Driver Coaching: Benefit or Budget Buster?

[Racingdude009]

Would suggest a GT driver I look after he does coaching for a major German car manufacturer.

Email if this is of interest.

[Ahonen]

ph123 said:

One further word of warning re pro-driver and engineer though.
I again do suggest only using those with proven track records. Engineers can be extremely opinionated and stubborn,

I know what you mean, but lots of us are okay.

In endurance racing you're always working with different drivers, often with much different abilities, so it's important to make the car easy to drive for the 'gentleman' and still fast for the pro.

[mark69sheer]

Given that in racing unless its in karts you spend very little time actually on track then a coach for every new venue is a must. In one day you will learn all the braking points and lines that would have taken you ages to work out for yourself.
The one area you will find time is in the braking zones where you will be given the latest reference point for your car.
Trying to work that out foryourself either ends up giving away time you didn't know you could gain or a trip to the kitty litter.
I remember when I was given lessons by a particular driving coach at Donnington he told me I could brake later for the Goddards chicane than I allready was...

on one good lap I after I had been braking where he told me I decided to give my instructor a bit of a treat..
I left my braking till the very last second...and then a tiny bit more , , in fact I only braked when I saw my instructor instinctively mashing his feet into the passenger bulkhead...
Then I knew I had found the latest braking point..

and it worked.

[JP_Midget]

mark69sheer said:

Given that in racing unless its in karts you spend very little time actually on track then a coach for every new venue is a must. In one day you will learn all the braking points and lines that would have taken you ages to work out for yourself.
The one area you will find time is in the braking zones where you will be given the latest reference point for your car.
Trying to work that out foryourself either ends up giving away time you didn't know you could gain or a trip to the kitty litter.
I remember when I was given lessons by a particular driving coach at Donnington he told me I could brake later for the Goddards chicane than I allready was...

on one good lap I after I had been braking where he told me I decided to give my instructor a bit of a treat..
I left my braking till the very last second...and then a tiny bit more , , in fact I only braked when I saw my instructor instinctively mashing his feet into the passenger bulkhead...
Then I knew I had found the latest braking point..

and it worked.

Yeah, track time isn't much when all you get is 15 min qual and 15 min race. Which for me is usually 7/8 laps each. I always walk the circuits a couple of times the evening before and that has helped loads, but a test day at each circuit would be heaven.

One of the chaps in my championship did a test day at Coombe the week before our race I think, and got class pole straight after.

Unfortunately this is where time and money get the better of most of us.

[rude-boy]

JP_Midget said:

One of the chaps in my championship did a test day at Coombe the week before our race I think, and got class pole straight after.

Unfortunately this is where time and money get the better of most of us.

And we come full round to the thread which spawned this one!

[JP_Midget]

rude-boy said:

JP_Midget said:

One of the chaps in my championship did a test day at Coombe the week before our race I think, and got class pole straight after.

Unfortunately this is where time and money get the better of most of us.

And we come full round to the thread which spawned this one!

Yes! But I think what was trying to be said in the other thread was that not being able to afford test days before race weekends or loads of tuition does not prevent anyone from participating in motorsport. Granted no one would get to an advanced level without that kind of time and money investment, but that is because there is always someone else out there able to do so, and therefore progress faster than you, not because you have to to join in (although there is huge value in the right tuition I feel).

Edited by JP_Midget on Thursday 15th November 17:49

[mjracing]

Definite agreement with the cross-over in thread although it also relates to 'what excuses do you use during a racing season?' - and amongst my top 5 is "lack of track-time"...It is true as i've qualified front-row and run P2 in an underpowered car following a days testing at some circuits (Rockingham with the original chicance being a great example of knowing how hard you can drive it)...

However - with 8+ years experience in racing and longer driving like a nutter, i bloody well ought to know how to drive but the truth is that the day I spent this year with an instructor did teach me a helluva lot and I should do more. Not least because the guy that bought his car to race managed to hit a 2nd in his second round of racing and I suspect that some coaching had gone on in the background...

Top tips [imho] should be - in an ideal world - get an instructor who knows the car, knows your driving style plus has an ability to set up the car to suit both and is able to teach - or, in the absence of that nirvana, just make sure he knows the car well enough to be a front runner and can communicate how to improve your abilities because if he can't constructively translate "go faster y'bugger" into "try braking through the bend/etc" - he (or she) probably isn't worth it...

Personal belief is that if you have a choice of new tyres every round or a coaching day every other then coaching is the better bet....

(In my case, I didn't even have that but if i did then I would have....)

[SuperKartRacer]

Even better chaps, make *freinds* with the best drivers and then you get it free.

[taffyracer]

You have to be careful getting instruction from racers, just because you have pace does not mean that you can teach, it really is very easy to become an instructor, but not easy to be a good one. Simon Mason as mentioned is indeed a very good one and is highly recommended

[mark69sheer]

You know it would seem to me that plenty of track racers who have gone into cars could possibly be missing out by not karting aswell.

Guy smith the Lemans winner for bentley raced a Rotax Max just to keep his hand in' between drives.

In a typical kart meeting I get
15 mins practice
10 mins qualifying
10 minute first heat
10 minute second heat
10 minute third heat
12 minute prefinal
15 minute final

thats 82 minutes on track for a £35 entry fee

a full days testing on track is only £30 too for as many laps as you can physically endure..

[SuperKartRacer]

that's why karting is the best form of racing :-@, let's hope all the tracks don't get built on

[thunderbelmont]

I'll agree with taffyracer.

When I was instructing, my "forte" was to tame the wayward billy - the one who knew everything and generally didn't listen to anyone.

My other job would be to teach the racing line to the billys so when they went on to the next phase of their "experience" or course, the guys teaching that bit has a pupil that was receptive, and had an idea where the track actually went. Rather than trying to take Vale flat in top, and turning right!

I've worked with some really great guys, all a pleasure to know, and I must say that I learned a lot over the years. "proper paying" work took over, and I haven't done a great deal (instructing) for a couple of years.

Different instructors have different methods, some use technology to show what you're doing wrong (or right), some work on your mind - getting you to think properly about what you're doing.

I couldn't recommend any one particular instructor of those mentioned earlier.

Nobody mentioned John Lyon's High Performance Driving courses - John has a very good reputation for teaching racecraft, as well as much much more.

A also concur with people who advocate doing skid-control courses, it's OK learning to go faster, but what happens when it all goes a bit Pete Tong?

Ancient Chinese Proverb also say "Man who waits for roast duck to fly into mouth must wait very, very long time."

Also:

"He who is not satisfied with himself will grow; he who is not sure of his own correctness will learn many things."

Rob.