Formula One Drivers aren't as good as....
Discussion
hawk 427 said:
has no one seen the article in autosport recently where loeb and kovalainen test each others cars heiki was within 1 tenth of a second of loeb over a 2 minute stage in the c4 and loeb was a second down on heiki in the renault f1 car just proves the level of skill both drivers posess whatever the discipline race of champions a perfect example 
I remember a Martin Brundle article about the time he did the RAC.When testing, on a stages he got to know, he got to within a second a mile or so of the top drivers.
But come the event, when he had to drive stages he didn't know, in various weather conditions, on ice and in low sunlight, suddenly the rally boys were 15 secs a mile quicker than Brundle. Then Brundle crashed.
Derek Bell (iirc) had a similar experience when he tried his hand at rallying.Generally the way I see it is that being quick on track is about whittling away at the last hundreths through lots of laps, practise and car setup, trying to get everything absolutely perfect. In rallying that isn't an option, so its about getting as many of the tenths as possible, consistently in varying conditions when every corner is different, without stacking the car. While its true that if you can drive you can drive, there are very few top circuit racers who can deal with changing conditions and surfaces the way good rally drivers do.
While I have no shortage of respect for top drivers in any field, I prefer rallying as its much more applicable to real-world conditions (especially where I live!), and thrown into any given car on any given road my money would be on the rally driver every time.
Depends on the individual driver and their natural ability and experience.
Remember, in F1 each driver sets a car up differently to their team-mate.
An example could be, Hamilton prefers a tail-end happy car, but Alonso prefers a car that works on under-steer. (view any of his Renault performances)
This years McLaren suited Lewis' style, but not Fernando's. You could've put Lewis and Fernando into a Spyker, for example and it might of suited Alonso's driving style better and he'd be dominant over Lewis.
...Let alone swapping different formula.
Truth is, a great driver is a great driver. Doesn't matter if they are on dirt or track, they are still great in their class...
Remember, in F1 each driver sets a car up differently to their team-mate.
An example could be, Hamilton prefers a tail-end happy car, but Alonso prefers a car that works on under-steer. (view any of his Renault performances)
This years McLaren suited Lewis' style, but not Fernando's. You could've put Lewis and Fernando into a Spyker, for example and it might of suited Alonso's driving style better and he'd be dominant over Lewis.
...Let alone swapping different formula.
Truth is, a great driver is a great driver. Doesn't matter if they are on dirt or track, they are still great in their class...
Interesting thread and I agree with the comments about things becoming very specialised at the top (F1, WRC) so that drivers tend to hone their skills around the specific demands. That said, given a bit of practice I'd expect most F1 drivers to be excellent at driving most other track cars if not necessarily rally cars. Watching any top-level motorsport first-hand makes you aware that the really top guys have awesome skills. I saw my first GP at Spa in 1991 and was blown away by the speed through Pouhon, truly awe inspiring. An interesting side-note; I was looking forward to seeing Senna in qualifying as I was a huge fan. The others had looked awesome, right on the edge but when Senna came round he looked really slow. I was very disappointed until someone pointed out that he'd just put it on pole. A lesson learned - smooth is fast and ragged is slow!
Nickthebassist said:
The reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
The reason this argument is complete arse (like most of your others Nick), is because you dont get to Formula 1 without being very very good in all sorts of cars that DONT have the driver aids, or the down force, or the technical back-up. Often on comparatively second rate tracks/surfaces with half the back up and technical support.Also, have you checked recenlty on the technology in a DTM car? Or an LM car? Or are you just trying to be contraversial again?
I personally do however put WRC drivers on par with F1 guys for skill.
308mate said:
Nickthebassist said:
The reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
The reason this argument is complete arse (like most of your others Nick), is because you dont get to Formula 1 without being very very good in all sorts of cars that DONT have the driver aids, or the down force, or the technical back-up. Often on comparatively second rate tracks/surfaces with half the back up and technical support.Also, have you checked recenlty on the technology in a DTM car? Or an LM car? Or are you just trying to be contraversial again?
I personally do however put WRC drivers on par with F1 guys for skill.
t. Nickthebassist said:
308mate said:
Nickthebassist said:
The reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
The reason this argument is complete arse (like most of your others Nick), is because you dont get to Formula 1 without being very very good in all sorts of cars that DONT have the driver aids, or the down force, or the technical back-up. Often on comparatively second rate tracks/surfaces with half the back up and technical support.Also, have you checked recenlty on the technology in a DTM car? Or an LM car? Or are you just trying to be contraversial again?
I personally do however put WRC drivers on par with F1 guys for skill.
t. Nickthebassist said:
308mate said:
Nickthebassist said:
The reason for this is that I personally believe F1 drivers have too many driver aids, such as launch control etc. Another thing that sparked this off was when Martin Brundle said the TVR T440R was too raw for him. Bloody woofter.
The reason this argument is complete arse (like most of your others Nick), is because you dont get to Formula 1 without being very very good in all sorts of cars that DONT have the driver aids, or the down force, or the technical back-up. Often on comparatively second rate tracks/surfaces with half the back up and technical support.Also, have you checked recenlty on the technology in a DTM car? Or an LM car? Or are you just trying to be contraversial again?
I personally do however put WRC drivers on par with F1 guys for skill.
t. 
I am sure 308mate will now consider all his future comments. 
Stop bitching and moaning and look up the race of champions results etc. for the last 10 odd years, I'm pretty sure this is the only place where drivers from different areas are stuck in the same cars and race against each other.
Saying F1 drivers aren't as good as anyone else is just total cock.
Saying F1 drivers aren't as good as anyone else is just total cock.
AngryS3Owner said:
Stop bitching and moaning and look up the race of champions results etc. for the last 10 odd years, I'm pretty sure this is the only place where drivers from different areas are stuck in the same cars and race against each other.
Back in the 80's Donington used to runa rallysprint betwen rally and F1 drivers, and IIRC the rally drivers would do better. John Watson was brilliant at auto testing though.I think rally drivers are more versatile, they have to be quick on tarmac and gravel. And snow and ice of course, which F1 drivers would never race on, obviously.
I think rallying is a more complex sport as well, and more mentally taxing than circuit racing. I think i love that relationship thing between driver and co-driver, and the setting up of the notes etc.
I'm much more of a fan of F1 than rallying, but i just think the rally driver has to be the better at muti-tasking than any other motorsport participant, so i think i respect them more. They probably have to take more risks, too.
They are just different? rallycross? A little closer to rallying than F1 I think you'll find. The trouble is they will always struggle to find something between the two. How about rally drivers in an F1 car. How close are they to F1 driver times? It always seem to be F1 drivers trying out rallying, not the other way round.
Blue Meanie said:
They are just different? rallycross? A little closer to rallying than F1 I think you'll find. The trouble is they will always struggle to find something between the two. How about rally drivers in an F1 car. How close are they to F1 driver times? It always seem to be F1 drivers trying out rallying, not the other way round.
Rallycross races are too short though, and its on a circuit so you always know exactly whats coming up. I think the one issue with F1 cars is the micro short braking distances, i reckon once thats mastered a rally driver would be competitive. But when an F1 driver goes rallying, there's just too much to learn, and so they don't do as good as you think they might.
Heebeegeetee said:
Blue Meanie said:
They are just different? rallycross? A little closer to rallying than F1 I think you'll find. The trouble is they will always struggle to find something between the two. How about rally drivers in an F1 car. How close are they to F1 driver times? It always seem to be F1 drivers trying out rallying, not the other way round.
Rallycross races are too short though, and its on a circuit so you always know exactly whats coming up. I think the one issue with F1 cars is the micro short braking distances, i reckon once thats mastered a rally driver would be competitive. But when an F1 driver goes rallying, there's just too much to learn, and so they don't do as good as you think they might.
The biggest problem with F1 drivers going into rallying is that the driving surface would be completely foreign to most F1 drivers. Rally drivers have it easier when trying circuit racing or F1, because they often compete on tarmac; but no F1 driver - especially ones who have been in F1 for a long time - would have substantial experience competing on gravel.
Having said that, I think in terms of just driving, a rally driver would probably adjust much quicker to different vehicles and surfaces than an F1 driver.
Heebeegeetee said:
I think rallying is a more complex sport as well, and more mentally taxing than circuit racing. I think i love that relationship thing between driver and co-driver, and the setting up of the notes etc.
I'm much more of a fan of F1 than rallying, but i just think the rally driver has to be the better at muti-tasking than any other motorsport participant, so i think i respect them more. They probably have to take more risks, too.
I think it would be unjust to say one is more "mentally taxing" than the other. They're just different.I'm much more of a fan of F1 than rallying, but i just think the rally driver has to be the better at muti-tasking than any other motorsport participant, so i think i respect them more. They probably have to take more risks, too.
A rally driver must be able to listen and comprehend his/her navigator's pace notes. But apart from that, there aren't too many other distractions apart from unforeseen obstacles like boulders, fallen branches, silly spectators, etc. The driving itself should be instinctive if the driver is experienced enough.
An F1 driver or any circuit racer must have keep alert to hazard both ahead (corners, debris, flags, etc.) and behind (pursuing opponents). They must be able to pick their driving lines and plan head for the next sequence of corners so as to minimise any openings a following competitor can exploit. This is a very difficult task in high-speed open wheel racers because of limited visibility and the rate at which information is fed to the driver.
An observation: here we talk about F1 drivers, but compare them to rally drivers in general. Shouldn't the comparison be between F1 and WRC drivers, since then we're comparing the top tier for each sport? (Throw in WTCC and FIA GT or Le Mans drivers as well.)
Edited by Jungles on Monday 31st December 08:15
One discipline that's been ignored, which TBH, I hadn't thought about - Land Speed Record attempts.
Onboard video of Andy Green's Thrust SSC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHnNxMJLfvA&fea...
Consider the amount of effort involved in keeping it sunny side up, and having to provide a rolling commentary, it backs up the fact that fighter pilots really are a special breed.
EFA - 763.035mph
Onboard video of Andy Green's Thrust SSC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHnNxMJLfvA&fea...
Consider the amount of effort involved in keeping it sunny side up, and having to provide a rolling commentary, it backs up the fact that fighter pilots really are a special breed.
EFA - 763.035mph
Edited by Top Fuel Digger on Tuesday 1st January 13:03
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