Another Sad example of money not talent buying rides.....!
Discussion
jellison said:
NightDriver said:
jellison said:
NightDriver said:
stockhatcher said:
i think you are being both a bit hard on the mansells and a bit naive about motorsport and the world in general.
leo and greg had little or no racing experience before taking to cars, that puts you at a disadvantage to those who have done 10 years of karting, not withstanding who your dad is. equally when you look at something like fbmw you can see that the grid is full of kids with rich daddies, so i don't see that the mansells are in anyway different.
as for money taking a big decision in who drives where, this has always been the case and i am of the opinion that being a good(ace) driver does not mean you are more deserving of a drive than a plodder who's worked hard for his cash and bought the drive. think johnny herbert to damon hill.
motorsport reflects life quite well, anyone whose worked in a big business long enough to see personnel changes will be often left scratching their head as to how someone so incompetant can be promoted above them.... its mainly because they have other skills that are more or just as relevant as doing a good job -like an ability to build relationships with 'da management'
just my tuppence worth
Have to agree with you. People only tend to get on in motorsport if they have a) money and b) contacts. Nigel Mansell has both so its no suprise his kids are moving up.leo and greg had little or no racing experience before taking to cars, that puts you at a disadvantage to those who have done 10 years of karting, not withstanding who your dad is. equally when you look at something like fbmw you can see that the grid is full of kids with rich daddies, so i don't see that the mansells are in anyway different.
as for money taking a big decision in who drives where, this has always been the case and i am of the opinion that being a good(ace) driver does not mean you are more deserving of a drive than a plodder who's worked hard for his cash and bought the drive. think johnny herbert to damon hill.
motorsport reflects life quite well, anyone whose worked in a big business long enough to see personnel changes will be often left scratching their head as to how someone so incompetant can be promoted above them.... its mainly because they have other skills that are more or just as relevant as doing a good job -like an ability to build relationships with 'da management'
just my tuppence worth
Its not the way it should be but its the way it has been for years and will continue to be.
As I said, this is not the way it should be and these two guys should realise there not cut out for it. But, if an opportunity like this is offered to them you cant blame them for taking it up.
Ever thought of trying another brand of car?
I have tried many different race series' and I've found this the case in most. Where I am at the moment is an exception to this as the drivers are not relied upon to bring the money in, if there not doing the job they get told about it!
rubystone said:
I'm far from naive - I have a number of friends in the motorpsort industry. One in particular ran TCars for several years
Not a certain Mr Hathaway per chance. jellison said:
lazyitus said:
Hang on a minute.
These lads obviously want to race cars and are fortunate to have the family money to enable them to do it at their chosen level.
Who are we to dictate whether or not they are deserving of a place on any grid ?
They might not be front runners but they're doing something that they want to do.
It's an expensive sport and always will be. I'd love to be able to do it at that level (although my talent is probably far from near) but don't have the funds. It's a tough world but just because I can't do it, doesn't mean that I begrudge others who are more fortunate.
What do you suggest, that Mansell funds somebody elses kids just because they might have more talent ?
Nige' should be telling his kids they just don't cut it and to get a real job - what happens when they fianlly realise when he does finally get pissed off with bank rolling them and they have achived nothing - what do they do then - oh yes just go back to dad for more cash............These lads obviously want to race cars and are fortunate to have the family money to enable them to do it at their chosen level.
Who are we to dictate whether or not they are deserving of a place on any grid ?
They might not be front runners but they're doing something that they want to do.
It's an expensive sport and always will be. I'd love to be able to do it at that level (although my talent is probably far from near) but don't have the funds. It's a tough world but just because I can't do it, doesn't mean that I begrudge others who are more fortunate.
What do you suggest, that Mansell funds somebody elses kids just because they might have more talent ?
Edited by lazyitus on Wednesday 14th November 14:01
He could probably subsidise their 'careers' for the next 20 years if he wanted to. Plus, I'm sure he gets loads of enjoyment still being involved with the sport.
The name 'Mansell' is massive and I suspect that plenty of cash is ploughed in by sponsors anyway, so I doubt there are any real losers in the whole scenario.
To me, the family Mansell are just enjoying their lives being involved in Motorsport, which is the sport that made them multi-millionaires anyway. They're fortunate people and I don't think any other family in the country would do any different in the same circumstances.
rubystone said:
The Mansells just don't have what it takes to get to the top. That's the only point I was really making. I don't care whether they are bankrolled or not. Oh and just cos you don't have a full karting background doesn't mean that your natural talent can't shine through...didn't Bruno Senna have little or no karting experience when he started racing a couple of seasons ago?
That's a bit unfair on Greg at least, who turned in some handy results in F3 this year, results quite comparable to Bruno Senna's first year of F3, and better than several second-year drivers.
lazyitus said:
jellison said:
lazyitus said:
Hang on a minute.
These lads obviously want to race cars and are fortunate to have the family money to enable them to do it at their chosen level.
Who are we to dictate whether or not they are deserving of a place on any grid ?
They might not be front runners but they're doing something that they want to do.
It's an expensive sport and always will be. I'd love to be able to do it at that level (although my talent is probably far from near) but don't have the funds. It's a tough world but just because I can't do it, doesn't mean that I begrudge others who are more fortunate.
What do you suggest, that Mansell funds somebody elses kids just because they might have more talent?
To be honest if I had a son that was a slow driver - I'd take him out and shoot him.
Mind you if he was interested in football he would long since been terminated.............
Nige' should be telling his kids they just don't cut it and to get a real job - what happens when they fianlly realise when he does finally get pissed off with bank rolling them and they have achived nothing - what do they do then - oh yes just go back to dad for more cash............These lads obviously want to race cars and are fortunate to have the family money to enable them to do it at their chosen level.
Who are we to dictate whether or not they are deserving of a place on any grid ?
They might not be front runners but they're doing something that they want to do.
It's an expensive sport and always will be. I'd love to be able to do it at that level (although my talent is probably far from near) but don't have the funds. It's a tough world but just because I can't do it, doesn't mean that I begrudge others who are more fortunate.
What do you suggest, that Mansell funds somebody elses kids just because they might have more talent?
To be honest if I had a son that was a slow driver - I'd take him out and shoot him.
Mind you if he was interested in football he would long since been terminated.............
Edited by lazyitus on Wednesday 14th November 14:01
He could probably subsidise their 'careers' for the next 20 years if he wanted to. Plus, I'm sure he gets loads of enjoyment still being involved with the sport.
The name 'Mansell' is massive and I suspect that plenty of cash is ploughed in by sponsors anyway, so I doubt there are any real losers in the whole scenario.
To me, the family Mansell are just enjoying their lives being involved in Motorsport, which is the sport that made them multi-millionaires anyway. They're fortunate people and I don't think any other family in the country would do any different in the same circumstances.
Edited by jellison on Wednesday 14th November 14:52
jellison said:
lazyitus said:
jellison said:
lazyitus said:
Hang on a minute.
These lads obviously want to race cars and are fortunate to have the family money to enable them to do it at their chosen level.
Who are we to dictate whether or not they are deserving of a place on any grid ?
They might not be front runners but they're doing something that they want to do.
It's an expensive sport and always will be. I'd love to be able to do it at that level (although my talent is probably far from near) but don't have the funds. It's a tough world but just because I can't do it, doesn't mean that I begrudge others who are more fortunate.
What do you suggest, that Mansell funds somebody elses kids just because they might have more talent?
To be honest if I had a son that was a slow driver - I'd take him out and shoot him.
Mind you if he was interested in football he would long since been terminated.............
Nige' should be telling his kids they just don't cut it and to get a real job - what happens when they fianlly realise when he does finally get pissed off with bank rolling them and they have achived nothing - what do they do then - oh yes just go back to dad for more cash............These lads obviously want to race cars and are fortunate to have the family money to enable them to do it at their chosen level.
Who are we to dictate whether or not they are deserving of a place on any grid ?
They might not be front runners but they're doing something that they want to do.
It's an expensive sport and always will be. I'd love to be able to do it at that level (although my talent is probably far from near) but don't have the funds. It's a tough world but just because I can't do it, doesn't mean that I begrudge others who are more fortunate.
What do you suggest, that Mansell funds somebody elses kids just because they might have more talent?
To be honest if I had a son that was a slow driver - I'd take him out and shoot him.
Mind you if he was interested in football he would long since been terminated.............
Edited by lazyitus on Wednesday 14th November 14:01
He could probably subsidise their 'careers' for the next 20 years if he wanted to. Plus, I'm sure he gets loads of enjoyment still being involved with the sport.
The name 'Mansell' is massive and I suspect that plenty of cash is ploughed in by sponsors anyway, so I doubt there are any real losers in the whole scenario.
To me, the family Mansell are just enjoying their lives being involved in Motorsport, which is the sport that made them multi-millionaires anyway. They're fortunate people and I don't think any other family in the country would do any different in the same circumstances.
So if you were a multi-millionaire, more money than you could spend type of guy and your two sons wanted to get involved with a sport that made you what you were, you'd make them get a regular 9-5 job selling pigbits from a butchers in the high street ?
I'm glad you're not my Dad.
Jellisons child - "Dad, may I have a Scalextric for Christmas please?"
Jellison - "No, you can make do with a Tangerine whilst I go and count my fortune in the west wing."
lazyitus said:
jellison said:
lazyitus said:
jellison said:
lazyitus said:
Hang on a minute.
These lads obviously want to race cars and are fortunate to have the family money to enable them to do it at their chosen level.
Who are we to dictate whether or not they are deserving of a place on any grid ?
They might not be front runners but they're doing something that they want to do.
It's an expensive sport and always will be. I'd love to be able to do it at that level (although my talent is probably far from near) but don't have the funds. It's a tough world but just because I can't do it, doesn't mean that I begrudge others who are more fortunate.
What do you suggest, that Mansell funds somebody elses kids just because they might have more talent?
To be honest if I had a son that was a slow driver - I'd take him out and shoot him.
Mind you if he was interested in football he would long since been terminated.............
Nige' should be telling his kids they just don't cut it and to get a real job - what happens when they fianlly realise when he does finally get pissed off with bank rolling them and they have achived nothing - what do they do then - oh yes just go back to dad for more cash............These lads obviously want to race cars and are fortunate to have the family money to enable them to do it at their chosen level.
Who are we to dictate whether or not they are deserving of a place on any grid ?
They might not be front runners but they're doing something that they want to do.
It's an expensive sport and always will be. I'd love to be able to do it at that level (although my talent is probably far from near) but don't have the funds. It's a tough world but just because I can't do it, doesn't mean that I begrudge others who are more fortunate.
What do you suggest, that Mansell funds somebody elses kids just because they might have more talent?
To be honest if I had a son that was a slow driver - I'd take him out and shoot him.
Mind you if he was interested in football he would long since been terminated.............
Edited by lazyitus on Wednesday 14th November 14:01
He could probably subsidise their 'careers' for the next 20 years if he wanted to. Plus, I'm sure he gets loads of enjoyment still being involved with the sport.
The name 'Mansell' is massive and I suspect that plenty of cash is ploughed in by sponsors anyway, so I doubt there are any real losers in the whole scenario.
To me, the family Mansell are just enjoying their lives being involved in Motorsport, which is the sport that made them multi-millionaires anyway. They're fortunate people and I don't think any other family in the country would do any different in the same circumstances.
So if you were a multi-millionaire, more money than you could spend type of guy and your two sons wanted to get involved with a sport that made you what you were, you'd make them get a regular 9-5 job selling pigbits from a butchers in the high street ?
I'm glad you're not my Dad.
Jellisons child - "Dad, may I have a Scalextric for Christmas please?"
Jellison - "No, you can make do with a Tangerine whilst I go and count my fortune in the west wing."
I race with a few lads who's father is Very fast and so are they and they are helped (only club racing - but they are both v.fast so he loves it (they were as fast as Huff in MGB's when all 3 were in the same series for a few years). Huff father could afford the next step to the Cupra cup and he won that easy.
So I am saying it is fine if they show real talent but not otherwise.
lazyitus said:
jellison said:
So I am saying it is fine if they show real talent but not otherwise.
We'll agree to half agree with each other then. Never done any sports I was no good at. Mind never done any sports! Don't undertsand the meaning of the word TeamSport hence race cars for fun / hobby.
jellison said:
lazyitus said:
jellison said:
So I am saying it is fine if they show real talent but not otherwise.
We'll agree to half agree with each other then. It never happened to me so I'll be
ed if it's happening to them.However, if I end up with the same bank balance as NM, then I will do my utmost to help them persue the career of their choice, one that they enjoy.
I certainly wouldn't push them towards a career in shelf stacking just because they showed ability putting books on shelves at home.
Cars run on Money not talent otherwise I would be racing instead of them.
Greg did get a podium at one of the latter races this year so possibly he has some talent but Leo, his appearance just means yet another seat filled by a no hoper like the winner of the Ginetta scholarship this year who was crap but happened to live near one of the guys involved with ginetta.
Greg did get a podium at one of the latter races this year so possibly he has some talent but Leo, his appearance just means yet another seat filled by a no hoper like the winner of the Ginetta scholarship this year who was crap but happened to live near one of the guys involved with ginetta.
This is the problem with Motor-racing, you need money and very good contact to succeed. And there are not allot of people who are lucky to have one, let alone both options. This is one of the reason I do not look at Motor-racing as a sport.
It is a privilege for the Rich. And yes, Lewis got lucky, if it was not for Mclaren, I really do not think his racing career would have made it past Karting.
It is a privilege for the Rich. And yes, Lewis got lucky, if it was not for Mclaren, I really do not think his racing career would have made it past Karting.
waynepixel said:
This is the problem with Motor-racing, you need money and very good contact to succeed. And there are not allot of people who are lucky to have one, let alone both options. This is one of the reason I do not look at Motor-racing as a sport.
It is a privilege for the Rich. And yes, Lewis got lucky, if it was not for Mclaren, I really do not think his racing career would have made it past Karting.
Yep agree with this, but club racing can be Mega as no Too much money and if in a good championship with big grid you can have some cracking fun and the front, middle and back. It is a privilege for the Rich. And yes, Lewis got lucky, if it was not for Mclaren, I really do not think his racing career would have made it past Karting.
Get to the level of the recent SPA 6 hours (classic and basically it is just FULL OF CHEATS).
jellison said:
waynepixel said:
This is the problem with Motor-racing, you need money and very good contact to succeed. And there are not allot of people who are lucky to have one, let alone both options. This is one of the reason I do not look at Motor-racing as a sport.
It is a privilege for the Rich. And yes, Lewis got lucky, if it was not for Mclaren, I really do not think his racing career would have made it past Karting.
Yep agree with this, but club racing can be Mega as no Too much money and if in a good championship with big grid you can have some cracking fun and the front, middle and back. It is a privilege for the Rich. And yes, Lewis got lucky, if it was not for Mclaren, I really do not think his racing career would have made it past Karting.
Get to the level of the recent SPA 6 hours (classic and basically it is just FULL OF CHEATS).
Formula Ford
waynepixel said:
jellison said:
waynepixel said:
This is the problem with Motor-racing, you need money and very good contact to succeed. And there are not allot of people who are lucky to have one, let alone both options. This is one of the reason I do not look at Motor-racing as a sport.
It is a privilege for the Rich. And yes, Lewis got lucky, if it was not for Mclaren, I really do not think his racing career would have made it past Karting.
Yep agree with this, but club racing can be Mega as no Too much money and if in a good championship with big grid you can have some cracking fun and the front, middle and back. It is a privilege for the Rich. And yes, Lewis got lucky, if it was not for Mclaren, I really do not think his racing career would have made it past Karting.
Get to the level of the recent SPA 6 hours (classic and basically it is just FULL OF CHEATS).
Formula Ford
jellison said:
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/champcar/news/1571...
Jesus - the junior Mansell's have done Sod all in the mnor categories.
He should get them out doing real jobs (if they had should skill and been regular top 3 racers, all well and good but far from it iN BMW and F3).
Laughable. But typical.
I rate Mansell but the shine wears thin when he pushes his no hope sons this far.
Did I read that right? they will drive chimp cars??? playing dangerous games there! they are lethalJesus - the junior Mansell's have done Sod all in the mnor categories.
He should get them out doing real jobs (if they had should skill and been regular top 3 racers, all well and good but far from it iN BMW and F3).
Laughable. But typical.
I rate Mansell but the shine wears thin when he pushes his no hope sons this far.
SuperKartRacer said:
jellison said:
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/champcar/news/1571...
Jesus - the junior Mansell's have done Sod all in the mnor categories.
He should get them out doing real jobs (if they had should skill and been regular top 3 racers, all well and good but far from it iN BMW and F3).
Laughable. But typical.
I rate Mansell but the shine wears thin when he pushes his no hope sons this far.
Did I read that right? they will drive chimp cars??? playing dangerous games there! they are lethalJesus - the junior Mansell's have done Sod all in the mnor categories.
He should get them out doing real jobs (if they had should skill and been regular top 3 racers, all well and good but far from it iN BMW and F3).
Laughable. But typical.
I rate Mansell but the shine wears thin when he pushes his no hope sons this far.
Edited by johnph on Wednesday 14th November 18:20
It's hardly a surprise that motorsport is full of spoilt talentless brats. But what's the difference between Mansell's rich sprogs playing at being racing drivers in single seaters v a load of rich fat city traders playing at being racing drivers in their Ferraris?
At the very top level I can assure you the winners do have real talent eg. Hamilton, Raikonnen, Alonso, etc. It's only at the back of the grid where you get the rich talentless ones. It's only in the more junior formulas where you can literally buy yourself race wins.
So you won't see Mansell's sons win world championships unless they actually do have the talent. Regardless of how much cash their dad throws at them.
At the very top level I can assure you the winners do have real talent eg. Hamilton, Raikonnen, Alonso, etc. It's only at the back of the grid where you get the rich talentless ones. It's only in the more junior formulas where you can literally buy yourself race wins.
So you won't see Mansell's sons win world championships unless they actually do have the talent. Regardless of how much cash their dad throws at them.
Heebeegeetee said:
Is it worth reminding you all, that throughout most of his career Nigel was told he had no talent? Even when he was at Lotus, his team boss (Peter Warr) told him he'd never win a race so long as he had a hole in his arse.
Just show chapman had more insite than Warr (heard he had a high opinion of himself!), Chapman hired NM - seem to know something about FAST Driverswaynepixel said:
It is a privilege for the Rich. And yes, Lewis got lucky, if it was not for Mclaren, I really do not think his racing career would have made it past Karting.
In fairness, i think its only DC who has made it to the top from a wealthy family background.Neither Mansell, Hill, Button or Hamilton had any proper family money behind them, but they did have a lot of talent and a lot of self belief. In fact in Mansells case, possibly more self belief (and downright belligerence, often) than talent, but he did up his game at each step up the ladder.
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