Interesting F1 "Rain Master" stats
Discussion
Look, I didnt mention Rodriguez and Ixkc for the obvious reason that the OP was talking about F1 drives. Yes, yes I know they did F1, but their Godhood state comes from sportscars and therefore not quite in keeping with the spirit of the thread. Lets be honest here...it doesnt usually take me much to wax lyrical about the wet weather talents of Rodriguez does it?
Apologies for JYS at Spa, I did of course mean the Ring. Posting quickly on the mobile whilst grabbing a 5 min break from testing = mental cock up!
Apologies for JYS at Spa, I did of course mean the Ring. Posting quickly on the mobile whilst grabbing a 5 min break from testing = mental cock up!
mattikake said:
blahblahblah
So you're comparing vastly differing sample sizes with no proper static point of reference (they all had differing opposition drivers, differing machinery, differing race calendars etc etc), altering individual facts to suit your intended interpretation and then telling us all its a done deal.Do you work in climate research by any chance?
llewop said:
VladD said:
In the opinion of Motorsport magazine, a Mr. J. Button of Frome, Dorset is the best ever driver in the wet.
I've heard that article being attributed before, when was it in the magazine and is it available online anywhere?ta
mattikake said:
CampDavid said:
mattikake said:
Hamilton's stats for talent purposes, include Belgium '08 as a win, simply because we all know it was 
and includes the likes of Nurburgring '07 where he aquaplaned off with about 5 others, but got going a lap down and finished 9th. Had he retired his stats would be better. His stats also include China '07 as his fault, not the teams'. Still, if he wins his next wet race, which is a distinct possibility, he will surpass Schumacher.
Modifying the stats totally loses the credibility, especially as you still haven't grasped the obvious reason for the Belgium DQ, or the fact that as a driver he's responsible for monitoring his tyres. and includes the likes of Nurburgring '07 where he aquaplaned off with about 5 others, but got going a lap down and finished 9th. Had he retired his stats would be better. His stats also include China '07 as his fault, not the teams'. Still, if he wins his next wet race, which is a distinct possibility, he will surpass Schumacher.Hamilton crossed the line first in Belgium. These stats are about who was the best in the rain, not who racked up the most points in the rain. A world of difference.
Anyway, the reason for Belgium DSQ was obvious - the Stewards are idiots!
I don't want todig the Lewis/Belgium/he was robbed/the FIA are rasist bull s
t up again. He passed Kimi, he let him by, however still took an advantage by being right on him into the next corner. Did he get an advantage? Of course he did, you'd have to be retarded not to spot that.Edited by CampDavid on Thursday 10th December 15:19
Mini1275 said:
VladD said:
In the opinion of Motorsport magazine, a Mr. J. Button of Frome, Dorset is the best ever driver in the wet.
You may disagree, but come on, honestly, roffling is just silly.
brayash said:
Mini1275 said:
VladD said:
In the opinion of Motorsport magazine, a Mr. J. Button of Frome, Dorset is the best ever driver in the wet.
You may disagree, but come on, honestly, roffling is just silly.
thankyou 
Mini1275 said:
brayash said:
Mini1275 said:
VladD said:
In the opinion of Motorsport magazine, a Mr. J. Button of Frome, Dorset is the best ever driver in the wet.
You may disagree, but come on, honestly, roffling is just silly.
thankyou Anyway (idiot
), I know you weren't referring to VladD. You were however referring to a motorsport journalist. It is his job to be informed about his given subject. I'll admit that this isn't always the case, but let's put it differently. Had somebody within the F1 paddock made the same comment (be it an engineer, manager, mechanic etc) would you still roffle? Just because you have a different, and most likely less informed opinion?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCt2brsEweo
Reason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
Reason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
I saw a wet drive by Clark that I have never seen the like of.
It was only a saloon car race, a support to the main race of the day, at Brands. He was driving a big V8 Ford. He'd qualified on pole. Just before the start we had torrential rain, of such venom that the start would probably have been delayed nowadays. I was on the bank at Clearways and it gave way.
Evidently everyone was circumspect at the start and all got round the stadium section and onto the GP circuit extension. We waited and then Clark appeared. He drifted into Clearways floating all over, the wash from the car like a speedboat. It was magic and we all applauded. And then waited.
Clark negotiated Druids before the next car appeared.
Clark slowed during the race, presumably to allow others to catch up, but he seemed to get bored with that and speeded up again. The weather got worse and at one time he threw the Ford into Clearways seemingly just to put up spray.
I'd parked at South Bank and returned to my car after the race and there were groups there who had seen him around Druids. It seems he was awesome there.
People use the phrase "class part" time and again without meaning it literally but I tell you, he was a class apart. It was a masterclass of wet weather driving.
I know enthusiam can blind you, and I was overwhelmed by Clark, but I have never seen his like.
I saw him drive a Lotus Cortina at Crystal Palace and he pushed Whitmore or perhaps Bailey - everyone else was overshaddowed - neither a slouch although I accept they weren't class acts either, in a 4.7 Mustang that Clark couldn't out accelerate. So he grandstanded, sliding his car around the bends just for the enjoyment of the spectators and, I read later, the photographers.
Senna came closest to Clark but he never equalled him in my eyes, let alone surpassed him. The difference between Clark and Stewart was obvious yet Jackie was brilliant.
I know it is, in reality, impossible to say who was the best F1 driver of all time. It is all subjective. Had Derek Warwick been chosen by Todt then we might well be arguing a case for him given the results. But he didn't and we are not. But there is one thing in which Calrk was the master.
He transmitted his enjoyment of driving to the crowd.
I was at Club when Mansell took the Williams-Judd to the limit. The crowd, regardless of affiliations (apart from a Ferrari mob) all cheered and applauded. He put it onto second on the grid at that time, despite the turbo-charged competition. I was standing near an old boy (perhaps a bit yonger than I am now - boy is that painful to think of) and said to him that it reminded me of Clark. He said the same thought had occurred to him. He then told me stories of what he'd seen from the immediate post-war eara and he reckoned Clark the best as well.
That was one hell of a lap by Mansell but it seemed that Clark did one hell of a lap time and again.
They say rain is a great equaliser but in my opinion it is a divider. It divided Clark from the rest anyway.
I don't think thee was ever a time since 1966, when I became an F1 fan, when one driver overwhelmed the rest as much as Clark did.
It was only a saloon car race, a support to the main race of the day, at Brands. He was driving a big V8 Ford. He'd qualified on pole. Just before the start we had torrential rain, of such venom that the start would probably have been delayed nowadays. I was on the bank at Clearways and it gave way.
Evidently everyone was circumspect at the start and all got round the stadium section and onto the GP circuit extension. We waited and then Clark appeared. He drifted into Clearways floating all over, the wash from the car like a speedboat. It was magic and we all applauded. And then waited.
Clark negotiated Druids before the next car appeared.
Clark slowed during the race, presumably to allow others to catch up, but he seemed to get bored with that and speeded up again. The weather got worse and at one time he threw the Ford into Clearways seemingly just to put up spray.
I'd parked at South Bank and returned to my car after the race and there were groups there who had seen him around Druids. It seems he was awesome there.
People use the phrase "class part" time and again without meaning it literally but I tell you, he was a class apart. It was a masterclass of wet weather driving.
I know enthusiam can blind you, and I was overwhelmed by Clark, but I have never seen his like.
I saw him drive a Lotus Cortina at Crystal Palace and he pushed Whitmore or perhaps Bailey - everyone else was overshaddowed - neither a slouch although I accept they weren't class acts either, in a 4.7 Mustang that Clark couldn't out accelerate. So he grandstanded, sliding his car around the bends just for the enjoyment of the spectators and, I read later, the photographers.
Senna came closest to Clark but he never equalled him in my eyes, let alone surpassed him. The difference between Clark and Stewart was obvious yet Jackie was brilliant.
I know it is, in reality, impossible to say who was the best F1 driver of all time. It is all subjective. Had Derek Warwick been chosen by Todt then we might well be arguing a case for him given the results. But he didn't and we are not. But there is one thing in which Calrk was the master.
He transmitted his enjoyment of driving to the crowd.
I was at Club when Mansell took the Williams-Judd to the limit. The crowd, regardless of affiliations (apart from a Ferrari mob) all cheered and applauded. He put it onto second on the grid at that time, despite the turbo-charged competition. I was standing near an old boy (perhaps a bit yonger than I am now - boy is that painful to think of) and said to him that it reminded me of Clark. He said the same thought had occurred to him. He then told me stories of what he'd seen from the immediate post-war eara and he reckoned Clark the best as well.
That was one hell of a lap by Mansell but it seemed that Clark did one hell of a lap time and again.
They say rain is a great equaliser but in my opinion it is a divider. It divided Clark from the rest anyway.
I don't think thee was ever a time since 1966, when I became an F1 fan, when one driver overwhelmed the rest as much as Clark did.
phatgixer said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCt2brsEweo
Reason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
People forget Bellof that day in Monaco because of Senna and indeed most "fans" have no idea that Bellof was either even in the race was bReason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
ksing both of them off the track!But then thats part of the reason Bellof died
As others have said before...too fast to live Bellof and Toivonen...will we ever see their like again?
phatgixer said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCt2brsEweo
Reason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
RubbishReason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
Its doubtful Ickx cared at all about who won at Monaco
Enmity between them? Ive never read anything of the sort, yes Ickx was the old guard and king at Porsche, Bellof the coming man but Ive never read any hit of issues between them
and you must be the only one of the 'people' who think Ickx turned in on him
Ickx took the normal line through Eau Rouge, Bellof a made a suicidal (unfortunately literal) attempt on the inside and the cars collided. No way was Ickx to blame for the accident
And Bellof was quicker around the ring than Ickx whilst trying to make his name, its nothing particularly surprising, merey the new order. Ickx had done the same to others nearkly 20 years previously.
brayash said:
Mini1275 said:
brayash said:
Mini1275 said:
VladD said:
In the opinion of Motorsport magazine, a Mr. J. Button of Frome, Dorset is the best ever driver in the wet.
You may disagree, but come on, honestly, roffling is just silly.
thankyou Anyway (idiot
), I know you weren't referring to VladD. You were however referring to a motorsport journalist. It is his job to be informed about his given subject. I'll admit that this isn't always the case, but let's put it differently. Had somebody within the F1 paddock made the same comment (be it an engineer, manager, mechanic etc) would you still roffle? Just because you have a different, and most likely less informed opinion?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3vWhhxTxiY&fea...
ffs guys, this is a porsche 917 with a rear mounted flat 12 and bugger all ground effects/negliible aerodynamic downforce, an unwieldy beast at the best of times, at brands, in the rain.the second place car was some five laps behind you, pedro you are a god, and i love you for it!
ffs guys, this is a porsche 917 with a rear mounted flat 12 and bugger all ground effects/negliible aerodynamic downforce, an unwieldy beast at the best of times, at brands, in the rain.the second place car was some five laps behind you, pedro you are a god, and i love you for it!
DJC said:
phatgixer said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCt2brsEweo
Reason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
People forget Bellof that day in Monaco because of Senna and indeed most "fans" have no idea that Bellof was either even in the race was bReason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
ksing both of them off the track!But then thats part of the reason Bellof died
As others have said before...too fast to live Bellof and Toivonen...will we ever see their like again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86qKHDq5Vv8
i dont know what i love more, the delta s4 or toivenen!!!! in many ways he was like colin mcrae in his win or bust attitude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1RX-qJ-maM&fea... for some awesome talbot sunbeam/911 action
ps yes i am a bit woozy after works christmas party, sue me!
i dont know what i love more, the delta s4 or toivenen!!!! in many ways he was like colin mcrae in his win or bust attitude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1RX-qJ-maM&fea... for some awesome talbot sunbeam/911 action
ps yes i am a bit woozy after works christmas party, sue me!
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 10th December 23:36
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