Ecclestone and Fuel Legality
Discussion
From here:
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63923
Bernie says:
"I don't think that the Formula One fans would like a championship to be won because the temperature of the fuel, which can't be measured anyway,..."
If fuel can't be measured anyway, then why is there a specific rule governing the permitted temperatures? His comment brings the credibility of the entire F1 rulebook into question.
I agree, it's a shame when anything is won off the track, but those sort of comments only serve to increase suspicion of the whole F1 show. Not that anyone could be more suspicious, I suppose, as it's so bleedin' blatant.
Or is he looking for an escape route (or would that be giving him too much credit)?
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63923
Bernie says:
"I don't think that the Formula One fans would like a championship to be won because the temperature of the fuel, which can't be measured anyway,..."
If fuel can't be measured anyway, then why is there a specific rule governing the permitted temperatures? His comment brings the credibility of the entire F1 rulebook into question.
I agree, it's a shame when anything is won off the track, but those sort of comments only serve to increase suspicion of the whole F1 show. Not that anyone could be more suspicious, I suppose, as it's so bleedin' blatant.
Or is he looking for an escape route (or would that be giving him too much credit)?
jacobyte said:
From here:
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63923
Bernie says:
"I don't think that the Formula One fans would like a championship to be won because the temperature of the fuel, which can't be measured anyway,..."
If fuel can't be measured anyway, then why is there a specific rule governing the permitted temperatures? His comment brings the credibility of the entire F1 rulebook into question.
I agree, it's a shame when anything is won off the track, but those sort of comments only serve to increase suspicion of the whole F1 show. Not that anyone could be more suspicious, I suppose, as it's so bleedin' blatant.
Or is he looking for an escape route (or would that be giving him too much credit)?
Strange, as the teams use temperature senders in both the refuelling rigs and the cars themselves to provide just that information.www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63923
Bernie says:
"I don't think that the Formula One fans would like a championship to be won because the temperature of the fuel, which can't be measured anyway,..."
If fuel can't be measured anyway, then why is there a specific rule governing the permitted temperatures? His comment brings the credibility of the entire F1 rulebook into question.
I agree, it's a shame when anything is won off the track, but those sort of comments only serve to increase suspicion of the whole F1 show. Not that anyone could be more suspicious, I suppose, as it's so bleedin' blatant.
Or is he looking for an escape route (or would that be giving him too much credit)?
I don’t know about anyone else, but I'm beginning to find the whole Ecclestone/Moseley mafia-esque methods of running this great sport irksome. They are answerable to no-one and are quite happy to twist and flex the rules to serve whatever ends they decide are relevant on the day. There’s no consistency and no ethical thread to their decisions. God help those that dare to challenge these two (Ron!) as they hold all the ace cards and will manipulate proceedings to make sure you think long and hard before challenging them again!
There’s no question that Ecclestone has done an incredible job in getting the sport to where it is, not to mention made a few billion quid in the process, but he’s become so powerful that it seems his ethics and values are now getting a bit screwed. Along with his puppet, Moseley, they seem to treat F1 like their own giant Scalectrix. Whatever they say goes, goes, regardless of public opinion, legal precedent or basic common sense. I get the feeling that they’re laughing at us mere peasants! Maybe I’m just paranoid.
As a life long F1 fan, I’m starting to gravitate towards Moto GP – and I don’t even like bikes!
There’s no question that Ecclestone has done an incredible job in getting the sport to where it is, not to mention made a few billion quid in the process, but he’s become so powerful that it seems his ethics and values are now getting a bit screwed. Along with his puppet, Moseley, they seem to treat F1 like their own giant Scalectrix. Whatever they say goes, goes, regardless of public opinion, legal precedent or basic common sense. I get the feeling that they’re laughing at us mere peasants! Maybe I’m just paranoid.
As a life long F1 fan, I’m starting to gravitate towards Moto GP – and I don’t even like bikes!
shortshift said:
There’s no question that Ecclestone has done an incredible job in getting the sport to where it is, not to mention made a few billion quid in the process, but he’s become so powerful that it seems his ethics and values are now getting a bit screwed. Along with his puppet, Moseley, they seem to treat F1 like their own giant Scalectrix.
I get the distinct feeling that the roles of the two players have become reversed in the last 3-4 years.http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/157154-0/e...
I'm with Bernie - he know more about F1 than the rest of the pits put together. A few degree of fuel is going to make sod all difference (and like he says it id not something that can be measured - i.e. how long that fuel will take to be within the strict temp limits - but not very long) - the max is a small fine (that would be in line with the crime) - not like they have found the fuel to be several Octane points higher.
Get over IT. JESUS.
jellison said:
I'm with Bernie - he know more about F1 than the rest of the pits put together. A few degree of fuel is going to make sod all difference (and like he says it id not something that can be measured - i.e. how long that fuel will take to be within the strict temp limits - but not very long) - the max is a small fine (that would be in line with the crime) - not like they have found the fuel to be several Octane points higher.
Get over IT. JESUS.
I'll tell you what, while we're at at it, what's wrong with 'losing' a couple of KGs or adding a few tiny mm onto the barge boards. Or even illegally running traction control. Or having floors which break the regulations. Not as if it'll make any difference, is it?Get over IT. JESUS.
10 Pence Short said:
jellison said:
I'm with Bernie - he know more about F1 than the rest of the pits put together. A few degree of fuel is going to make sod all difference (and like he says it id not something that can be measured - i.e. how long that fuel will take to be within the strict temp limits - but not very long) - the max is a small fine (that would be in line with the crime) - not like they have found the fuel to be several Octane points higher.
Get over IT. JESUS.
I'll tell you what, while we're at at it, what's wrong with 'losing' a couple of KGs or adding a few tiny mm onto the barge boards. Or even illegally running traction control. Or having floors which break the regulations. Not as if it'll make any difference, is it?Get over IT. JESUS.
They are all pushing the rules in F1 - the fuel temp is Nothing compared to different composition of fuels they all used in the turbo era - Nothing.
Put it this way:
If it had happened in the 5th race of the season, they would almost certainly have been punished. How severely, I don't know - that is up to the FIA to decide. But the FIA should give exactly the same penalty whether it is now or mid-season. Is it worthwhile changing the way a punishment is executed just because the timing means they don't want to hurt people's feelings? Maybe it is.
If the FIA is to retrieve any respect at all, it needs to do what's right. Whatever the punishment, it shouldn't be manipulated by whatever knock-on effects subsequently occur, even if it means a change in the results.
Ecclestone should be supporting that notion - after all, he has built it. He has truly become Max's bitch.
If it had happened in the 5th race of the season, they would almost certainly have been punished. How severely, I don't know - that is up to the FIA to decide. But the FIA should give exactly the same penalty whether it is now or mid-season. Is it worthwhile changing the way a punishment is executed just because the timing means they don't want to hurt people's feelings? Maybe it is.
If the FIA is to retrieve any respect at all, it needs to do what's right. Whatever the punishment, it shouldn't be manipulated by whatever knock-on effects subsequently occur, even if it means a change in the results.
Ecclestone should be supporting that notion - after all, he has built it. He has truly become Max's bitch.
I think it's an offence that merits deisqualification from the race. If you compete with illegal fuel then you are outside the rules. You deserve more than a fine. However when looking at whether to move the cars behind up a few positions, what needs to be considered is the size of the performance advantage gained through the illegal fuel - was it such that the cars beat cars which they would not have beaten with legal fuel? I think the answer to this is no. Therefore the cars behind should not be promoted.
It's quite a simple case.
It's quite a simple case.
cougarracing said:
the problem is that rules are rules, bmw and williams clearly broke them, so they should be punished!....im a huge hamilton fan, but do i think this should be won in court...no, but i agree with mclaren that the rules need to be clarified and a punishment set for this kind of thing
Yes but you are not seeing it from the fia's point of view there is rule breaking and rule breaking - this is very minor (not and octane or a compositional issue) just a few deg different in the storeage (in the heat of the venue this is nothing) and they know that and if any fine is imposed it will be a monetary one for the team.You only have to look at past cases of this nature to see this.
Conian - not the second coming - well not yet today
coetzeeh said:
So if BMW and Williams did break the rules, then fine them - just like Mclaren were fined for using an extra set of intermediate tyres during the Friday practise session.
This is not a balanced comparison. The tyre situation outlined above happened in practice, and in addition to the fine the stewards also took a set of tyres from them, making all things equal.The illegal fuel was used during the race. If McLaren had used too many tyres during the race, there is no question at all that they would have been DQ'd.
Am I being thick, or is it also obvious to everyone else that, in appealing this decision, McLaren's aim is to establish a precedent that renders the fuel temp rules unenforceable? - Or at least only punishable in the breach by a nominal fine?
After all, if you break the fuel temp rules and, in so doing, directly change the outcome of the WDC in the final race, and it doesn't matter to the FIA, then why bother having them at all?
After all, if you break the fuel temp rules and, in so doing, directly change the outcome of the WDC in the final race, and it doesn't matter to the FIA, then why bother having them at all?
jellison said:
10 Pence Short said:
jellison said:
I'm with Bernie - he know more about F1 than the rest of the pits put together. A few degree of fuel is going to make sod all difference (and like he says it id not something that can be measured - i.e. how long that fuel will take to be within the strict temp limits - but not very long) - the max is a small fine (that would be in line with the crime) - not like they have found the fuel to be several Octane points higher.
Get over IT. JESUS.
I'll tell you what, while we're at at it, what's wrong with 'losing' a couple of KGs or adding a few tiny mm onto the barge boards. Or even illegally running traction control. Or having floors which break the regulations. Not as if it'll make any difference, is it?Get over IT. JESUS.
They are all pushing the rules in F1 - the fuel temp is Nothing compared to different composition of fuels they all used in the turbo era - Nothing.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff