So Button will be Drivers Champion.....

[Eric Mc]

If a driver is dominant in the early part of a season and then fades a bit as the season progresses - but still manages to be Champion, is he better or worse than a driver who comes good at the end of a season and wins the championship?

My hunch is that, as Button's wins seem so long ago now, his achievements earlier in the year are less respected than if he had been mediopdcre at the start but winning well now.

Any driver who manages to win 6 GPs in a year is going to be worthy of a champion. Keke Rosberg won the 1982 championship with only one win.

[FNG]

Yep, short memory syndrome in some of these replies. And of course some people never rated him / won't move on from the contract saga / felt let down after the hype of Williams when the Renault performance was poor / think 113 GPs with only one win tells the whole story / don't like his bumfluff beard / whatever, and to them the latter part of the season is reaffirmation of their previously held view.

Reaffirmation of a previously held view is worth clinging on to, cos it shows that you were right all along and winning those 6 races from 7 was just a blip, an anomaly, and in no way indicative that a driver may have been better than they thought all these years or that they perhaps don't know as much as they thought they did about F1.

Dunno why taking points for a WDC is suddenly unacceptable after building a big lead. Seemed OK last year when Hamilton backed off and played the percentages in the last few races, finished 5th in the last race of the season, etc. Button has had a car that wasn't working properly for a few races, coupled with a mid-season blip, but has still made a lot less mistakes than his team-mate, been faster overall, and has brought home several wins - enough to warrant a WDC in pretty much any season.

So - good - if he's champion it's deserved IMO.

[Project 644]

Joe911 said:

profstoff said:

it's a consistent performance over the course of the year. Jenson has done that this year

Jenson's points per race this season:
10 5 6 10 10 10 10 3 4 2 2 - 8 4
I see two clearly delineated parts of the season ... WINNER and then average - how is that consistent?

I too would like to see him champion if he reasserts himself as the clear class of the field in the last races available.

Edited by Joe911 on Monday 28th September 08:28

Because he is consistently in the points. Only one retirement (Spa) every other finish in the points. How is that not consistent.

[Red Cabbage]

Richard Burns won one event is his World Championship year of 2001.

[KaraK]

IMO "fluke" WDCs are very rare - the very nature of a ~17 race championship will iron that sort of thing out.

None of the other competitive drivers has put in a season as clean and as error free as Button has and thats why he is in the position he is in. Rubens has put in some great performances in the second half of the season but in the first 6-7 races when he needed to be really banking some points and using the car advantage the Brawn's had he was down in the midfield crashing into people. Vettel has been quick but error prone (for what its worth I think he'll come out of it a better driver), Webber has improved massively over previous years but he is still not WDC material in my eyes and my instincts tell me he never will be.

[Leithen]

Button will be World Champion whilst those who criticise him remain in their armchairs attempting to devalue his achievement.

What is it about this country?

[TonyHetherington]

Joe911 said:

profstoff said:

it's a consistent performance over the course of the year. Jenson has done that this year

Jenson's points per race this season:
10 5 6 10 10 10 10 3 4 2 2 - 8 4
I see two clearly delineated parts of the season ... WINNER and then average - how is that consistent?

I too would like to see him champion if he reasserts himself as the clear class of the field in the last races available.

compare that, then, to Lewis Hamilton (a worthy champion where some believe Jenson won't be)'s stats of last year; (these are his positions, rather than points);

1 5 13 3 2 1 Ret 10 1 1 5 2 3 7 3 12 1 5

One retirement (as button). sporadic wins interspersed with some low finishes (13/5/7/12/5) however consistently in the points. It's extremely similar to Jenson's, and yet one's deemed worthy and the other not?

Incidentally, I thought Jenson won the first few of this season so double checked and these are the positions I find for Jenson's 2009 season which differ from yours a little.

1 1 3 1 1 1 1 6 5 7 7 Ret 2 5

[anonymous-user]

flemke said:

I guess that includes me.

The season's not over yet. Button could drive brilliantly in the final three races and demonstrate that he's a worthy champion.
As of today, in his last 7 races he has had no mechanical failures, yet he has only once finished in the top 4, and that was on a day when his 37 year-old teammate who may lose his job after the season, in an identical car, clearly had the better of him. Not an imperious display.
If he wins this year, he'll be champion. Sure, that's a fact.
Most people agree that, last year, both Massa and Hamilton deserved to be WDC. If it is possible to have a season in which more than one driver deserves to be WDC, then it has to be possible to have a season in which none deserves to be.
If Button were to win one of the last three races in convincing fashion, as he won several earlier in the year, then there will be no room for doubt. Were he to continue to limp along, nursing his lead, watching his mirrors and benefiting too much from the mistakes of others, then one would be entitled to consider this year's champion to be less deserving than many others have been.

whilst i agree with your comments to some extent, the cars are so markedly different at this point of the year, in comparison to the start of the season, that i dont see how jenson "winning one more race in convincing fashion" will make his championship more worthy.

the brawn was awesome at the start of the season and clearly had the jump on everyone as they battled to get kers working. the red bulls came to form and now ferrari and mclaren have sorted out their cars so the competition is far closer and the opposition more capable of taking wins from brawn.

jenson did all he could at the start of the season to make the most of the advantage and now its clear that the other teams have caught up and winning races is not a formality...

[patmahe]

Button got the best out of the car when it was the best car on the grid. Others have now caught up and on some circuits the Brawn seems to struggle. Jenson can only drive the car he is given on the circuit they are at, if conditions don't suit, then he simply has to do the best job he can in the circumstances. That is as much as he can do, if its enough to win the Championship then great, if not then thats hard luck.

Everyone started the season on 0 points and Jenson has outscored all others, how could he be classed as an unworthy champion?

Some will say that Barrichello isn't a top class driver and yet is beating Button, I happen to think that Barrichello is in the form of his life and you can see it in him that he's really enjoying his driving at the moment and Jenson is a little off the boil. Every season has its ups and downs, its managing these while still scoring points that wins championships. If Jenson wins the title at the next race then good luck to him.

[Joe911]

Project 644 said:

Because he is consistently in the points. Only one retirement (Spa) every other finish in the points. How is that not consistent.

Consistently in the points could be 8th every race - which is consistent - he consistently starts every race too
I'm not trying to knock him - his driving style is superb, given a good car he's fantastic - I'd just welcome him more as WDC if he can finish off the season in dominant style.

[TonyHetherington]

patmahe said:

I happen to think that Barrichello is in the form of his life and you can see it in him that he's really enjoying his driving at the moment

Indeed, you almost feel a little sorry for Barrichello. Having spent so long as second fiddle to Schumacher, this is realistically his last ever chance to become WDC, it's just a shame there can't be two this year

[Project 644]

Joe911 said:

Project 644 said:

Because he is consistently in the points. Only one retirement (Spa) every other finish in the points. How is that not consistent.

Consistently in the points could be 8th every race - which is consistent - he consistently starts every race too
I'm not trying to knock him - his driving style is superb, given a good car he's fantastic - I'd just welcome him more as WDC if he can finish off the season in dominant style.

Would you prefer he chucked it in the wall and lost the championship in trying to catch another position A La Hamilton at Monza, or would you prefer he won the championship by keeping a sensible head and consolidating a good points finish?

[Project 644]

Red Cabbage said:

Richard Burns won one event is his World Championship year of 2001.

As did Rosberg in 1982 and Hawthorne in 1958.

[Joe911]

Project 644 said:

Would you prefer he chucked it in the wall and lost the championship in trying to catch another position A La Hamilton at Monza, or would you prefer he won the championship by keeping a sensible head and consolidating a good points finish?

One of the things that (at least initially) was good about Hamilton - was that you could see he was putting everything into it and was prepared to actually race and that includes taking risks - not just drive fast from the front - but OVERTAKE OTHER CARS. It almost seems that Lewis has now been sucked into the F1 world of follow my leader.
Jenson in the car is fast, cool, calm, sensible - sometimes it's nice to see some heart, some flare, some daring.

[townrow]

TonyHetherington said:

patmahe said:

I happen to think that Barrichello is in the form of his life and you can see it in him that he's really enjoying his driving at the moment

Indeed, you almost feel a little sorry for Barrichello. Having spent so long as second fiddle to Schumacher, this is realistically his last ever chance to become WDC, it's just a shame there can't be two this year

Clearly a nice guy - as everyone tells us all the time.....I never heard JB have a 'Blah Blah Blah' about his team....
There was good reason why he played second fiddle to Schumacher. On his day he was very quick but most days he was just a driver - How much does Ross have to kick him up the arse in a race to get him going.

Back on Topic. I wrote off Button a couple of years ago as I assumed he could not develop a car. Obviously I was wrong. But I would like to see him beat RB with a great and exciting on track performance - but thats not F1 or his driving style.

He is the most deserving driver this season and I hope I can congratulate him after Japan.

Best drivers on the grid though - Lewis and Alonso - sometimes Kimi.....

[Project 644]

Joe911 said:

Project 644 said:

Would you prefer he chucked it in the wall and lost the championship in trying to catch another position A La Hamilton at Monza, or would you prefer he won the championship by keeping a sensible head and consolidating a good points finish?

One of the things that (at least initially) was good about Hamilton - was that you could see he was putting everything into it and was prepared to actually race and that includes taking risks - not just drive fast from the front - but OVERTAKE OTHER CARS. It almost seems that Lewis has now been sucked into the F1 world of follow my leader.
Jenson in the car is fast, cool, calm, sensible - sometimes it's nice to see some heart, some flare, some daring.

I can see your point, but the way Jenson drove the end of the middle stint in singapore was not lacking any of those characteristics.

Does a "true champion" (whatever one of those is?) have to be like that all the time?

[kevin ritson]

Project 644 said:

Red Cabbage said:

Richard Burns won one event is his World Championship year of 2001.

As did Rosberg in 1982 and Hawthorne in 1958.

I think this is the problem - most armchair commentators have no appreciation of the history of the sport and assume what happened in the last 3 years is typical. 1982 was a transitional year, similarly in 1979, the year that perhaps reflects this season more than others, one driver was consistent over the duration and won, despite not always having the best car. Another good example is 1984 - Lauda did exactly what he had to and no-one thinks he's unworthy, do they?

As a final point, here's an article from someone who knows what he's talking about: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/09/bu...

Edited by kevin ritson on Monday 28th September 09:42

[jamieboy]

TonyHetherington said:

Joe911 said:

Jenson's points per race this season:
10 5 6 10 10 10 10 3 4 2 2 - 8 4
I see two clearly delineated parts of the season ... WINNER and then average - how is that consistent?

Incidentally, I thought Jenson won the first few of this season so double checked and these are the positions I find for Jenson's 2009 season which differ from yours a little.

1 1 3 1 1 1 1 6 5 7 7 Ret 2 5

I don't think they differ - remember Jenson got half points for the Malaysian race that was abandoned, so 1st place = 5 points.

[TonyHetherington]

jamieboy said:

TonyHetherington said:

Joe911 said:

Jenson's points per race this season:
10 5 6 10 10 10 10 3 4 2 2 - 8 4
I see two clearly delineated parts of the season ... WINNER and then average - how is that consistent?

Incidentally, I thought Jenson won the first few of this season so double checked and these are the positions I find for Jenson's 2009 season which differ from yours a little.

1 1 3 1 1 1 1 6 5 7 7 Ret 2 5

I don't think they differ - remember Jenson got half points for the Malaysian race that was abandoned, so 1st place = 5 points.

Ah of course - apologies Joe!

[johnaachen]

I don't think he would be a worthy champion should he become WDC. In the first 7/8 races he only had one person to beat and that was Rubens as the Brawn was so much better than anyone else. From race 7/8 on he has struggled - he hasnt been trying to consoliate his points or whatever you may call it he has just struggled! When LH won last year he was deemed worthy because he had been in a close fight against other people with similarly competitive machinery the wehole season. This has not been the case this year. Yes he will have more points than anyone else but he took the majority of those points when there was nobody else to compete with!