Formula One Drivers aren't as good as....
Discussion
There was a really nice bloke who raced in our FF1600 championship.
He used to fly harriers in the RN display squadron, so obviously was a top cookie (or gun, - whatever!). He had brand new cars, money wasn't the problem. Eventually he got to be pretty quick. But overtaking and general racecraft was a bit of an issue. Don't get me wrong, he could qually really well, but the actual racing wasn't intuitive to him and there lies the difference folks, IMHO.
You can learn to be fast, but to race, or rally at the top level, you need to have a bit of your brain power reserved for'unexpected' situations, such as a bit of a skid or a bit of an overtake or a problem with the car. Top drivers/riders can adjust to less than perfect situations almost instantly as they have spare brain processing capacity to sort it out on the fly.
The best simile I can use is like asking a computer to work with not a lot of RAM. It runs slowly, graphics run jerkily if you ask it to multitask etc. Put a bit more RAM in and your computer will work a whole load better. If you see what I mean.
He used to fly harriers in the RN display squadron, so obviously was a top cookie (or gun, - whatever!). He had brand new cars, money wasn't the problem. Eventually he got to be pretty quick. But overtaking and general racecraft was a bit of an issue. Don't get me wrong, he could qually really well, but the actual racing wasn't intuitive to him and there lies the difference folks, IMHO.
You can learn to be fast, but to race, or rally at the top level, you need to have a bit of your brain power reserved for'unexpected' situations, such as a bit of a skid or a bit of an overtake or a problem with the car. Top drivers/riders can adjust to less than perfect situations almost instantly as they have spare brain processing capacity to sort it out on the fly.
The best simile I can use is like asking a computer to work with not a lot of RAM. It runs slowly, graphics run jerkily if you ask it to multitask etc. Put a bit more RAM in and your computer will work a whole load better. If you see what I mean.
The thing is, it just seems a lot of those high power GT cars seem to be a lot harder to drive than an F1 car, as when the F1 drivers get in them they are going 'oooo I'm scareeeeeeed'. Didn't some of the Vipers used to have 900bhp? With no traction control? I'd like to see an F1 driver drive that with ease.
Nickthebassist said:
The thing is, it just seems a lot of those high power GT cars seem to be a lot harder to drive than an F1 car, as when the F1 drivers get in them they are going 'oooo I'm scareeeeeeed'. Didn't some of the Vipers used to have 900bhp? With no traction control? I'd like to see an F1 driver drive that with ease.
That's kind of what I was trying to put across in the last post. When TN drove the reasonbly powerful dragster (3500hp isn't a lot TBH), he was off the throttle through shear terror, not lack of experience in it. He put across his reasoning being that he thought there was something wrong with the car, when infact, it behaved as it always would - he thought it would be an easy thing to drive. He wouldn't get back into it afterwards.That's not to say they're all the same and all a bunch of pussys, but for him it was certainly a wake up call as to what a powerful car behaves like. There is other types of motorsport excellence other than F1, but it never gets talked about
SuperKartRacer said:
Nickthebassist said:
....rally, touring, or GT drivers. Discuss.
The reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
Top kart driversThe reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
But most competitive drivers in F3/GP2/F1 are former karting champions, so that blows your assertion out of the water.
Having said that, I think being a top karter definitely qualifies as being a 99th-percentile driver.
Jungles said:
SuperKartRacer said:
Nickthebassist said:
....rally, touring, or GT drivers. Discuss.
The reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
Top kart driversThe reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
But most competitive drivers in F3/GP2/F1 are former karting champions, so that blows your assertion out of the water.
Having said that, I think being a top karter definitely qualifies as being a 99th-percentile driver.
Even Senna missed the world champs and it's something he really wanted to win
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karting_World_Champio...
Well, just from the Wikipedia page you linked:
Vitantonio Liuzzi - current F1
Jarno Trulli - current F1
Riccardo Patrese - retired F1
Wade Cunningham - Indy Pro Series
Giedo van der Garde - former Super Aguri and Spyker test driver
Some other karting achievements from the current F1 line-up:
Robert Kubica - 1998 International Italian Karting Champion
Fernando Alonso - 1998 Junior World Cup winner, twice Spanish Inter-A champion, Italian Inter-A champion
Kazuki Nakajima - 1999 Suzuka Formula ICA champion
Jenson Button - 1991 British Cadet Kart champion, 1997 European Super A champion, and several other British titles.
Lewis Hamilton - need I specify? Several British junior and Super A titles.
Heikki Kovalainen - 2000 Nordic/Scandinavian champion, Elf Masters winner
As for Senna... well, you can't win everything!
Vitantonio Liuzzi - current F1
Jarno Trulli - current F1
Riccardo Patrese - retired F1
Wade Cunningham - Indy Pro Series
Giedo van der Garde - former Super Aguri and Spyker test driver
Some other karting achievements from the current F1 line-up:
Robert Kubica - 1998 International Italian Karting Champion
Fernando Alonso - 1998 Junior World Cup winner, twice Spanish Inter-A champion, Italian Inter-A champion
Kazuki Nakajima - 1999 Suzuka Formula ICA champion
Jenson Button - 1991 British Cadet Kart champion, 1997 European Super A champion, and several other British titles.
Lewis Hamilton - need I specify? Several British junior and Super A titles.
Heikki Kovalainen - 2000 Nordic/Scandinavian champion, Elf Masters winner
As for Senna... well, you can't win everything!
Edited by Jungles on Sunday 23 December 11:45
Heebeegeetee said:
Nickthebassist said:
Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
I think it was his polite way of saying the car is crap.SuperKartRacer said:
Nickthebassist said:
....rally, touring, or GT drivers. Discuss.
The reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
Top kart driversThe reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
i could not include any kart driver as a top racing driver, unless they have proved themselves in a race car. I am certain that karting can help the aspiring racing driver in terms of race strategy etc etc, but a kart is not a car, and it to me it is like saying that a bike racer or a skidoo racer is a good racing driver, it is a different form of motorsport, and until the cross over has occurred, IMHO you can't include them as good race car drivers.
http://www.250superkarts.com/ click the about link
All the top UK ICC drivers I know who have tested FR/FF/F3 and other various race cars are on the pace within a few laps, then mention how slow the cars were to drive, so karts are not that much different to cars, Bikes/snowbikes are tho :-)
Normally the guys who can drive lap after lap within a tenth or two can jump in most machines with 4 wheels and get on with it.
All the top UK ICC drivers I know who have tested FR/FF/F3 and other various race cars are on the pace within a few laps, then mention how slow the cars were to drive, so karts are not that much different to cars, Bikes/snowbikes are tho :-)
Normally the guys who can drive lap after lap within a tenth or two can jump in most machines with 4 wheels and get on with it.
Baby Scuff said:
Surely they are completly different?
remember when Mansell took up touring cars? he was usless!
F1 - outright speed, having the balls to corner at 150 mph etc, even the slightest bump can throw a car off.
Touring cars - almost a contact sport, nose to tail with other cars
Rallying - usually have a top speed of under 100mph, but have to control a car on changing surface, off the ground etc
When Mansell raced the Mondeo at Donington, his progress was hindered by a faulty fuel pump, and when the problem was overcome by switching to the secondary pump, he absolutely flew, until the unfortunate "Tiff Needell" problem. You may not be aware, that he had qualified a TVR Tuscan on pole for a later race that day, but because he ended up in hospital, he didn't have the oportunity to prove himself against some very, very quick, seasoned TVR drivers! ...... I don't think you could describe him as "useles"!!!remember when Mansell took up touring cars? he was usless!
F1 - outright speed, having the balls to corner at 150 mph etc, even the slightest bump can throw a car off.
Touring cars - almost a contact sport, nose to tail with other cars
Rallying - usually have a top speed of under 100mph, but have to control a car on changing surface, off the ground etc
Baby Scuff said:
Surely they are completly different?
remember when Mansell took up touring cars? he was usless!
F1 - outright speed, having the balls to corner at 150 mph etc, even the slightest bump can throw a car off.
Touring cars - almost a contact sport, nose to tail with other cars
Rallying - usually have a top speed of under 100mph, but have to control a car on changing surface, off the ground etc
When Mansell raced the Mondeo at Donington, his progress was hindered by a faulty fuel pump, and when the problem was overcome by switching to the secondary pump, he absolutely flew, until the unfortunate "Tiff Needell" problem. You may not be aware, that he had qualified a TVR Tuscan on pole for a later race that day, but because he ended up in hospital, he didn't have the oportunity to prove himself against some very, very quick, seasoned TVR drivers! ...... I don't think you could describe him as "useles"!!!remember when Mansell took up touring cars? he was usless!
F1 - outright speed, having the balls to corner at 150 mph etc, even the slightest bump can throw a car off.
Touring cars - almost a contact sport, nose to tail with other cars
Rallying - usually have a top speed of under 100mph, but have to control a car on changing surface, off the ground etc
silverdreamracer said:
Baby Scuff said:
Surely they are completly different?
remember when Mansell took up touring cars? he was usless!
F1 - outright speed, having the balls to corner at 150 mph etc, even the slightest bump can throw a car off.
Touring cars - almost a contact sport, nose to tail with other cars
Rallying - usually have a top speed of under 100mph, but have to control a car on changing surface, off the ground etc
When Mansell raced the Mondeo at Donington, his progress was hindered by a faulty fuel pump, and when the problem was overcome by switching to the secondary pump, he absolutely flew, until the unfortunate "Tiff Needell" problem. You may not be aware, that he had qualified a TVR Tuscan on pole for a later race that day, but because he ended up in hospital, he didn't have the oportunity to prove himself against some very, very quick, seasoned TVR drivers! ...... I don't think you could describe him as "useles"!!!remember when Mansell took up touring cars? he was usless!
F1 - outright speed, having the balls to corner at 150 mph etc, even the slightest bump can throw a car off.
Touring cars - almost a contact sport, nose to tail with other cars
Rallying - usually have a top speed of under 100mph, but have to control a car on changing surface, off the ground etc
F1 in my opinion is totally boring,watch the maclaren/ferrari dissappear into the distance and fall asleep for an hour,rallying,getting the same way,apart from Mk 2 escorts and specials,which they are trying to ban, touring cars,is what its all about,flat out,anyone in with a chance of winning,and balls out acyion, motorsport at its best.
has no one seen the article in autosport recently where loeb and kovalainen test each others cars heiki was within 1 tenth of a second of loeb over a 2 minute stage in the c4 and loeb was a second down on heiki in the renault f1 car just proves the level of skill both drivers posess whatever the discipline race of champions a perfect example 
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