Tatuus Formula Renault - Ok for Monoposto???

[CaptiV8ted]

I would welcome opinions from those who know...

I have been told that the Tatuus is no good for Mono racing as the 40mm ride height required by the series regs upsets the aero package of the car. Is a novice even gonna notice?

I ask as I've looked at the mono 97 results and have found no names with Formula Renault next to them, but there does seem to be a couple of nice examples about at the moment for sale.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Nick

[knighty]

yes, it can be done, but like you say the Tatus needs to be above 40mm, probably something like 45mm front, 50mm rear.......this is the equivalent to putting the car on tip-toes......this would mainly be done by raising the suspension, which will drastically upset the handling, and put the roll centres a mile off where they were designed to be......not to mention mess the Aero package.......if you already have the car, and are a novice, I'd say give it a go but be very careful, this is not the sort of car for a novice to be honest...... ask on the mono forum first, as its been done already.......but if you are just buying a car, I'd say buy a 2000 ish VanDiemen Formula Ford Zetec, and convert it to a wings and diffuser set-up, this has worked very well for Barry Pritchard, Jonathan Lewis and co......or failing that, buy a speads and it will be elegible for 75-F4 too

this link is interesting......convert a Vandiemen to GSXR 1000 bike power with an off-the shelf kit from the US

http://novaracecars.com/product2.htm

.

Edited by knighty on Wednesday 12th December 10:28

[JP_Midget]

Yes, I think a novice would notice handling problems.

Not in a car of this type, but I noticed a lot of things with mine though I didn't know what they were. So far all my handling worries have been tracked down to problems with the car rather than me (although it could well be my novice driving style makes them more problematic).

You may not notice these things the first or second time out, but as you build confidence and start to push the car will feel wrong and you can easily lose confidence in your driving.

[CaptiV8ted]

Thanks for your replies. I have decided against a F.Renault now, as it seems that the only place they're really right for is BARC F.Renault - but the older ones won't be eligable after '08. So, I'd end up with a car that no-one can use anywhere (effectively) and hence it's value would tumble. I think an Formula Vauxhall Lotus is ticking all the boxes now.

[Kickstart]

Formula Renaults can of course run in F4 750MC - very good championship

Having run in F4 and Mono the quickest cars seem to be the motorbike engined things although don't forget that the 2 litre cars run in different races to the motobike engined cars.

[lanan]

CaptiV8ted said:

Thanks for your replies. I have decided against a F.Renault now, I think an Formula Vauxhall Lotus is ticking all the boxes now.

Are you proposing to start single seater racing in a Vauxhall Lotus ?

[SuperKartRacer]

hi chaps

First thing there's loads of fr's running in mono so ok :-)

Second why can't he start with a lotus ? They are fast but I guess
this has some? Racing history!?

[CaptiV8ted]

lanan said:

CaptiV8ted said:

Thanks for your replies. I have decided against a F.Renault now, I think an Formula Vauxhall Lotus is ticking all the boxes now.

Are you proposing to start single seater racing in a Vauxhall Lotus ?

I want to get a car that's not too expensive and that I can grow into as my skills develop. I'm sensible enough to treat it with respect and not just floor it and hope everything works out.

[CaptiV8ted]

SuperKartRacer said:

hi chaps

First thing there's loads of fr's running in mono so ok :-)

I was very interested in these at first, but I've since found out (looking at results tables) that no-one in either F4 or Mono seems to be running these. When I asked why, the general concencus was that the 40mm ride height does not agree with For. Renault. I'm sure this could be improved by playing with the geometry and aero stuff, but last nail in the coffin is that even in BARC Renault, the older (99 and before I think...) won't be eligable after '08. I'd never be able to sell it when the time comes. Shame. They look bloody awesome!

[SuperKartRacer]

CaptiV8ted said:

SuperKartRacer said:

hi chaps

First thing there's loads of fr's running in mono so ok :-)

I was very interested in these at first, but I've since found out (looking at results tables) that no-one in either F4 or Mono seems to be running these. When I asked why, the general concencus was that the 40mm ride height does not agree with For. Renault. I'm sure this could be improved by playing with the geometry and aero stuff, but last nail in the coffin is that even in BARC Renault, the older (99 and before I think...) won't be eligable after '08. I'd never be able to sell it when the time comes. Shame. They look bloody awesome!

I'd say a good driver could still win in one tho, but yes good point on the 08 issues. I think the FV Lotus looks much better, mine is a mono champ winning car with various f3 bolted to it! I'm also running in Mono next year. Have you tried Dermot H for a FLV? out of interest have you done any racing?/karting etc

Even sitting in mine puts the shits up me LOL and they sound great :-), easy cars to work on also and spares are cheap.

[knighty]

if your honestly starting out in single seaters, I'd steer well clear of a winged car in F4 or Mono.......they are too bloody fast......go for something like a kent or zetec formula ford......or even go formula vee......learn from my mistakes, as I built a car that was too fast for my ability (blackbird engined RF93 formula renault) and I just had to sell it in the end, I was doing 53 second laps at brands and pooping myself, as even that is very fast, but as the front runners were doing 48's, this scared me even more......I should have started with something a little less hairy and worked my way up......I think you need to be more realistic with regard to a starter car.

[lanan]

knighty said:

if your honestly starting out in single seaters, I'd steer well clear of a winged car in F4 or Mono.......they are too bloody fast......go for something like a kent or zetec formula ford......or even go formula vee......learn from my mistakes, as I built a car that was too fast for my ability (blackbird engined RF93 formula renault) and I just had to sell it in the end, I was doing 53 second laps at brands and pooping myself, as even that is very fast, but as the front runners were doing 48's, this scared me even more......I should have started with something a little less hairy and worked my way up......I think you need to be more realistic with regard to a starter car.

The voice of reason.
I don't understand the reason for something to "grow into". The skill is to get the most out of whatever you are driving. To get the most out of a Formula Ford 1600 will probably take a couple of seasons atleast. Then you concentrate on racecraft and beating the others,as that is why we go racing, not to drive fast, you can do that on a track day. A FVL is still a leap from a FF1600.
I don't wish to p*ss on your bonfire, but give you some things to consider, please accpet it in this way..!

[CaptiV8ted]

lanan said:

knighty said:

if your honestly starting out in single seaters, I'd steer well clear of a winged car in F4 or Mono.......they are too bloody fast......go for something like a kent or zetec formula ford......or even go formula vee......learn from my mistakes, as I built a car that was too fast for my ability (blackbird engined RF93 formula renault) and I just had to sell it in the end, I was doing 53 second laps at brands and pooping myself, as even that is very fast, but as the front runners were doing 48's, this scared me even more......I should have started with something a little less hairy and worked my way up......I think you need to be more realistic with regard to a starter car.

The voice of reason.
I don't understand the reason for something to "grow into". The skill is to get the most out of whatever you are driving. To get the most out of a Formula Ford 1600 will probably take a couple of seasons atleast. Then you concentrate on racecraft and beating the others,as that is why we go racing, not to drive fast, you can do that on a track day. A FVL is still a leap from a FF1600.
I don't wish to p*ss on your bonfire, but give you some things to consider, please accpet it in this way..!

I fully accept what you are both saying. However, I have also been told the complete opposite by people that already race these types of cars! I dunno... At the end of the day it's opinion. What one peron believes to be true, another will say the opposite. I have asked lots of questions of lots of people. The general concencus was the FVL was a very forgiving car that a novice could learn in, leaving plenty of scope for driver improvement. Another point raised was a comparison between a FF1600 and a winged car. The example was taking a particular corner at Spa (I don't know which...) In the 1600, it would be taken at around 120mph, flat out, the driver wondering if he was going to make it or not. He did the same race meet in the 2000 winged class also, same bend - 140+ mph, this time feeling very planted, very secure. I'm very grateful for your help, please don't think I'm poo poo-ing what you're saying - I'm merely passing on what I was told.... Oh, the confusion!

To answer the other question, no, I haven't done any (serious) karting.

[CaptiV8ted]

lanan said:

knighty said:

if your honestly starting out in single seaters, I'd steer well clear of a winged car in F4 or Mono.......they are too bloody fast......go for something like a kent or zetec formula ford......or even go formula vee......learn from my mistakes, as I built a car that was too fast for my ability (blackbird engined RF93 formula renault) and I just had to sell it in the end, I was doing 53 second laps at brands and pooping myself, as even that is very fast, but as the front runners were doing 48's, this scared me even more......I should have started with something a little less hairy and worked my way up......I think you need to be more realistic with regard to a starter car.

The voice of reason.
I don't understand the reason for something to "grow into". The skill is to get the most out of whatever you are driving. To get the most out of a Formula Ford 1600 will probably take a couple of seasons atleast. Then you concentrate on racecraft and beating the others,as that is why we go racing, not to drive fast, you can do that on a track day. A FVL is still a leap from a FF1600.
I don't wish to p*ss on your bonfire, but give you some things to consider, please accpet it in this way..!

I fully accept what you are both saying. However, I have also been told the complete opposite by people that already race these types of cars! I dunno... At the end of the day it's opinion. What one peron believes to be true, another will say the opposite. I have asked lots of questions of lots of people. The general concencus was the FVL was a very forgiving car that a novice could learn in, leaving plenty of scope for driver improvement. Another point raised was a comparison between a FF1600 and a winged car. The example was taking a particular corner at Spa (I don't know which...) In the 1600, it would be taken at around 120mph, flat out, the driver wondering if he was going to make it or not. He did the same race meet in the 2000 winged class also, same bend - 140+ mph, this time feeling very planted, very secure. I'm very grateful for your help, please don't think I'm poo poo-ing what you're saying - I'm merely passing on what I was told.... Oh, the confusion!

To answer the other question, no, I haven't done any (serious) karting.

[SuperKartRacer]

hmmm, well go test a proper race kart first as a flv may be too fast, see if you can find a gearbox kart drive that then your know
for sure.


It depends on you really, have you driven any powerful road cars? take 350 bph Evo rally car for example, this is fast for some people when you drive a proper kart/race car it will be like driving a maxi... world apart and think 0-100mph in 5 ish seconds = serious damage if you get it wrong, but you control the speed and you start from the back anyhow so not an issue as long as not miles off pace and stick too lines etc.

If serious you can come and look at mine I could also get you a drive in a race kart in you fancy that

Cheers

P.S. ICC karts compare to champ cars and take it from me far cheaper and more fun than single seaters + are very hard to drive on pace etc. Think 40+ gears changes in a 45 second lap at some tracks and 100+ mph and 3g cornering.

[SuperKartRacer]

SuperKartRacer said:

hmmm, well go test a proper race kart first as a flv may be too fast, see if you can find a gearbox kart drive that then your know
for sure.


It depends on you really, have you driven any powerful road cars? take 350 bph Evo rally car for example, this is fast for some people when you drive a proper kart/race car it will be like driving a maxi... world apart and think 0-100mph in 5 ish seconds = serious damage if you get it wrong, but you control the speed and you start from the back anyhow so not an issue as long as not miles off pace and stick too lines etc.

If serious you can come and look at mine I could also get you a drive in a race kart in you fancy that

Cheers

P.S. ICC karts compare to champ cars and take it from me far cheaper and more fun than single seaters + are very hard to drive on pace etc. Think 40+ gears changes in a 45 second lap at some tracks and 100+ mph and 3g cornering.

I see you drive a TVR, as quick as that might seem they are dog slow! really. Nice cars tho.

SKR

[CaptiV8ted]

SKR,

TVR has been sold to make way for racer. Quick as a 500 Chim is, of course it can't be compared to something like we have been talking about, nor your kart. Previously, I had a 180ish HP Westfield, which was really quick up to about 100. The FVL weighs about 200kg less than my Westy but has about 30hp less. Is the performance of the FVL going to be a huge suprise to me, or respectably quicker then the Westy? I know the cornering would be a different matter....

[lanan]

Nick,
Atleast you are going about it in the right way. Ask as many questions as possible and then take it all into consideration before making a decision.
SKR is right, Karts are massively quick, and you are busy all of the time. The Guys that I have worked with that have come from Karting struggle with the lack of speed when they start circuit racing.
Going from a road car, you will be blown away with the cornering speeds, any tart can go fast in a straight line, so the speed of a car is to some extent irrelevant, it is how close to the car's limit you can get it round a corner without compromising entry or exit speeds.
If your adamant the FVL is the car for you, which I strongly afdvise against, then make sure that the planks have recently been replaced. These are the aluminium sides of the car which are the major element in chassis stiffness which the car is noted for lacking..!

[CaptiV8ted]

Cheers for that. I'm not adamant about an FVL, it seemed to be a good bet going on the advice of others. Unfortuantely, I can't just jump in an FF1600, 1800 or a slicks n wings car and see what they're like. So I can only ask around and see who says what. What I do know is that I am certain I want to do single seaters, with everyday engines that I can maintain. I'd love to try a FF1600 - I bet I would be blown away by what it can do. We'll see eh?

[leigh2]

Hi
Can anyone tell me where i would pick up one of these v6 renaults, apart from "racecarsdirect" or "race-cars.com" thanks