Does Brawn's arrival turn Honda into a '08 challenger?

[hostile17]

Get Karter said:

Can one man a team make?

In Brawn's case, I think he could make a real difference. Honda have been lacking that single-minded organisational focus that Ferrari had in the early 2000s, where you felt that they have every single eventuality covered.

A friend just texted me his take on what Brawn's first words to the Honda workforce will be: "Stop f***ing about."

[flemke]

10 Pence Short said:

Get Karter said:

Can one man a team make?
How long has Adrian Newey been at Red Bull?
They haven't exactly become title challengers, despite his pedigree.
I reckon Ross Brawn will find success harder to come by than he might imagine.

I hope I'm wrong, as I like Honda, I like Brawn and I like Barrichello and Button.

Newey had a very quick and dramatic impact on reliability this year. Just look at the results, on occasions the cars nearly got to the finish!

Odd that you would say that, 10 PS.
My take would be that Newey's remit had little to do with reliability and, over the years, he has been known for designing aero surfaces that are so tight that they actually create reliablility problems because of compromised cooling.

[Hut49]

hostile17 said:

Get Karter said:

Can one man a team make?

In Brawn's case, I think he could make a real difference. Honda have been lacking that single-minded organisational focus that Ferrari had in the early 2000s, where you felt that they have every single eventuality covered.

A friend just texted me his take on what Brawn's first words to the Honda workforce will be: "Stop f***ing about."

Probably shortly to be followed by "Stop f***ing me about" to Honda's management in Japan

[Casino]

Hut49 said:

hostile17 said:

Get Karter said:

Can one man a team make?

In Brawn's case, I think he could make a real difference. Honda have been lacking that single-minded organisational focus that Ferrari had in the early 2000s, where you felt that they have every single eventuality covered.

A friend just texted me his take on what Brawn's first words to the Honda workforce will be: "Stop f***ing about."

Probably shortly to be followed by "Stop f***ing me about" to Honda's management in Japan

"Stop f***ing about"?....Stop f***ing dreaming would be a better call to action. Afterall the Honda power of dreams has got them nowhere.

Wonder if McLaren tried to get Brawn ?

[Ramthorne]

I suspect that this deal has been done for sometime, probably since he was last wearing red overals

[BigBen]

flemke said:

10 Pence Short said:

Get Karter said:

Can one man a team make?
How long has Adrian Newey been at Red Bull?
They haven't exactly become title challengers, despite his pedigree.
I reckon Ross Brawn will find success harder to come by than he might imagine.

I hope I'm wrong, as I like Honda, I like Brawn and I like Barrichello and Button.

Newey had a very quick and dramatic impact on reliability this year. Just look at the results, on occasions the cars nearly got to the finish!

Odd that you would say that, 10 PS.
My take would be that Newey's remit had little to do with reliability and, over the years, he has been known for designing aero surfaces that are so tight that they actually create reliablility problems because of compromised cooling.

The Red Bull car seemed to pick up its pace quite dramatically towards the end of the last season which was about in line with the time it would have taken for Newey's input to filter through. Will see what happens in 08 but I think they will do well

Ben

[10 Pence Short]

flemke said:

10 Pence Short said:

Get Karter said:

Can one man a team make?
How long has Adrian Newey been at Red Bull?
They haven't exactly become title challengers, despite his pedigree.
I reckon Ross Brawn will find success harder to come by than he might imagine.

I hope I'm wrong, as I like Honda, I like Brawn and I like Barrichello and Button.

Newey had a very quick and dramatic impact on reliability this year. Just look at the results, on occasions the cars nearly got to the finish!

Odd that you would say that, 10 PS.
My take would be that Newey's remit had little to do with reliability and, over the years, he has been known for designing aero surfaces that are so tight that they actually create reliablility problems because of compromised cooling.

I seem to remember McLaren's (lack of) reliability being a bigger Newey hallmark than their on and off speed!

It certainly wasn't a surprise that the Newey Red Bull A) looked pretty good and B) good job too, it needed to be when the TV producer ordered a zoomed shot of Mark Webber pulling it onto the grass trackside again.

[rubystone]

flemke said:

10 Pence Short said:

Get Karter said:

Can one man a team make?
How long has Adrian Newey been at Red Bull?
They haven't exactly become title challengers, despite his pedigree.
I reckon Ross Brawn will find success harder to come by than he might imagine.

I hope I'm wrong, as I like Honda, I like Brawn and I like Barrichello and Button.

Newey had a very quick and dramatic impact on reliability this year. Just look at the results, on occasions the cars nearly got to the finish!

Odd that you would say that, 10 PS.
My take would be that Newey's remit had little to do with reliability and, over the years, he has been known for designing aero surfaces that are so tight that they actually create reliablility problems because of compromised cooling.

Yes, my thoughts too. The challenge for McLaren was always about reliability

[nioks]

Get Karter said:

Can one man a team make?

BAR/Honda did very well, and were snapping at the heels of Ferrari, when David Richards was in charge. I think this is just what they need. So in this case, bearing in mind the pedigree of Ross Brawn, yes. As long a they bin the 07 car of course!

[Get Karter]

Well I hope that both Brawn and Newey can partially match their previous successes.

I'd prefer to see a title battle between Red Bull and Honda than yet another Ferrari v McLaren year.
The also-rans have been also-rans for too long now (excepting Renault). Its like Scottish league football. I stopped watching it 10 years ago, and I've missed nothing.

[Avantone]

So does this mean Brawn was as good as signed at the end of 2006 and therefore the sabbatical year was more a case of actively protecting Ferrari IP than a breather?

[Hut49]

Avantone said:

So does this mean Brawn was as good as signed at the end of 2006 and therefore the sabbatical year was more a case of actively protecting Ferrari IP than a breather?

Probably a clause in his Ferrari contract required him to have a "sabbatical" 12 month before joining a F1 competitor.

[uktrailmonster]

To answer the question in the thread title - no it doesn't!

[Teppic]

uktrailmonster said:

To answer the question in the thread title - no it doesn't!

Correct. The 2008 design has already been signed off, so anything that Brawn does to it will be just tinkering, unless they decide to introduce a 'B' spec car mid-season.

[JonRB]

Teppic said:

Correct. The 2008 design has already been signed off, so anything that Brawn does to it will be just tinkering, unless they decide to introduce a 'B' spec car mid-season.

The car may be signed off, but Brawn isn't a car designer. He can make far more of a contribution in a far shorter space of time by galvanising the team and by race strategy.

I think he could really turn the team round.

[Mr_Thyroid]

_Batty_ said:

thinking how long it took to turn Ferrari around,

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't '97 Brawns first full season at Ferrari when the Schumi cocked it up in the final round. And didn't they take the challenge to the final round in '98 and in '99 again a final round decider with Irvine!! as the lead driver.

[skinny]

i think honda's problems are more inherent in their structure than one man can remedy.

and as shallow as it is, i don't want the earth car to win, it would just encourage them

[Hut49]

That myearthdream image has done what it was designed to do - secure some credits for Honda on the global stage by associating the corporation with environmental responsibility. It has fulfilled its purpose as a campaign but now it is unfortunately linked to abject failure within the Honda Racing camp. So you can be pretty sure that next year's car won't be dressed like this. I expect a really strong black/white/red Honda branding in the '08 car. Interesting video interview with Ross Brawn now on Honda Racing's website http://www.hondaracingf1.com/hiband/

[motormania]

I have to say that on hearing this announcement, I really have to take my hat off to Ross.

He could have probably taken the easy route and finished his career with Ferrari and be paid a pretty large salary to boot too.

However, the engineer in him has come to the fore and I applaude him for taking the risk and jumping into what is a shambles of a team following a season they would all like to forget.

It's an interesting thought about the deal having been already secured in 06 and Ferrari forcing him to sit out 07, but let's be honest, do you really think that Ferrari's data up to the end of 06 which is in Brawn's head will not be of huge value to Honda, and that Ross would not use any of it? That's not just engineering data, but also strategy and operations.

Don't expect much in 08, but in 09 you can bet that Honda will finally be running in their sweet spot and Button will finally have the equipment ready to deliver - however, what if Alonso was do sign a 1 year deal in 08 and then switch to a Ross Brawn 08 Honda challenger...

F1 one might just get back to excitement on the track and not the shite off it we have had to endure this year. Let's just hope that Mad Max either stands down sooner rather than later.

[aeropilot]

nioks said:

Get Karter said:

Can one man a team make?

BAR/Honda did very well, and were snapping at the heels of Ferrari, when David Richards was in charge. I think this is just what they need. So in this case, bearing in mind the pedigree of Ross Brawn, yes. As long a they bin the 07 car of course!

Except Richards was the first casulty of Honda taking full control of the team....and everything went downhill from there, which was no real surprise to anyone that understands the Japanese 'problem'.

Which is why I never understood Button staying on......

Ducati have just broken the 34 year Japanese stranglehold in Moto GP with a a small team and a fraction of the budget within a few years of joining the party........

I hope Brawn knows what he's doing....unless he has performed a miricle and got the agreement of 'you provide the cheques and engines, leave me to do the rest' arrangement....

We'll see......