Renault, McLaren and the FIA
Discussion
R39S1 said:
I think, and this is pure guess work, that a deal has been done: Maclaren have been told to back off or their 2008 car will be deemed to be a silver Ferrari = minus all constructor points again, and Renualt will get off with the same original punishment that maclaren did, a warning. I hope I'm wrong.
I don't like to say I told you so this morning, but, I told you so!!!Farce, absolute total
ing farceEdited by R39S1 on Thursday 6th December 18:57
it will be interesting if there is an appeal, if i know ron then there will be but we must wait for teh transcipt tomorrow. thing is i cant see anything that could come on that transcript that would change my mind...even if they never got an advantage from the designs the fact is that renault still broke the rules, and the intention was there to gain an advantage because tehy looked at the designs!
I`m stunned. I just cant understand it !!
Renault have escaped punishment for their role in the spy scandal, being found in unauthorised possession of confidential technical information belonging to McLaren, the Council have decided not to impose any sanctions on the team.
--
McLaren in July were found guilty of being in unauthorised possession of technical information belonging to Ferrari, which led to a sporting record £50million fine, while the team were stripped of all constructors' points for 2007.
Renault have escaped punishment for their role in the spy scandal, being found in unauthorised possession of confidential technical information belonging to McLaren, the Council have decided not to impose any sanctions on the team.
--
McLaren in July were found guilty of being in unauthorised possession of technical information belonging to Ferrari, which led to a sporting record £50million fine, while the team were stripped of all constructors' points for 2007.
Don't worry, all that has to happen is that the head of the UK Karting Federation has to say what a disgusting shambles it is and Max will give an appeal. Even though there is no right to appeal.
Then Maclaren can leak all sorts of false info about Renault, and no one will say a thing and then.....
You know, it really isn't worth it.
PS Is it coz 'e's black?
Then Maclaren can leak all sorts of false info about Renault, and no one will say a thing and then.....
You know, it really isn't worth it.
PS Is it coz 'e's black?
Wh00sher said:
I`m stunned. I just cant understand it !!
Renault have escaped punishment for their role in the spy scandal, being found in unauthorised possession of confidential technical information belonging to McLaren, the Council have decided not to impose any sanctions on the team.
--
McLaren in July were found guilty of being in unauthorised possession of technical information belonging to Ferrari, which led to a sporting record £50million fine, while the team were stripped of all constructors' points for 2007.
Remember that there were two cases involving McLaren.Renault have escaped punishment for their role in the spy scandal, being found in unauthorised possession of confidential technical information belonging to McLaren, the Council have decided not to impose any sanctions on the team.
--
McLaren in July were found guilty of being in unauthorised possession of technical information belonging to Ferrari, which led to a sporting record £50million fine, while the team were stripped of all constructors' points for 2007.
At the first, where they were found to have information they should not have had but there was no evidence that they'd used it, they got off without punishment.
It was only after the second case, where (in the FIA's view) there was evidence that they'd used it, that they got punished.
It's difficult to know until we've seen the transcripts, but if Renault was found to have the data but not to have made any use of it, then it's the same as the first McLaren hearing, hence the same punishment. Isn't it?
Ba humbug....
Was only ever going to be the one outcome. I'm quite surprised that they found Renault guilty though. But not at the penalty. It was their only option. And they new it.
So the pecking order in F1 now?
Ferrari
Renault
Everyone else
.
.
.
.
McLaren
Now please, can we hear NOTHING from Max for the next 12 months, and enjoy some motor racing next year.
Hell, looks like we might even get slicks back soon.
Was only ever going to be the one outcome. I'm quite surprised that they found Renault guilty though. But not at the penalty. It was their only option. And they new it.
So the pecking order in F1 now?
Ferrari
Renault
Everyone else
.
.
.
.
McLaren
Now please, can we hear NOTHING from Max for the next 12 months, and enjoy some motor racing next year.
Hell, looks like we might even get slicks back soon.
jamieboy said:
Remember that there were two cases involving McLaren.
At the first, where they were found to have information they should not have had but there was no evidence that they'd used it, they got off without punishment.
It was only after the second case, where (in the FIA's view) there was evidence that they'd used it, that they got punished.
It's difficult to know until we've seen the transcripts, but if Renault was found to have the data but not to have made any use of it, then it's the same as the first McLaren hearing, hence the same punishment. Isn't it?
Spot on. I don't like it, but spot on. Heard on R5 that Herbie Blash made a visit to Enstone on Tuesday, and found that next years car to be 'all clear'. Hence the verdict will show that no use was made of the info, and the same non-punishment implimented.At the first, where they were found to have information they should not have had but there was no evidence that they'd used it, they got off without punishment.
It was only after the second case, where (in the FIA's view) there was evidence that they'd used it, that they got punished.
It's difficult to know until we've seen the transcripts, but if Renault was found to have the data but not to have made any use of it, then it's the same as the first McLaren hearing, hence the same punishment. Isn't it?
jamieboy said:
Remember that there were two cases involving McLaren.
At the first, where they were found to have information they should not have had but there was no evidence that they'd used it, they got off without punishment.
It was only after the second case, where (in the FIA's view) there was evidence that they'd used it, that they got punished.
It's difficult to know until we've seen the transcripts, but if Renault was found to have the data but not to have made any use of it, then it's the same as the first McLaren hearing, hence the same punishment. Isn't it?
Not quite...At the first, where they were found to have information they should not have had but there was no evidence that they'd used it, they got off without punishment.
It was only after the second case, where (in the FIA's view) there was evidence that they'd used it, that they got punished.
It's difficult to know until we've seen the transcripts, but if Renault was found to have the data but not to have made any use of it, then it's the same as the first McLaren hearing, hence the same punishment. Isn't it?
McLaren's first hearing had a unanimous vote, which meant no appeal was possible. Then Ferrari kicked up a stink, and the Ferrari official that was part fo the unanimous vote (his name escapes me) then supported the appeal, so there was a second hearing. It was only in advance of this second hearing that communications were discovered. Even then, reading the transcripts, none of that information was used. There was no evidence against McLaren, and McLaren even invited the FIA to pore over their cars to find Ferrari info, but the FIA refused.
Today's outcome is disgusting. But we already knew that was going to happen, didn't we. And we know there is bugger all that can be done to defy the FIA. And we're all going to get up at sparrow fart in March to watch the Melbourne GP, because watching F1 cars racing is more important to us than the existence of the FIA. Sad, so sad.
jacobyte said:
Not quite...
McLaren's first hearing had a unanimous vote, which meant no appeal was possible. Then Ferrari kicked up a stink, and the Ferrari official that was part fo the unanimous vote (his name escapes me)
Was the Ferrari official part of the unanimous vote? I thought (and a quick glance at the first paragraph of the first transcript seems to confirm) that he would not vote. Apologies if that's not the case, but in any event it's irrelevant to the point we're discussing.McLaren's first hearing had a unanimous vote, which meant no appeal was possible. Then Ferrari kicked up a stink, and the Ferrari official that was part fo the unanimous vote (his name escapes me)
After the first McLaren hearing, the decision was:
FIA said:
It is the unanimous view of the World Council that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes were in possession of Ferrari secrets or Ferrari information, by virtue of Mr Coughlan’s possession thereof, irrespective of certain other elements. We therefore find Vodafone McLaren Mercedes in breach of Article 151c. However, the evidence of any use of this material in a manner calculated to interfere with the Formula 1 World Championship is insufficient for us to impose any penalty.
All I'm saying is that if - that is if - Renault were in the same position, then it's not unreasonable that they got the same punishment, i.e. none.jacobyte said:
It was only in advance of this second hearing that communications were discovered. Even then, reading the transcripts, none of that information was used.
Interesting comment, I've not read the transcipts, but surely there must have been 'something' in the Alonso/DLR e-mails?jamieboy said:
All I'm saying is that if - that is if - Renault were in the same position, then it's not unreasonable that they got the same punishment, i.e. none.
That is true - however:The 'evidence' that McLaren made use of the data is ridiculously flimsy. It consists of an email conversation between drivers the content of which would not be unusual even without anyone there having Ferrari data. To go from no punishment to a $100m fine and disqualification is a massive step on the basis of just that.
We will find out more detail from the transcript, but the indication is that several Renault engineers discussed the McLaren data - how is this different?
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