RE: Future Of Belgian GP In Doubt
Discussion
Regarding the circuit days track event,spoke to chris follow the thread :
http://mobile.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=...
http://mobile.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=...
cragswinter said:
Regarding the circuit days track event,spoke to chris follow the thread :
http://mobile.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=...
That's the same as this thread???? Or is this thread????http://mobile.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=...
What did Chris (assuming you mean Chris from Circuit Days) say when you spoke to him?
suggest you guys email the belgian tourist board with your thoughts...
http://www.belgiumtheplaceto.be/contact_press__pr....
Sophie Bouallegue Press & PR Manager press@belgiumtheplaceto.be tel: 020 7531 0392
http://www.belgiumtheplaceto.be/contact_press__pr....
Sophie Bouallegue Press & PR Manager press@belgiumtheplaceto.be tel: 020 7531 0392
Hello, i find this forum thanks to the internet news on this issue. Looks a good place to express concern i love this circuit!
I can report that there has been some misunderstandings here about the situation and causes. I have owned a house 9km from the circuit for many years from the days i worked in the region. I have renters now but still feel connected. I know many people and never the complaint is noise from cars but perhaps why is it all the days now in the country side they say is some of best in the country.
You know, the circuit is old, but not as a circuit all the time. It was partly roads until less than 10 years ago and I think that expressions on internet that locals who complain because they did not see the circuit just give this complaint ammunition.
Until recent years it was a circuit only a few times each month and nobody complained and the hotels and bars survived. Very supporting a F1GP and not enemy of cars or racing.
The ruling is because the state council commissioned a report in 2007 that has reported back that the circuit management have not met their obligations and been unhelpful to the report. The report covers environment impacting in areas of pollution, nature and economy. All classes it says are negative with a circuit as it's operated now. Not just noise.
Looks crazy but the increase in use is not responsible for better economy from the report, which might save the circuit. BUT the effect is negative. They have concerns too about non-belgian commerce at the circuit making big profit because belgium does not see the profit and non-belgian hiring of the circuit have started to avoid the belgian vat but not given over the % of income to belgium and now the authority wants to aquire this back 5 years and its a big job.
So, thats the report. Locals are not really to blame for this and if the circuit stayed what it was 10 years ago they all support 110%. Circuit management get the biggest fault from report.
For September and perhaps October then I think everything Ok and I still visit, perhaps not in October because reprieve is just 14 days for motorsport - but no confirm of that bit, it's from local talk.
To save this great circuit there will be in 2010 change management, reduce the non-motorsport or stop, put in a limit of noise like Zolder and operate with belgian societys. It's what I think.
I hope it's this rather than closing, and like to see the english still visit (sorry i am alone opinion) and it's ok for that because if hire is stopped they already say public events (with discount for belgian drivers) instead and thats ok because usually less cars and half or more of the price than clubs.
Hope this helps - I post again if the report changes.
Jean-P
I can report that there has been some misunderstandings here about the situation and causes. I have owned a house 9km from the circuit for many years from the days i worked in the region. I have renters now but still feel connected. I know many people and never the complaint is noise from cars but perhaps why is it all the days now in the country side they say is some of best in the country.
You know, the circuit is old, but not as a circuit all the time. It was partly roads until less than 10 years ago and I think that expressions on internet that locals who complain because they did not see the circuit just give this complaint ammunition.
Until recent years it was a circuit only a few times each month and nobody complained and the hotels and bars survived. Very supporting a F1GP and not enemy of cars or racing.
The ruling is because the state council commissioned a report in 2007 that has reported back that the circuit management have not met their obligations and been unhelpful to the report. The report covers environment impacting in areas of pollution, nature and economy. All classes it says are negative with a circuit as it's operated now. Not just noise.
Looks crazy but the increase in use is not responsible for better economy from the report, which might save the circuit. BUT the effect is negative. They have concerns too about non-belgian commerce at the circuit making big profit because belgium does not see the profit and non-belgian hiring of the circuit have started to avoid the belgian vat but not given over the % of income to belgium and now the authority wants to aquire this back 5 years and its a big job.
So, thats the report. Locals are not really to blame for this and if the circuit stayed what it was 10 years ago they all support 110%. Circuit management get the biggest fault from report.
For September and perhaps October then I think everything Ok and I still visit, perhaps not in October because reprieve is just 14 days for motorsport - but no confirm of that bit, it's from local talk.
To save this great circuit there will be in 2010 change management, reduce the non-motorsport or stop, put in a limit of noise like Zolder and operate with belgian societys. It's what I think.
I hope it's this rather than closing, and like to see the english still visit (sorry i am alone opinion) and it's ok for that because if hire is stopped they already say public events (with discount for belgian drivers) instead and thats ok because usually less cars and half or more of the price than clubs.
Hope this helps - I post again if the report changes.
Jean-P
I would guess that Spa (as a region) sees sense at some point. Every local business - restaurants, hotels, garages etc primary effected and a ton of other secondary effected - will be gutted if the circuit closes or has its days limited, as trackdays and racing must bring many millions into the area.
[/quote]
+1
Kill joy farts - I bet Spa circuit has been there far longer than most residents!
VX Foxy said:
Digga said:
It's dead to me already; I've stopped competing and spectating.
That's OK, you can just sit in your (sound insulated) garage, reving the engine 
I started mountain biking because it was cheaper and safer than motorsport. So far, on both these counts it's been a resounding failure.
toulon93 said:
I love this circuit. . . {interesting stuff}. . . Hope this helps - I post again if the report changes. Jean-P
Thanks for this. 
I posted yesterday that I believed the issue was more complicated than just killjoys. The Walloons campaigned hard to retain F1 not so long ago. This is NOT like the berks who live near Brands Hatch. Please do come back and post more Jean P! It will make the thread more interesting than the emotive conjecture. My opinion for what its worth, is that the local community will be impacted heavier than they think should the circuit be forced to stop or even restrict its use.
There are a great number of small campsites, B&B's and Bars etc as well as some souvenir type shops alongside the usual bakers / grocers / butchers.
There are currently a finite amount of 'locals' that would be able to keep these business going. Without the daily influx of people using the facilities of the area I believe it would suffer. I'd like to see some real world figures that this report Jean P is referring to so we know just how realistic or twisted they are. Lets face it, the Belgian way is to basically be corrupt otherwise you don't make money, so I cant see how they can complain about 'foreign companies not paying the Belgian taxes' - its not the responsibility of these foreign companies (I guess they are referring to the trackday companies etc here) to pay for the upkeep of the remainder of Belgium and all of its stagnant government nonsense - the companies hiring the use of the circuit are paying the circuit to do so, and I dare say the circuit is paying its taxes dependent upon income! If they were to sort out their own issues and ensure that the people within were paying their way, they could stop blaming everyone else for all their failings. (As a mildly amusing example of this, I was stopped by the Belgian Plod as I was driving a UK registered car. His verbal attack on me went something like: 'Its people like you not paying our taxes that mean we cant fix our roads, so if you pay our taxes we can fix the roads' - Nice theory nobhead, but the other 6 million inhabitants might have something to do with it dont you think!
)
I dont believe that the area (as attractive as it may be) is 'special' enough to survive without the massive appeal of this legendary circuit.
Another argument raised seems to be that 'the circuit in its current format is not as old as people are saying'... Very true, but why has the circuit had to change like this? My guess is that someone in authority didnt want joe public being able to drive round parts of the circuit (otherwise known as public roads) for free. So they changed the local infrastructure accordingly, now you pay 'goldtrack' or whoever to go and have your fun.
Personally I have no problem with them trying to adopt a 'Belgian friendly rate' for use of the track. As long as we dont hear any complaints when the favour is returned.
On that note: Could somebody point me to a safe haven away from money grabbing politically corrupt tax nazis, so that I can iron out the furrow in my brow.
There are a great number of small campsites, B&B's and Bars etc as well as some souvenir type shops alongside the usual bakers / grocers / butchers.
There are currently a finite amount of 'locals' that would be able to keep these business going. Without the daily influx of people using the facilities of the area I believe it would suffer. I'd like to see some real world figures that this report Jean P is referring to so we know just how realistic or twisted they are. Lets face it, the Belgian way is to basically be corrupt otherwise you don't make money, so I cant see how they can complain about 'foreign companies not paying the Belgian taxes' - its not the responsibility of these foreign companies (I guess they are referring to the trackday companies etc here) to pay for the upkeep of the remainder of Belgium and all of its stagnant government nonsense - the companies hiring the use of the circuit are paying the circuit to do so, and I dare say the circuit is paying its taxes dependent upon income! If they were to sort out their own issues and ensure that the people within were paying their way, they could stop blaming everyone else for all their failings. (As a mildly amusing example of this, I was stopped by the Belgian Plod as I was driving a UK registered car. His verbal attack on me went something like: 'Its people like you not paying our taxes that mean we cant fix our roads, so if you pay our taxes we can fix the roads' - Nice theory nobhead, but the other 6 million inhabitants might have something to do with it dont you think!
)I dont believe that the area (as attractive as it may be) is 'special' enough to survive without the massive appeal of this legendary circuit.
Another argument raised seems to be that 'the circuit in its current format is not as old as people are saying'... Very true, but why has the circuit had to change like this? My guess is that someone in authority didnt want joe public being able to drive round parts of the circuit (otherwise known as public roads) for free. So they changed the local infrastructure accordingly, now you pay 'goldtrack' or whoever to go and have your fun.
Personally I have no problem with them trying to adopt a 'Belgian friendly rate' for use of the track. As long as we dont hear any complaints when the favour is returned.
On that note: Could somebody point me to a safe haven away from money grabbing politically corrupt tax nazis, so that I can iron out the furrow in my brow.
I am sure the locals would love the circuit to go back to how it was 10 years ago. Perhaps they should tear up the ring road that's been put in to support the local traffic as well ? I wonder who wanted the ring road built ? I wonder if it was a PITA when the public roads were shut to make up the track and there was no ring road? What exactly did the locals think would happen after the ring road was built ?
And the belgians are'nt seeing all the profit from the track, oh dear what a shame , now who was it that suggested this european union lark ? completely escapes me.
Sounds as if the track management is caught between a rock and a hard place. Make the place profitable and yer dammed etc. Did the report conviently forget the income from the B&B's, Bars , restaurants fuel stations and garages and visits to other parts of belgium on route (brussels, Brugge) when taking all this into account ? Doubt it.
And the belgians are'nt seeing all the profit from the track, oh dear what a shame , now who was it that suggested this european union lark ? completely escapes me.
Sounds as if the track management is caught between a rock and a hard place. Make the place profitable and yer dammed etc. Did the report conviently forget the income from the B&B's, Bars , restaurants fuel stations and garages and visits to other parts of belgium on route (brussels, Brugge) when taking all this into account ? Doubt it.
rypt said:
shoestring7 said:
JamesAsh said:
This is like the people who bought a house on the Heathrow flight-path and then complain about the noise!
How about if you'd bought the house 30 years ago and beleived the promises that the number of flights wouldn't increase, and the East/West landing cycle would remain. And then BAA found it convenient to land flights over your head at 3am, stop the East/Weat landing cycle, build two new terminals, a new runway, and treble the number of flights. Wouldn't you have a decent case for them to reduce the noise levels? SS7
dcw@pr said:
Years ago when I worked at trackdays a lot, the boss at a well known trackday company told me that hiring Spa for the day cost ~£15k, compared to Silverstone/Donington etc coming in at around £40k.
Maybe they are underpricing themselves?
You may take this circuit for 14,000€ each day. previously this about 9000 pounds but now you prefer giving money [crunched credit] to your banks!Maybe they are underpricing themselves?
Less after october but often it very cold.
If someone propose a price of 40,000€ each day but circuit open on 30% days of now then the suspension will become dust and everyone can enjoy the races for many years.
A911DOM said:
My opinion for what its worth, is that the local community will be impacted heavier than they think should the circuit be forced to stop or even restrict its use.
There are a great number of small campsites, B&B's and Bars etc as well as some souvenir type shops alongside the usual bakers / grocers / butchers.
There are currently a finite amount of 'locals' that would be able to keep these business going. Without the daily influx of people using the facilities of the area I believe it would suffer. I'd like to see some real world figures that this report Jean P is referring to so we know just how realistic or twisted they are. Lets face it, the Belgian way is to basically be corrupt otherwise you don't make money, so I cant see how they can complain about 'foreign companies not paying the Belgian taxes' - its not the responsibility of these foreign companies (I guess they are referring to the trackday companies etc here) to pay for the upkeep of the remainder of Belgium and all of its stagnant government nonsense - the companies hiring the use of the circuit are paying the circuit to do so, and I dare say the circuit is paying its taxes dependent upon income! If they were to sort out their own issues and ensure that the people within were paying their way, they could stop blaming everyone else for all their failings. (As a mildly amusing example of this, I was stopped by the Belgian Plod as I was driving a UK registered car. His verbal attack on me went something like: 'Its people like you not paying our taxes that mean we cant fix our roads, so if you pay our taxes we can fix the roads' - Nice theory nobhead, but the other 6 million inhabitants might have something to do with it dont you think! )
I dont believe that the area (as attractive as it may be) is 'special' enough to survive without the massive appeal of this legendary circuit.
Another argument raised seems to be that 'the circuit in its current format is not as old as people are saying'... Very true, but why has the circuit had to change like this? My guess is that someone in authority didnt want joe public being able to drive round parts of the circuit (otherwise known as public roads) for free. So they changed the local infrastructure accordingly, now you pay 'goldtrack' or whoever to go and have your fun.
Personally I have no problem with them trying to adopt a 'Belgian friendly rate' for use of the track. As long as we dont hear any complaints when the favour is returned.
On that note: Could somebody point me to a safe haven away from money grabbing politically corrupt tax nazis, so that I can iron out the furrow in my brow.
I try hard to understand your textual but please I do not want to begin a negative for the belgian. my wife is born in the local hospital here!There are a great number of small campsites, B&B's and Bars etc as well as some souvenir type shops alongside the usual bakers / grocers / butchers.
There are currently a finite amount of 'locals' that would be able to keep these business going. Without the daily influx of people using the facilities of the area I believe it would suffer. I'd like to see some real world figures that this report Jean P is referring to so we know just how realistic or twisted they are. Lets face it, the Belgian way is to basically be corrupt otherwise you don't make money, so I cant see how they can complain about 'foreign companies not paying the Belgian taxes' - its not the responsibility of these foreign companies (I guess they are referring to the trackday companies etc here) to pay for the upkeep of the remainder of Belgium and all of its stagnant government nonsense - the companies hiring the use of the circuit are paying the circuit to do so, and I dare say the circuit is paying its taxes dependent upon income! If they were to sort out their own issues and ensure that the people within were paying their way, they could stop blaming everyone else for all their failings. (As a mildly amusing example of this, I was stopped by the Belgian Plod as I was driving a UK registered car. His verbal attack on me went something like: 'Its people like you not paying our taxes that mean we cant fix our roads, so if you pay our taxes we can fix the roads' - Nice theory nobhead, but the other 6 million inhabitants might have something to do with it dont you think!
)I dont believe that the area (as attractive as it may be) is 'special' enough to survive without the massive appeal of this legendary circuit.
Another argument raised seems to be that 'the circuit in its current format is not as old as people are saying'... Very true, but why has the circuit had to change like this? My guess is that someone in authority didnt want joe public being able to drive round parts of the circuit (otherwise known as public roads) for free. So they changed the local infrastructure accordingly, now you pay 'goldtrack' or whoever to go and have your fun.
Personally I have no problem with them trying to adopt a 'Belgian friendly rate' for use of the track. As long as we dont hear any complaints when the favour is returned.
On that note: Could somebody point me to a safe haven away from money grabbing politically corrupt tax nazis, so that I can iron out the furrow in my brow.
I can not recoup a copy of the report and I only expand what some friends with business in these towns tell me. I am sure the issue is noise and impact but the experts are independent and question the economic impact as not being a positive one.
Understand that this comment about non-belgian and tax income is about reading the invisible text in the between and a reference to a small grey hair english monster who control F1GP and make it lose the belgian taxpayer a subsidy for him and Mr Max sex nazi!
I do not imagine the tax authority is concern about the profit uk trackday is making for anyone this is too small but if they do recoup the tax for buying the circuit sortie but dont give the vat to the authority and give to the lower uk authority then it is against the spirt of the eu and perhaps they get an invoice for suprise. No problem though you crazy english like to pay your club 350% more than belgian and i always remember the crazy english are more on their trackday and park in rain too, so they have the balance!
simple 2 examples:
First is 10 years ago everyone love to have this race history in the region. each race does yes close some road, but not really busy road. the community is involved in these meetings. they wave flags, they sell sausige, they smile with beer and always clean their rubbish. This defines them and all is well.
Second is with situation now.
Which is the better?
bosscerbera said:
toulon93 said:
I love this circuit. . . {interesting stuff}. . . Hope this helps - I post again if the report changes. Jean-P
Thanks for this. I posted yesterday that I believed the issue was more complicated than just killjoys. The Walloons campaigned hard to retain F1 not so long ago. This is NOT like the berks who live near Brands Hatch. Please do come back and post more Jean P! It will make the thread more interesting than the emotive conjecture. I am not sure the audience here is correct after all, i see some thing very negative towards those who do more in the years to keep this circuit than any. But i will try!
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