Racing Drivers.
RIP Gilles.
Edited by skeggysteve on Tuesday 8th May 23:45
I was 12 when Gilles died and he was my hero at the time. I remember the day well, sadly.
As well as the excellent Roebuck articles already mentioned (there's one in Motorsport magazine this month too) I can't recommend highly enough Gerald Donaldson's biography of Gilles. A truly riveting read.
RIP Gilles Villeneuve, the fastest racing driver ever.
As well as the excellent Roebuck articles already mentioned (there's one in Motorsport magazine this month too) I can't recommend highly enough Gerald Donaldson's biography of Gilles. A truly riveting read.
RIP Gilles Villeneuve, the fastest racing driver ever.
Trackside said:
.. I can't recommend highly enough Gerald Donaldson's biography of Gilles. A truly riveting read.
IMHO the best driver biography ever.
Donaldson's James Hunt Bio come a close second.
Trackside said:
...
RIP Gilles Villeneuve, the fastest racing driver ever.
RIP Gilles Villeneuve, the fastest racing driver ever.
He did not win the most races, drive the most fastest laps or win the most world championships but he was simply the fastest racing driver ever.
Or even ANY World Championships.
Adoration of Villeneuve does, to me, smack of the James Dean syndrome. Would people lionise him so much if he hadn't died?
I was a keen F1 follower during his heyday (1979 to 1982) and there is no doubt he was truly exciting to watch - but also extremely frustrating. Time after time he seemed to blow opportunities to win races which just used to annoy me. However, one must place him in the context of his times. By todays standards he would have been classified a lunatic driver. At that time, he was just slightly more extreme than some of his contemporaries.
When he crashed and died, I wasn't altogether surprised as he never knew when to back off and play the percentages. With time he may have learned to drive within himself a bit more - but time was something he wasn't to have.
Adoration of Villeneuve does, to me, smack of the James Dean syndrome. Would people lionise him so much if he hadn't died?
I was a keen F1 follower during his heyday (1979 to 1982) and there is no doubt he was truly exciting to watch - but also extremely frustrating. Time after time he seemed to blow opportunities to win races which just used to annoy me. However, one must place him in the context of his times. By todays standards he would have been classified a lunatic driver. At that time, he was just slightly more extreme than some of his contemporaries.
When he crashed and died, I wasn't altogether surprised as he never knew when to back off and play the percentages. With time he may have learned to drive within himself a bit more - but time was something he wasn't to have.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 9th May 08:29
Eric Mc said:
Or even ANY World Championships.
Adoration of Villeneuve does, to me, smack of the James Dean syndrome. Would people lionise him so much if he hadn't died?
I was a keen F1 follower during his heyday (1979 to 1982) and there is no doubt he was truly exciting to watch - but also extremely frustrating. Time after time he seemed to blow opportunities to win races which just used to annoy me. However, one must place him in the context of his times. By todays standards he would have been classified a lunatic driver. At that time, he was just slightly more extreme than some of his contemporaries.
When he crashed and died, I wasn't altogether surprised as he never knew when to back off and play the percentages. With time he may have learned to drive within himself a bit more - but time was something he wasn't to have.
Adoration of Villeneuve does, to me, smack of the James Dean syndrome. Would people lionise him so much if he hadn't died?
I was a keen F1 follower during his heyday (1979 to 1982) and there is no doubt he was truly exciting to watch - but also extremely frustrating. Time after time he seemed to blow opportunities to win races which just used to annoy me. However, one must place him in the context of his times. By todays standards he would have been classified a lunatic driver. At that time, he was just slightly more extreme than some of his contemporaries.
When he crashed and died, I wasn't altogether surprised as he never knew when to back off and play the percentages. With time he may have learned to drive within himself a bit more - but time was something he wasn't to have.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 9th May 08:29
my father brought me up with stories of villeneuve and toivenen thus i adore drivers who express themselves through the car, something lost on the likes of ralf schumacher et al. if everyone played the percentage game, life would be very dull indeed.
i dont idolise him because he is dead and i think you do a lot of villeneuve suppoters a discredit by saying so, i admired his passion and refusal to be constrained by inferior machinery...
Eric Mc said:
Or even ANY World Championships.
Adoration of Villeneuve does, to me, smack of the James Dean syndrome. Would people lionise him so much if he hadn't died?
I was a keen F1 follower during his heyday (1979 to 1982) and there is no doubt he was truly exciting to watch - but also extremely frustrating. Time after time he seemed to blow opportunities to win races which just used to annoy me. However, one must place him in the context of his times. By todays standards he would have been classified a lunatic driver. At that time, he was just slightly more extreme than some of his contemporaries.
When he crashed and died, I wasn't altogether surprised as he never knew when to back off and play the percentages. With time he may have learned to drive within himself a bit more - but time was something he wasn't to have.
Adoration of Villeneuve does, to me, smack of the James Dean syndrome. Would people lionise him so much if he hadn't died?
I was a keen F1 follower during his heyday (1979 to 1982) and there is no doubt he was truly exciting to watch - but also extremely frustrating. Time after time he seemed to blow opportunities to win races which just used to annoy me. However, one must place him in the context of his times. By todays standards he would have been classified a lunatic driver. At that time, he was just slightly more extreme than some of his contemporaries.
When he crashed and died, I wasn't altogether surprised as he never knew when to back off and play the percentages. With time he may have learned to drive within himself a bit more - but time was something he wasn't to have.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 9th May 08:29
I was born in 1985, so I never watched Gilles racing for real... I don't think Gilles is idolised. I think he is remembered because he drove with heart, he always tried, backing off and playing percentages should be left to Alonso and the like... What I do know is that my father always said that Gilles was the best and to a little kid things like that mean a lot. As I got older I learned more about him and I started to agree. My OP had the intention of remembering one of F1's true greats, no James Dean syndrome, and to be perfectly honest, I find that suggestion slightly offensive. I think today's F1 is a load of shite, and I happen to think that Gilles and his era represent what F1 really should be.
I'm currently readin Mon Ami Mate and there's a chapter in there on Stirling Moss. Much of Stirling's character involved going for the win as it did with Gilles and he is still regarded as one of the very greatest so perhaps we would still idolise Gilles. After all, much of this comes from the romantic notion that a racing driver always gives his very best, is this not why Nigel Mansell had such a great following? He may not win every race but you knew, during his pomp at least, that he was giving it his all.
Steve - is the Roebuck interview free content on the site? Much of Autosport.com is restricted these days so I very rarely check the site.
Steve - is the Roebuck interview free content on the site? Much of Autosport.com is restricted these days so I very rarely check the site.
I am not surprised that the two who have expressed the greatest admiration for GV are two who never saw him race "in period". That, I think, supports my view that he has acquired "legendary" status.
You have to remember that, at that time, there were other drivers who drove as much with heart as with head - Mansell and Rosberg for a start - and both of them went on to achieve what Villeneuve never did.
In Villeneuve's first full F1 season (1978) we also had Ronnie Peterson - who, in many ways, was cut from a similar mould.
I well remember watching the 1979 Dutch GP where Villeneuve destroyed a car that originally spun off the road with a slow puncture. All he had to do was cruise at a resonable speed back to the pits to get his wheels changed. But, being Gilles, he tried to hare back to the pits at undiminished speed, therefore destroying the back end of the car and putting him out of the race. At the time I was yelling at the screen "Slow down" as I watched various suspension components slide out from underneath the rear of the car.
There is no doubt that he was entertaining to watch and, according to people who knew him, he didn't possess the inherent "backstabbing" mentality that is normally expected of those who want to "get on", whether in motor sport or elsewhere.
I admire him more for than latter than anything else.
You have to remember that, at that time, there were other drivers who drove as much with heart as with head - Mansell and Rosberg for a start - and both of them went on to achieve what Villeneuve never did.
In Villeneuve's first full F1 season (1978) we also had Ronnie Peterson - who, in many ways, was cut from a similar mould.
I well remember watching the 1979 Dutch GP where Villeneuve destroyed a car that originally spun off the road with a slow puncture. All he had to do was cruise at a resonable speed back to the pits to get his wheels changed. But, being Gilles, he tried to hare back to the pits at undiminished speed, therefore destroying the back end of the car and putting him out of the race. At the time I was yelling at the screen "Slow down" as I watched various suspension components slide out from underneath the rear of the car.
There is no doubt that he was entertaining to watch and, according to people who knew him, he didn't possess the inherent "backstabbing" mentality that is normally expected of those who want to "get on", whether in motor sport or elsewhere.
I admire him more for than latter than anything else.
Eric Mc said:
I well remember watching the 1979 Dutch GP where Villeneuve destroyed a car that originally spun off the road with a slow puncture. All he had to do was cruise at a resonable speed back to the pits to get his wheels changed. But, being Gilles, he tried to hare back to the pits at undiminished speed, therefore destroying the back end of the car and putting him out of the race. At the time I was yelling at the screen "Slow down" as I watched various suspension components slide out from underneath the rear of the car.
I watched that, too, my recollection is that James Hunt was absolutely scathing in his criticism of Villeneuve's actions, but that Nigel Roebuck, and others, were much more tolerant.
I'm no fan of hero-worship, but it's a fact of life - contrast the generally-held opinion of Senna in the late eighties/early nineties with his status now.
GV was before my time (only just), but I have respect for the man because he pushed the boundaries of the human-car capability more than any other driver I have watched.
He was foolishly reckless, but there can be no doubt in my mind that he strove to inject that impossible 1% extra into what was already 100%. I really can't think of any driver who has truly done that - not even Senna, or those who have attempted land speed records.
No need for idolatry though.
He was foolishly reckless, but there can be no doubt in my mind that he strove to inject that impossible 1% extra into what was already 100%. I really can't think of any driver who has truly done that - not even Senna, or those who have attempted land speed records.
No need for idolatry though.
Back in 1979 I knew nothing of Roebuck. I first came across him in 1983 when he supplied the narrative comments to Michael Turner's fabulous book "Formula One". I realised then that Roebuck was a huge fan. However, Roebuck liked Villeneuve,not so much because he was a fast and brave driver, but that he was a "simple" person with no "side". He always spoke his mind and was essentially honest. All these characterictics were (and still are) noteably lacking in most F1 partcipants.
I also remember reading stories about a lot of criticism after the 1979 French GP, fingers being pointed at the drivers' briefing at the next race. Except Mario Andretti who, when questioned said "Nothing to worry about, just a coupl'a young lions clawing at each other"
People love a trier, it's not just about breaking the records, that's why Schuey doesn't enjoy universal admiration.
People love a trier, it's not just about breaking the records, that's why Schuey doesn't enjoy universal admiration.
Eric Mc said:
I am not surprised that the two who have expressed the greatest admiration for GV are two who never saw him race "in period". That, I think, supports my view that he has acquired "legendary" status.
You have to remember that, at that time, there were other drivers who drove as much with heart as with head - Mansell and Rosberg for a start - and both of them went on to achieve what Villeneuve never did.
In Villeneuve's first full F1 season (1978) we also had Ronnie Peterson - who, in many ways, was cut from a similar mould.
I well remember watching the 1979 Dutch GP where Villeneuve destroyed a car that originally spun off the road with a slow puncture. All he had to do was cruise at a resonable speed back to the pits to get his wheels changed. But, being Gilles, he tried to hare back to the pits at undiminished speed, therefore destroying the back end of the car and putting him out of the race. At the time I was yelling at the screen "Slow down" as I watched various suspension components slide out from underneath the rear of the car.
There is no doubt that he was entertaining to watch and, according to people who knew him, he didn't possess the inherent "backstabbing" mentality that is normally expected of those who want to "get on", whether in motor sport or elsewhere.
I admire him more for than latter than anything else.
You have to remember that, at that time, there were other drivers who drove as much with heart as with head - Mansell and Rosberg for a start - and both of them went on to achieve what Villeneuve never did.
In Villeneuve's first full F1 season (1978) we also had Ronnie Peterson - who, in many ways, was cut from a similar mould.
I well remember watching the 1979 Dutch GP where Villeneuve destroyed a car that originally spun off the road with a slow puncture. All he had to do was cruise at a resonable speed back to the pits to get his wheels changed. But, being Gilles, he tried to hare back to the pits at undiminished speed, therefore destroying the back end of the car and putting him out of the race. At the time I was yelling at the screen "Slow down" as I watched various suspension components slide out from underneath the rear of the car.
There is no doubt that he was entertaining to watch and, according to people who knew him, he didn't possess the inherent "backstabbing" mentality that is normally expected of those who want to "get on", whether in motor sport or elsewhere.
I admire him more for than latter than anything else.
i am sure i am reading this wrong but are you implying that because i did not see him race in the period, i do not have a valid opinion on the matter? surely not? i can not believe you would be so arrogant?!? i have never seen duncan edwards or john charles play football "in the period" but recognise their talents as being world class.
take paul gascoinge for example, i loved him because he was skillful and a proper character, age 11, i was shouting at the telly in Italia '90 begging him not to make a tackle knowing a yellow card would leave him suspended from the final but he played with his heart and made the tackles anyway, inevitably he got booked, cried and then proceeded to play a blinder for the team. he couldnt change how he played just like villeneuve could never have driven with his head and played the "percentage game".
pablo said:
Eric Mc said:
I am not surprised that the two who have expressed the greatest admiration for GV are two who never saw him race "in period". That, I think, supports my view that he has acquired "legendary" status.
You have to remember that, at that time, there were other drivers who drove as much with heart as with head - Mansell and Rosberg for a start - and both of them went on to achieve what Villeneuve never did.
In Villeneuve's first full F1 season (1978) we also had Ronnie Peterson - who, in many ways, was cut from a similar mould.
I well remember watching the 1979 Dutch GP where Villeneuve destroyed a car that originally spun off the road with a slow puncture. All he had to do was cruise at a resonable speed back to the pits to get his wheels changed. But, being Gilles, he tried to hare back to the pits at undiminished speed, therefore destroying the back end of the car and putting him out of the race. At the time I was yelling at the screen "Slow down" as I watched various suspension components slide out from underneath the rear of the car.
There is no doubt that he was entertaining to watch and, according to people who knew him, he didn't possess the inherent "backstabbing" mentality that is normally expected of those who want to "get on", whether in motor sport or elsewhere.
I admire him more for than latter than anything else.
You have to remember that, at that time, there were other drivers who drove as much with heart as with head - Mansell and Rosberg for a start - and both of them went on to achieve what Villeneuve never did.
In Villeneuve's first full F1 season (1978) we also had Ronnie Peterson - who, in many ways, was cut from a similar mould.
I well remember watching the 1979 Dutch GP where Villeneuve destroyed a car that originally spun off the road with a slow puncture. All he had to do was cruise at a resonable speed back to the pits to get his wheels changed. But, being Gilles, he tried to hare back to the pits at undiminished speed, therefore destroying the back end of the car and putting him out of the race. At the time I was yelling at the screen "Slow down" as I watched various suspension components slide out from underneath the rear of the car.
There is no doubt that he was entertaining to watch and, according to people who knew him, he didn't possess the inherent "backstabbing" mentality that is normally expected of those who want to "get on", whether in motor sport or elsewhere.
I admire him more for than latter than anything else.
i am sure i am reading this wrong but are you implying that because i did not see him race in the period, i do not have a valid opinion on the matter? surely not? i can not believe you would be so arrogant?!? i have never seen duncan edwards or john charles play football "in the period" but recognise their talents as being world class.
take paul gascoinge for example, i loved him because he was skillful and a proper character, age 11, i was shouting at the telly in Italia '90 begging him not to make a tackle knowing a yellow card would leave him suspended from the final but he played with his heart and made the tackles anyway, inevitably he got booked, cried and then proceeded to play a blinder for the team. he couldnt change how he played just like villeneuve could never have driven with his head and played the "percentage game".
What he said... (well apart from the Gascoigne thing, I'm foreign y'see).
pablo - yes, I can confirm that you are reading it wrong.
You are missing my point completely - maybe it's an age thing.
Some of my favourite racing drivers are drivers those who competed before I was born or was able to see them race "in period" (Clark, Moss, Nuvolari etc etc). It doesn't mean I can't have an opinion of them. What I am lacking though, due to not being around when they were actually racing, is the fact that I was not exposed to what contemporary opinion of those people were AT THAT TIME.
You chaps are in the same position with Gilles Villeneuve.
No doubt, some of my opinion of Villeneuve's reclessness and seeming inability to finish races was down to listening to comments by James Hunt and Murray Walker when watching the races on TV. The sheer frustration of seeing him seemingly throw away races was extremely annoying.
I would highly recommend getting hold of old motor sport magazines for the years 1978 to 1982 (such as Autopsort or Motorsport) and read up on what the F1 reporters OF THE DAY thought about Villenueve.
You are missing my point completely - maybe it's an age thing.
Some of my favourite racing drivers are drivers those who competed before I was born or was able to see them race "in period" (Clark, Moss, Nuvolari etc etc). It doesn't mean I can't have an opinion of them. What I am lacking though, due to not being around when they were actually racing, is the fact that I was not exposed to what contemporary opinion of those people were AT THAT TIME.
You chaps are in the same position with Gilles Villeneuve.
No doubt, some of my opinion of Villeneuve's reclessness and seeming inability to finish races was down to listening to comments by James Hunt and Murray Walker when watching the races on TV. The sheer frustration of seeing him seemingly throw away races was extremely annoying.
I would highly recommend getting hold of old motor sport magazines for the years 1978 to 1982 (such as Autopsort or Motorsport) and read up on what the F1 reporters OF THE DAY thought about Villenueve.
good comments and thanks for the clarification, i thought as much!. i'll dig out some old motor sports and have a look but surely the GP reports will have been written by DSJ who was a bit of a fan of the more passionate drivers! i am not saying my opinion of villeneuve is made up but reading press reports about wasted chances to win races is only put into perspective now, when we can look back and realise how short his life was. it was impossible to predict his death so they surely will not be written as wasted chances, just racing?
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