Massa says that "there will be more accidents"
Discussion
Massa, just after testing a F1 car without TC, says there will be more accidents next year and the throttle is like a button...
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.p...
As good as he is, and I do have the utmost respect for any F1 driver, what a sad state of affairs when they are so used to not having to worry about what they do with the throttle out of corners that they fear for their safety having to not actually use it as a throttle..
Come on old chum - deciding how far down to press the loud pedal is surely one of the basic skills of any racing driver?
Or am I being overly critical?
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.p...
As good as he is, and I do have the utmost respect for any F1 driver, what a sad state of affairs when they are so used to not having to worry about what they do with the throttle out of corners that they fear for their safety having to not actually use it as a throttle..
Come on old chum - deciding how far down to press the loud pedal is surely one of the basic skills of any racing driver?
Or am I being overly critical?
minghis said:
Massa, just after testing a F1 car without TC, says there will be more accidents next year and the throttle is like a button...
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.p...
As good as he is, and I do have the utmost respect for any F1 driver, what a sad state of affairs when they are so used to not having to worry about what they do with the throttle out of corners that they fear for their safety having to not actually use it as a throttle..
Come on old chum - deciding how far down to press the loud pedal is surely one of the basic skills of any racing driver?
Or am I being overly critical?
No, I think you have it spot on...http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.p...
As good as he is, and I do have the utmost respect for any F1 driver, what a sad state of affairs when they are so used to not having to worry about what they do with the throttle out of corners that they fear for their safety having to not actually use it as a throttle..
Come on old chum - deciding how far down to press the loud pedal is surely one of the basic skills of any racing driver?
Or am I being overly critical?
now all we need to do is get shot of half the downforce, get back to powerfull engines and proper tyres, and we might get some real racing....
Benetton did it (apparently)He may be correct if a current car has had the TC removed but keeps the rest of its throttle parameters the same then sure enough power delivery will be like a light switch. the engine programmers didn't have to worry about how the power fed in because they knew the traction control would cover any excesses. now that there is no traction control then the engineers will have to work on making the power delivery more progressive and linear for the driver. They will have to alter fueling and ecu parameters to get a workable drivable car.
In the days of old with simple carbs and throttle cables a car was made 'drivable' by the positioning of the throttle cable.
It could be linked at various points to affect the leverage the accelerator peddle had and therefore the speed and range of operation that the pedal exercised. ie small movement quick reaction or a longer foot movement giving gradual throttle operation. different drivers had different preferences.
the teams will have to just go about this in someway themselves now.
I would surmise these days that it will mean trying different potentiometers in the fly by wire throttles till the drivers find one they like.
It could be linked at various points to affect the leverage the accelerator peddle had and therefore the speed and range of operation that the pedal exercised. ie small movement quick reaction or a longer foot movement giving gradual throttle operation. different drivers had different preferences.
the teams will have to just go about this in someway themselves now.
I would surmise these days that it will mean trying different potentiometers in the fly by wire throttles till the drivers find one they like.
kevin ritson said:
Personally I've never rated Massa and that quote says all you need to know about him
Too right. I recall an incident a couple of years back where Massa had a huge lock up, and he just kept his foot on the brake pedal and created a large flatspot, aswell as getting out of shape for the corner.In the same race Michael Schumacher locked up under braking and immediately he controlled it by easing off the brake pedal.
Huge difference in class. Most modern F1 drivers are too used to traction control, and I think this may play into the hands of some of the older drivers next year...
mark69sheer said:
In the days of old with simple carbs and throttle cables a car was made 'drivable' by the positioning of the throttle cable.
It could be linked at various points to affect the leverage the accelerator peddle had and therefore the speed and range of operation that the pedal exercised. ie small movement quick reaction or a longer foot movement giving gradual throttle operation. different drivers had different preferences.
the teams will have to just go about this in someway themselves now.
I would surmise these days that it will mean trying different potentiometers in the fly by wire throttles till the drivers find one they like.
They do that now and it's quite well outlined in Wright's Ferrari F1 book.It could be linked at various points to affect the leverage the accelerator peddle had and therefore the speed and range of operation that the pedal exercised. ie small movement quick reaction or a longer foot movement giving gradual throttle operation. different drivers had different preferences.
the teams will have to just go about this in someway themselves now.
I would surmise these days that it will mean trying different potentiometers in the fly by wire throttles till the drivers find one they like.
Yep just goes to show the basic principles of driving often don't apply in F1 which is whay it's been so damn boring to watch!!
Surely they'll get round it easy enough though, can't be too difficult for the techno wizards to impliment some underhand system thats not audible or shows up on data logging.
Surely they'll get round it easy enough though, can't be too difficult for the techno wizards to impliment some underhand system thats not audible or shows up on data logging.
didn't they map throttle position to torque demand before? now i guess it's going to be a straight link to the throttles?
but as above, i've never really rated massa, every driver who is any good will want to show their skill without aids, anyone who is scared of being shown up will not be keen.
but as above, i've never really rated massa, every driver who is any good will want to show their skill without aids, anyone who is scared of being shown up will not be keen.
cptsideways said:
Yep just goes to show the basic principles of driving often don't apply in F1 which is whay it's been so damn boring to watch!!
Surely they'll get round it easy enough though, can't be too difficult for the techno wizards to impliment some underhand system thats not audible or shows up on data logging.
It'd have to be mechanical as they cant program the ECU in that way anymore. So the only way to control the power will be to brake the engine output either using the brakes or something else. That would showup in readouts if they are looked at.Surely they'll get round it easy enough though, can't be too difficult for the techno wizards to impliment some underhand system thats not audible or shows up on data logging.
I'm sure someone will try something, but I'd like to bet it'll be after the next season.
Why not a mechanical piston which pushes your foot up on the throttle pedal?
Accelerometers/wheel speed sensors detect slip/skid, and then rather than the preferable cutting of power by the ECU and indepent wheel braking, you now have a physical reduction in throttle which would show up on telemetry like the driver just lifted when he detected slip himself - which is pretty much what he would be doing anyway, only you could get it to do so quite a few fractions faster than he would of his own accord.
The perfect crime, or maybe not
Stu
Accelerometers/wheel speed sensors detect slip/skid, and then rather than the preferable cutting of power by the ECU and indepent wheel braking, you now have a physical reduction in throttle which would show up on telemetry like the driver just lifted when he detected slip himself - which is pretty much what he would be doing anyway, only you could get it to do so quite a few fractions faster than he would of his own accord.
The perfect crime, or maybe not
Stu
stuthemong said:
Why not a mechanical piston which pushes your foot up on the throttle pedal?
Accelerometers/wheel speed sensors detect slip/skid, and then rather than the preferable cutting of power by the ECU and indepent wheel braking, you now have a physical reduction in throttle which would show up on telemetry like the driver just lifted when he detected slip himself - which is pretty much what he would be doing anyway, only you could get it to do so quite a few fractions faster than he would of his own accord.
The perfect crime, or maybe not
Stu
If you want to be really subtle about it, fit an actual throttle cable. These things normally consist of a wound wire outer and a plaited rope wire inner. If the inner had a high iron content and the outer was actually a conductive wire, you'd have a large and very subtle solenoid which, when current was passed through the outer "sheath", could push the throttle cable (and hence pedal) back against the driver's foot Accelerometers/wheel speed sensors detect slip/skid, and then rather than the preferable cutting of power by the ECU and indepent wheel braking, you now have a physical reduction in throttle which would show up on telemetry like the driver just lifted when he detected slip himself - which is pretty much what he would be doing anyway, only you could get it to do so quite a few fractions faster than he would of his own accord.
The perfect crime, or maybe not
Stu
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