Starting in Motorsport

[pfptr]

Hi,

Was hoping for some opinion/assistance. I am interested in getting into motorsport and was initially attracted to the Caterham Academy. Had a look around Autosport today and spoke to Ginetta and Westfield as well. All seem to offer reasonably similar packages. Does anyone have any views/thoughts on what might be the best series to go for? Obviously I would like to keep costs down, and Caterham would mean waiting a year, but I am not that familiar with the Ginetta and Westfield series. Both cars looked good on the stands, but what are the products like in reality?

Many thanks for any assistance.

John

[johnph]

According to some people you shouldn't race Caterhams because the fuel tanks are right at the very back.

[intrepid44]

Whats your budget?

[1]

The reality is that they are all just kit cars and require more maintenance than a mass produced cars, especially when racing them. In terms of reliability I would imagine Caterham would have the edge due to the fact that they have sold and raced more cars than the other 2 put together.

However in terms of racing I think the Ginettas have the edge. Well organised with a good set of well controlled regs on an excellent package (F3 British GT) with suburb racing which attracts a good calibre of driver.

All depends on what you are looking for, what budget you have, and if you will be running yourself or getting a team to run you.

[lord summerisle]

johnph said:

According to some people you shouldn't race Caterhams because the fuel tanks are right at the very back.

TBH they have bag tanks now so less of an issue, and fuel tank fires are (thankfully) very rare, but its a risk with any - i've seen 2 fires so far, both were tin tops hatch backs - in both instances a heavy rear impact.
Were as at least your not caught inside a car with the fire, its exposed behind you.

As regards racing - consider starting off in the Caterham Roadsports or Graduates race series - the grades have the classic class - which is the origonal Academy (well Scolorship cars as the series was origonally called) these are 100 or so bhp 1600VX engines with a live rear axle - you can pick a car up for around £7-8k ready to race, and at the end of the season if you cant carry on or want to move to the supers class then your likely to get that money back (classics have been 7-8k for the last couple of years i've been looking)

Plus theres lots of other series, and they all try to help new racers enjoy themselves.

dont get me wrong - the academy is an excellent introduction to racing, by all accounts its a great thing, with good camardery of 'all beginners' together through the series along with Caterham's handholding and sorting out race entries, but it is very expensive to begin with, but at the end you can sell the car for £15-17,000 or head straight into another caterham race series - run either by caterham themselves in the Roadsports series, or in the Graduates.

There was a thread not so long ago in this forum about whats stopping you racing.

If you do sign up for the Academy 09 then go along to the academy series races this year and talk to them. And consider Marshaling (had to get that plug in there) for a season, see things from the bests vantage points on the track - right by the Armco

[SimonY]

I did the Academy in 2004, and my brother in 2006, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone. Not the cheapest way into racing but starting with 55 other novices is a bit special and the format does make life easy. Broad range of ages and abilities, great racing all through the field, good factory support from Caterham. Car can be slightly upgraded over subsequent seasons to the Roadsport B and Roadsport A series which gives a nice progression. Grids are always full and the racing is always tight. We're still both racing Caterhams, I'll be in the Superlights in 2008 and my brother in the Roadsport A. There's no reason why you couldn't start in Roadsport B, A or one of the Graduates series this year.

Of the other two I've watched the Ginettas a few times, the racing is about as good as the Roadsports and the level of driving at the front seems to be of a very high standard. Think it is fair to say that the level is quite mixed from the front to the back, probably a slightly broader range of abilities than the Caterhams. Being on F3/GT is OK but you are the lowest priority. Testing the day before the race is very expensive and limited in time, and I guess you can expect practice sessions and races not to be at the perfect times.

johnph said:

According to some people you shouldn't race Caterhams because the fuel tanks are right at the very back.

So are Westfields and Ginettas, so we're all sitting in front of a bomb!

Edited by SimonY on Sunday 13th January 11:31

Edited by SimonY on Sunday 13th January 11:33

[no.53]

If you are novice why not go for the golf gti cup with club 750, aimed at novices, enforced high driving standards, full grids, good atmosphere, equal playing field with quality scrutineering - arrive and drive for under £10000.

[BenElliottRacing]

I came 2nd in the Ginetta g20 championship 2007.

Ran the car myself so can give a good view on budget for you.

Entry fees last year were £600 + vat per meeting so £5400 + Vat total

The cars race on control fuel. You'll need 60 litres a meeting which cost £120 - £1200 total

3 sets of tyres for the season - £1200 total

1 gearbox rebuild - £400 - 3rd gear syncro broke.

1 engine stripdown + rebuild (scruitineering inspection) £500

3 sets of brake pads £250

Crash Damage - £500 (rear hub, wishbone, toe link, wheel.)

recon on £12 - £15k to run yourself in 08. double that to be run by a team.

[Heebeegeetee]

Has anybody on here gone car racing without karting first?

[SimonY]

Only local type arrive and drive.

Roadsports works out at £8-10k (assuming no major damage). Again double that to be run by a team.

[thunderbelmont]

Heebeegeetee said:

Has anybody on here gone car racing without karting first?

yes.

What's your question?

[Phoenix]

Heebeegeetee said:

Has anybody on here gone car racing without karting first?

Yes, me too.

[intrepid44]

thunderbelmont said:

Heebeegeetee said:

Has anybody on here gone car racing without karting first?

yes.

What's your question?

I think he's saying it's a lot cheaper to start in karts, and you can learn your race craft, learn the idea of setting up a vehicle, and a whole lot more for a fraction of the price. And then by the time the persons switched to cars (if he still wants to that is), will be in a much better position than before, and hopefully make none of the silly, expensive mistakes that a complete novice may make.

[Heebeegeetee]

Yeah i was curious as to what its like starting with cars, you know, having to learn set up, race craft etc in heavier, faster vehicles. I would imagine the disadvantage you'd be in as a beginner would be more marked without some karting first.

[thunderbelmont]

From my experience, the two disciplines are so very different that other than basic racecraft, there isn't much you can carry over from karting.

The dynamics of a single seater (or a Lo/Cater/field) are so far different to a kart that if you try to drive one like a kart, you'll be off in no time! Karts have much more mechanical grip, and you can get away with sooo much more - like braking hard right up to the apex, while controlling a little oversteer, then straight back on the power off the apex. Do that with a rwd race car and you're in trouble!

I guess a little "kart control" helps (oversteer on the limit) for seat of the pants racing.

So, if you intend going car racing, don't corrupt your brain with karting, or you'll wasting a year, then having to un-learn a lot of it.

If anything, spend the money you were going to "waste" on karting on a course with someone like Silverstone, Thruxton, or Rockingham.

Now, if you go karting, and enjoy it, you may well decided that you'd rather do that than car racing.

Both genre's are great fun, both will eat your wallet alive.

"The world's your lobster" as they say.

If you want to race something Caterham-esque without the serious cash - have a look at the 750MC's Locost series. A good starting point indeed.

Me, I'm just power crazed. I'll stick with me' V8's! (you could do a season in the V8 Trophy for less than a Caterham!!! - and they're likely to be National-B this year - last season £3K per round would have you a seat, and there were 5 meetings (10 races). Similar plan this year, but it's nearly all road courses, one air-show, and a season finale drag race!

Rob.

[dylanp]

pfptr said:

Hi,

Was hoping for some opinion/assistance. I am interested in getting into motorsport and was initially attracted to the Caterham Academy. Had a look around Autosport today and spoke to Ginetta and Westfield as well. All seem to offer reasonably similar packages. Does anyone have any views/thoughts on what might be the best series to go for? Obviously I would like to keep costs down, and Caterham would mean waiting a year, but I am not that familiar with the Ginetta and Westfield series. Both cars looked good on the stands, but what are the products like in reality?

Many thanks for any assistance.

John

Hi John,

You could always race in a multi-make series.. For example I race in Castle Combe Special GTs class - I race a Marlin 5Exi against Ferrari 360s, Porsche 911, BMW M3s, Toyota MR2turbos, RX7s, etc..

I reckon racing a Marlin 5Exi (with full factory support on arrive and drive basis) would cost you under £15k per year (this includes paying for the car)..

Let me know if interested - I can put you in touch with Marlin guys..
Dylan