F1 team of the year?

[Mr_Thyroid]

I think the Ferrari was the fastest car.

However I think McLaren were the best team for two reasons:

1. For making a huge step forward in performance from the previous year
2. For keeping their heads under extraordinary pressure and turmoil.

Meanwhile Aguri deserve some kind of 'good effort' award for regularly beating Honda and for Sato's performance in Canada. His pass on Alonso was one of the highlights of the year.

[stephen300o]

flemke said:

Bitter'n'Twisted said:

Driver of the year - Kimi.
Team of the year - Ferrari.

Wasn't that what the various races were there to decide?

The McLaren was the best racing car (which makes Kimi's claim to the title even stronger), but unfortunately due to the actions of the team they didn't get (and didn't deserve to get) the credit for it by winning the constructors.
They also made bad mistakes on the track particularly towards the end of the season and plucked defeat out of the jaws of victory.

Ferrari's greatest achievements this year were persuading the FIA that:

- Raikkonen's first place in Australia should stand, despite the fact that it was achieved with an illegal car,
- that Alonso should be bumped from 1st to 6th at Hungary for what was an internal matter that was no other team's business,
- that BMW and Williams should be allowed to retain 4th, 5th and 6th classifications in Brazil, because, in this case, it was okay for the stewards to decide retroactively that their own decades-old rule was invalid, and
- that McLaren should be brutally punished for possibly having done what Toyota and Renault (and almost certainly Ferrari themselves) had previously done but not been punished for.

Ferrari were hardly the Team of the Year. Politicians of the Year - yes; they retired that particular trophy many years ago.
If "Team of the Year" should go to them who had the biggest impact on the results, then the "Team of the Year" has got to be the FIA.

Ah, the irony that this should be a reply to Bitter'n'Twisted.

[castrolcraig]

drive rof the year- button, for keeping his head down and not overly criticising a shite team and dog of a car, and for even bothering going out there every weekend.....

[flemke]

stephen300o said:

Ah, the irony that this should be a reply to Bitter'n'Twisted.

Good point.
After having seen what went on in F1 this year, when the Fs sunk to new lows (which, with their histories, was no mean feat), Bitter'n'Twisted would be putting it mildly. More like "Sick'n'Tired".

[LDNrevs]

Ian Davidson said:

Aguri

But you would say that!

Driver has to be Lewis - not because he's British but because he proved himself in one of the hardest seasons ever and beat the world champion in the same car. Just for sheer gusto, he should get it.

Ferrari should NOT get team of the year. It's well documented their lame and shitty politics. If this season had been about racing and racing only, you would probably have seen some different results.

[35secToNuvolari]

What's the criteria for the title? If it's the team who performed the best on track while also espousing good sportsmanship and team spirit then it's Toyota. Mclaren and Ferrari are out for both their parts in the 'situatuion:' BMW for racing and scoring points with an illegal floor, and too cool fuel: Renault for their 'situation:' Williams, cool fuel: Red Bull for stretching the word constructor and using the same chassis in two teams. And that leaves us with Toyota. No controversy, scored some points on the straight and narrow....wait, they signed Ralf to a three year contract, didn't they? And they extended Trulli's contract, too. Well, those errors are worse than cheating. Ok, it's Honda then. Damn, no, not them, they covered their car in an earth sticker; I've not seen anything much more daft. Rosso is out because they're the other half of RB's undoing: Aguri, same as Rosso, at least the chassis was an old one though. Now we're at Spyker, who's bosses didn't do their sums right and realized halfway through the year they couldn't afford to play the game. Wow, they're all bastards.

Edited by 35secToNuvolari on Monday 17th December 20:22

[stephen300o]

TVR moneypit said:

stephen300o said:

MrKipling43 said:

Anyone who votes for Mclaren or Ferrari in this thread is a moron.

It's got to be BMW.

And how many races did BMW win, or doesn't winning matter?

Are you trying to wind people up, or is it just the way that you are?

Can you honestly say, hand on your heart, that Ferrari are the team that impressed you the most this year? Because personally, as a long time Ferrari fan, I can't. This season, Ferrari stooped to new lows.

Actually I admitted Mclaren had the fastest car, on the previous page.
I'm still judging teams on their ability to consistantly produce a fast car every weekend.
I still enjoy F1 too much to let politicians ruin F1 for me.
At least there aren't any drug controversies(yet).

[andyps]

Team of the year - McLaren.

MrKipling43, last time I checked, no I wasn't.

Stephen300o - Has Max been checked for drugs? Being charitable, testing positive might be his best excuse.

Edited by andyps on Tuesday 18th December 00:24

[rupert the dog]

Driver has to be Kimi. A no-nonsense second half to the season, keeping well away from all the politics and other shenanigans, just getting on with the job of driving, and in my opinion, becoming a worthy WDC.

Team? Not so clear-cut. The McLaren was undoubtedly the class of the field, but they peed on their own shoes a few times (!) which I think counts them out.

Ferrari - don't think so, even though I'm a lifelong fan. Regrettably have to say that their stance in all that was going on wasn't exactly, er, professional (not really the word I'm looking for, but it'll do).

BMW had a great season, with good cars and 2 very good drivers

But I think Williams must take it for trouncing the works Toyotas, and with not the biggest budget in the world still performing well.

[Chrisgr31]

I think you have to discount both Ferrari and McLaren on the grounds that the water is far to murky. After all there are rumours that McLaren delibrately engineered the last races to ensure that Lewis didn't win the Championship. Ferrari you have to discount for their political methods.

Mind you as pointed out above that then leaves slightly shaky grounds due to some of the other allegatings through the year. But at the end of the day BMW has to be a good contender.

[flemke]

Chrisgr31 said:

After all there are rumours that McLaren delibrately engineered the last races to ensure that Lewis didn't win the Championship.

Strange, to say the least. What possible motive would they have had?

[patmahe]

Driver of the year was Kimi - he just got on with his job and steered clear of all the bullsh1t and got his just reward.

Team of the year for me was between BMW Sauber or Red bull racing. BMW started the year well but never really progressed - Red Bull started badly but made good progress and put in some decent performances they are one to watch in my opinion.

Team Principal of the year I'd give to Ron Dennis who in my opinion acted fairly, resposibly and with the level of integrity I'd expect of him and I believe he knew nothing of the cheating going on in his team. I think Ferrari's image has been tarnished by all this in true enthusiasts eyes, but they dont care about that as its rarely true enthusiasts that buy their products.

[stephen300o]

patmahe said:

Driver of the year was Kimi - he just got on with his job and steered clear of all the bullsh1t and got his just reward.

Team of the year for me was between BMW Sauber or Red bull racing. BMW started the year well but never really progressed - Red Bull started badly but made good progress and put in some decent performances they are one to watch in my opinion.

Team Principal of the year I'd give to Ron Dennis who in my opinion acted fairly, resposibly and with the level of integrity I'd expect of him and I believe he knew nothing of the cheating going on in his team. I think Ferrari's image has been tarnished by all this in true enthusiasts eyes, but they dont care about that as its rarely true enthusiasts that buy their products.

As Redbull only managed to finish seven races beween them, I can't really see how they did well.

[patmahe]

stephen300o said:

patmahe said:

Driver of the year was Kimi - he just got on with his job and steered clear of all the bullsh1t and got his just reward.

Team of the year for me was between BMW Sauber or Red bull racing. BMW started the year well but never really progressed - Red Bull started badly but made good progress and put in some decent performances they are one to watch in my opinion.

Team Principal of the year I'd give to Ron Dennis who in my opinion acted fairly, resposibly and with the level of integrity I'd expect of him and I believe he knew nothing of the cheating going on in his team. I think Ferrari's image has been tarnished by all this in true enthusiasts eyes, but they dont care about that as its rarely true enthusiasts that buy their products.

As Redbull only managed to finish seven races beween them, I can't really see how they did well.

I'd agree with you in the reliability stakes they werent good but they showed real speed and promise - like I said one to watch

[MrKipling43]

flemke said:

Chrisgr31 said:

After all there are rumours that McLaren delibrately engineered the last races to ensure that Lewis didn't win the Championship.

Strange, to say the least. What possible motive would they have had?

Remember the rumours that it was orchestrated by the FIA, the ultimatum being something along the lines of "Ron, if you make sure that neither Lewis or Fernando win the championship, we'll allow you to compete in the 2008 championship"

[stephen300o]

MrKipling43 said:

flemke said:

Chrisgr31 said:

After all there are rumours that McLaren delibrately engineered the last races to ensure that Lewis didn't win the Championship.

Strange, to say the least. What possible motive would they have had?

Remember the rumours that it was orchestrated by the FIA, the ultimatum being something along the lines of "Ron, if you make sure that neither Lewis or Fernando win the championship, we'll allow you to compete in the 2008 championship"

Leave that booze alone, think of your poor liver.

[MrKipling43]

stephen300o said:

MrKipling43 said:

flemke said:

Chrisgr31 said:

After all there are rumours that McLaren delibrately engineered the last races to ensure that Lewis didn't win the Championship.

Strange, to say the least. What possible motive would they have had?

Remember the rumours that it was orchestrated by the FIA, the ultimatum being something along the lines of "Ron, if you make sure that neither Lewis or Fernando win the championship, we'll allow you to compete in the 2008 championship"

Leave that booze alone, think of your poor liver.

It does seem a little far-fetched, even for the world of F1...

[flemke]

MrKipling43 said:

flemke said:

Chrisgr31 said:

After all there are rumours that McLaren delibrately engineered the last races to ensure that Lewis didn't win the Championship.

Strange, to say the least. What possible motive would they have had?

Remember the rumours that it was orchestrated by the FIA, the ultimatum being something along the lines of "Ron, if you make sure that neither Lewis or Fernando win the championship, we'll allow you to compete in the 2008 championship"

I'll admit that even I was surprised at the depths to which certain parties stooped this year, but I really cannot imagine that your scenario would have happened. There would have been too much danger that it would leak out (assuming that one believes that Dennis would ever have agreed to it, and I don't for one minute).
Besides, even if that had happened, the FIA have already slapped a penalty on McLaren for '08 by getting them to agree not to develop certain critical parts of their car for all of the season. That alone would suggest that the rumour of a trade-off was spurious (unless the WMSC has broken the deal already!)

[WilliBetz]

flemke said:

Besides, even if that had happened, the FIA have already slapped a penalty on McLaren for '08 by getting them to agree not to develop certain critical parts of their car for all of the season.

It might be even worse that you imply.

McLaren couldn't hand back the IP that they were given by Ferrari (you can't unlearn stuff), but in the resultant investigations there have been several disclosures concerning the IP which will have given all of their competitors a leg up. It seems that the only parties to suffer are Ferrari (who wouldn't want the IP to be released) and McLaren (who have warranted not to exploit it).

[MrKipling43]

flemke said:

I'll admit that even I was surprised at the depths to which certain parties stooped this year, but I really cannot imagine that your scenario would have happened.

Woah, hold on a tick.

I'm going to completely disassociate myself with that theory - your explanation of why it's ridiculous is the same one I would give.