Thanks FIA, Prodrive F1 Team a Dead Duck
Discussion
We have the FIA spouting on about cutting costs in F1 to help the smaller teams, yet the team they preferred for the 12th grid slot can't afford to enter. At all. Fecking typical.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/158561-0/prodrive_f1_dream_'a_dead_duck'.html
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/158561-0/prodrive_f1_dream_'a_dead_duck'.html
It was never destined to enter a team because Williams would never have allowed a non-constructor team to come in.
That's been very well documented in the press.
How Prodrive thought that they could get around it is beyond me.
I am not bothered by it either. Adding another 2 cars is not going to make the races any more interesting.
That's been very well documented in the press.
How Prodrive thought that they could get around it is beyond me.
I am not bothered by it either. Adding another 2 cars is not going to make the races any more interesting.
I'm sorry but you can not attack the FIA over this one, though any chance to make a side swipe at Mad Max would always keep me happy.
I think DR is a great man and has done a lot in motorsport, but F1 has never been his game. Look what happened when he got involved with BAR?
He wanted to join the 'FIA F1 World Constructors Championship' and me thinks he forgot to read the title of that championship. The fourth word is a big give away!!!
Well done Frank for standing your ground. F1 teams should be forced to design/build their own chassis, and thankfully it seems that two other teams currently on the grid now have only 2 years to start designing/building their own or they are being kicked out.
BTW, is Mad Max going to announce his retirement with immediate effect during the Autosport Show weekend?
I think DR is a great man and has done a lot in motorsport, but F1 has never been his game. Look what happened when he got involved with BAR?
He wanted to join the 'FIA F1 World Constructors Championship' and me thinks he forgot to read the title of that championship. The fourth word is a big give away!!!
Well done Frank for standing your ground. F1 teams should be forced to design/build their own chassis, and thankfully it seems that two other teams currently on the grid now have only 2 years to start designing/building their own or they are being kicked out.
BTW, is Mad Max going to announce his retirement with immediate effect during the Autosport Show weekend?
motormania said:
Well done Frank for standing your ground. F1 teams should be forced to design/build their own chassis, and thankfully it seems that two other teams currently on the grid now have only 2 years to start designing/building their own or they are being kicked out.
Although I do support Williams' spirit, I disagree with the detail. It wasn't right to block Prodrive's entry when there are already teams using other teams' car designs (STR with Renault's old car, and Super Aguri with Honda's). If ALL the teams were using their own original cars, then fair enough, but that is not the case. Prodrive could have had an amnesty for a couple of years and borrowed an older design from another team like STR and SA are doing, before they are forced to compete with their own design.Edited by Jungles on Friday 11th January 01:34
It was Max who pushed the customer team entry for Prodrive, it was always the intention of David Richards to go that route, he was open about that at the bidding stage and the FIA chose his bid over other teams wishing to enter knowing that was the situation.
The fact that the FIA had no control over the details of the concorde agreement seemed to not bother Max, he gambled on putting presure on the teams to change the concorde agreement to allow non constructor entries. Yet again he has got it badly wrong and F1 looks like a farce again. There could have been another constructor on the grid in 2008 had the FIA chosen a diferent bidder, it's not David Richards fault we dont have that.
The fact that the FIA had no control over the details of the concorde agreement seemed to not bother Max, he gambled on putting presure on the teams to change the concorde agreement to allow non constructor entries. Yet again he has got it badly wrong and F1 looks like a farce again. There could have been another constructor on the grid in 2008 had the FIA chosen a diferent bidder, it's not David Richards fault we dont have that.
motormania said:
I think DR is a great man and has done a lot in motorsport, but F1 has never been his game. Look what happened when he got involved with BAR?
What happened as from my eyes when he left the team the team went down hill2004 they were second in the WCC under dave richards
Nick fry took over and the team went down to 6th only scoring 38 points compared to the 119 of the 2004 season..
We need people like dave richard in F1
motormania said:
Well done Frank for standing your ground. F1 teams should be forced to design/build their own chassis, and thankfully it seems that two other teams currently on the grid now have only 2 years to start designing/building their own or they are being kicked out.
Williams entered the sport as a customer team. As has been said, Prodrive were open from the start that they would be a customer team. The FIA chose Prodrive as the preferred entrant knowing they'd be a customer team.
The FIA failed to get the Concorde agreement ratified to allow it, and therefore it's their f*ck up, rather than Prodrive's. I wonder how much money Prodrive and McLarenspent on their potential hook up?
This smacks of idiocy when the FIA are constantly talking about reducing costs in F1 to allow the smaller teams to compete. In reality the constantly changing rules and the nature of the current Concorde agreement are keeping the costs stupidly high.
The FIA failed to get the Concorde agreement ratified to allow it, and therefore it's their f*ck up, rather than Prodrive's. I wonder how much money Prodrive and McLaren
This smacks of idiocy when the FIA are constantly talking about reducing costs in F1 to allow the smaller teams to compete. In reality the constantly changing rules and the nature of the current Concorde agreement are keeping the costs stupidly high.
JeremyK said:
motormania said:
Well done Frank for standing your ground. F1 teams should be forced to design/build their own chassis, and thankfully it seems that two other teams currently on the grid now have only 2 years to start designing/building their own or they are being kicked out.
Frank Williams did, back in the days when you could buy an old F1 car and enter it. That was a long time ago, but I'm fairly certain the current Williams team have always been a constructor, because you had to be.Williams entered the sport as a customer team.
Heebeegeetee said:
JeremyK said:
motormania said:
Well done Frank for standing your ground. F1 teams should be forced to design/build their own chassis, and thankfully it seems that two other teams currently on the grid now have only 2 years to start designing/building their own or they are being kicked out.
Frank Williams did, back in the days when you could buy an old F1 car and enter it. That was a long time ago, but I'm fairly certain the current Williams team have always been a constructor, because you had to be.Williams entered the sport as a customer team.
Whilst I appreciate Frank's reasons, the fact is that F1 is ridiculously expensive, to the point that no-one can enter any more without the support of either another team or a manufacturer. It's a parallel of the credit crunch and once the exodus starts, that's it, unless something is done.
DR and Prodrive have been honest throughout the process, which is why I find the whole situation as pathetic as moans about ECUs and spying. The sport is disappearing up its backside, folks - put your toys back in the pram and put your energies into something useful like working out how to overtake.
Its up to the FIA. They keep changing the rules, including engine regs, to make the sport supposedly cheaper. Whereas everyone knows, the rich teams can cope with rule changes best.
It really is up to the FIA to decide whether they actually do want a more affordable category or not, but with Max in charge, i shan't be holding my breath waiting for anything worthwhile to happen.
It really is up to the FIA to decide whether they actually do want a more affordable category or not, but with Max in charge, i shan't be holding my breath waiting for anything worthwhile to happen.
kevin ritson said:
DR and Prodrive have been honest throughout the process, which is why I find the whole situation as pathetic as moans about ECUs and spying. The sport is disappearing up its backside, folks - put your toys back in the pram and put your energies into something useful like working out how to overtake.
The thing is being honest with FIA does not get you anywhere... lie stab people in the back and he may be racing and may have been paid for it too. motormania said:
I think DR is a great man and has done a lot in motorsport, but F1 has never been his game. Look what happened when he got involved with BAR?
Yes, what happened was they had their most successful period under DR's leadership and not surprisingly have gone ever backwards since Honda took over and he left.....
Edited by aeropilot on Friday 11th January 13:56
Although I too would love another bit of mud to be flung at Max in the hope that it will stick, in truth this doesn't really have much to do with the FIA does it? Its the Concorde Agreement between Bernie (FOM) and the teams which is the stumbing block that's tripped up Prodrive because Williams etc disagreed with the draft proposal that included customer cars, and basically blew away any power the FIA might have had over proceedings by declaring that they would not accept any judgement from the FIA / World Council on the subject as it wasn't a sporting matter so was outside their juristiction.
Yep I can see your point I guess, but I don't think the FIA are solely to blame. Equally you have to say that Dave Richards jumped the gun somewhat signing up to something that relied on another agreement being passed, and Im sure there were reassurances about the formality of the agreement being signed from Bernie as well (who's the main protagonist of the whole agreement), so he's just as guilty too.
I guess it boils down to the reality that Prodrive saw a rare opportunity to get into F1 and took a punt and they, the FIA and Bernie all assumed that the Concorde Agreement would be all sorted by the time they entered, but it all backfired unfortunately.
I guess it boils down to the reality that Prodrive saw a rare opportunity to get into F1 and took a punt and they, the FIA and Bernie all assumed that the Concorde Agreement would be all sorted by the time they entered, but it all backfired unfortunately.
Have any of you any idea what is needed to run an F1 team....personnel, technology, equipment etc? Prodrive do not have the money, nor backing to run an F1 team and McLaren are not in a position to fund Prodrive as a B-Team. Mercedes don't want Prodrive in F1 as a cash cow and it was always a bluff by Mr PR Dave Richards. Nice idea very poor execution.
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