Interesting F1 "Rain Master" stats
Discussion
The Mac Attack is the last in a now broken chain.
Munari - Henri - Mac.
What we have now are pale immitations of what went before and there is nobody on the horizon who even looks like attempting to be their heir apparent. Yes, others win more, are more consistent...but lets be honest...you dont watch for them.
Munari - Henri - Mac.
What we have now are pale immitations of what went before and there is nobody on the horizon who even looks like attempting to be their heir apparent. Yes, others win more, are more consistent...but lets be honest...you dont watch for them.
pablo said:
DJC said:
phatgixer said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCt2brsEweo
Reason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
People forget Bellof that day in Monaco because of Senna and indeed most "fans" have no idea that Bellof was either even in the race was bReason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
ksing both of them off the track!But then thats part of the reason Bellof died
As others have said before...too fast to live Bellof and Toivonen...will we ever see their like again?
ForzaGilles said:
pablo said:
DJC said:
phatgixer said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCt2brsEweo
Reason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
People forget Bellof that day in Monaco because of Senna and indeed most "fans" have no idea that Bellof was either even in the race was bReason Number one to dislike Jackie Ickx...
Many people think he threw the red (he was clerk of the course) due to wanting Prost to win when Senna was in hot pursuit, but the reality was far more likely he didn't want Bellof to win who was faster than them both and looking on for the win...
They were team mates at Rothmans Porsche at the time and there was enmity between them.
People still think he turned in on Bellof at Eau Rouge....
Also, he was 10 seconds slower round the ring than bellof, a place Ickx had tried to make his own in sportscars...
ksing both of them off the track!But then thats part of the reason Bellof died
As others have said before...too fast to live Bellof and Toivonen...will we ever see their like again?
thanks for the correction, i wasnt sure who it was. ickx and bell were awesome, as was stuck, that was pretty much the group c dram team through the eighties. they could race in the rain too!...
jamieboy said:
mattikake said:
Schumacher made 9 unforced errors... Currently these stats count running to the back of Coulthard as his own fault, because we all know it was his fault, not Coulthard's (Coulthard stayed on the racing line, 100% the correct thing to do in heavy spray. Schumacher is an obvious for not admitting this 
).
Interestingly, Coulthard now says that coming off the throttle on the racing line in heavy spray was entirely the wrong thing to do. He attributes it to youthful ignorance. for not admitting this ).Coulthard said:
The reality is, I lifted to let him past me but I did it in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now. In 1998 I didn't have the experience and knowledge.
Still, that Schumacher, eh? What a rotter. Grrr.
In an interview at one of the GP's this season (can remember which) the BBC crew were joined by Schumi and this inevitably came up again. It was clear that neither still wants to admit it was their fault, but it was also clear DC was now working as a pundit and also knows he can't have any such arguments and backed down quickly with agreeing to disagree. Quite funny to see if Schumi would realise his error, both in that and in his over-reaction afterwards (also usually a clue as to knowing it was his fault).
CampDavid said:
mattikake said:
CampDavid said:
mattikake said:
Hamilton's stats for talent purposes, include Belgium '08 as a win, simply because we all know it was 
and includes the likes of Nurburgring '07 where he aquaplaned off with about 5 others, but got going a lap down and finished 9th. Had he retired his stats would be better. His stats also include China '07 as his fault, not the teams'. Still, if he wins his next wet race, which is a distinct possibility, he will surpass Schumacher.
Modifying the stats totally loses the credibility, especially as you still haven't grasped the obvious reason for the Belgium DQ, or the fact that as a driver he's responsible for monitoring his tyres. and includes the likes of Nurburgring '07 where he aquaplaned off with about 5 others, but got going a lap down and finished 9th. Had he retired his stats would be better. His stats also include China '07 as his fault, not the teams'. Still, if he wins his next wet race, which is a distinct possibility, he will surpass Schumacher.Hamilton crossed the line first in Belgium. These stats are about who was the best in the rain, not who racked up the most points in the rain. A world of difference.
Anyway, the reason for Belgium DSQ was obvious - the Stewards are idiots!
I noticed they also didn't have Hungary 2006 as a wet race either! But I had to include that when doing JB's stats. (Too miserable to publish seeing as he spent at least 2 seasons coming last in a crap car regardless of the conditions.)
Benetton did a lot of cheating that season. Maybe the stewards thought more of it than a spin? I do remember the penalty and thinking it was unjust too, but being a patriotic supporter of Hill at the time, this didn't bother me!
mattikake said:
It was clear that neither still wants to admit it was their fault, but it was also clear DC was now working as a pundit and also knows he can't have any such arguments and backed down quickly with agreeing to disagree. Quite funny to see if Schumi would realise his error, both in that and in his over-reaction afterwards (also usually a clue as to knowing it was his fault).
I should have said, the quote where Coulthard accepted it was his fault was from 2003.Coulthard said:
The reality is that I lifted to let him pass me, but I lifted in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now.
In 1998, I didn't have the experience and the knowledge, and I had never had someone run into the back of me.
The minute I knew he was there, and I was told by the team that he was and was trying to allow him to pass me, I should have made a smarter decision.
In 1998, I didn't have the experience and the knowledge, and I had never had someone run into the back of me.
The minute I knew he was there, and I was told by the team that he was and was trying to allow him to pass me, I should have made a smarter decision.
Schumacher said:
I'm glad he finally shares the same opinion as me on this incident.
I guess it's possible that these two vastly experienced F1 drivers, who seem to agree entirely that it was Coulthard's mistake, are calling the situation incorrectly. mattikake said:
Pah. Usually the accepted technique for F1 drivers in wet weather driving is to listen to the engine of the guy infrton to know when to brake. Maybe Schumi just forgot how to do this at that moment?
and on what basis do you know this to be "usually the accepted technique" because lets be honest here about a few things 1) you have never driven an f1 car 2) you have never spoken to an F1 driver about this 3) they are very, very loud. no driver, in any racing category, relies upon the sound of the guy in fronts engine as the basis of when to brake, rain or not. you can not use the other cars engine, even if you could hear it clearly, as a braking marker because when travelling at 100mph, things tend to happen rather quickly, an f1 drivers reactions are good but not good enough once committed to a corner/overtake to change their mind and do something else... you are looking for your "marker", assessing the level of grip (which will change on a lap by lap, corner to corner basis) and listening to our own car, not billy boys infront....i have said this before and i'll say it again, go racing, do a season karting then when you come here and make such ridiculous claims as to accepted techniques or what a driver is thinking/doing as the basis of an argument, it will at least be speaking from moderate experience...
pablo said:
mattikake said:
Pah. Usually the accepted technique for F1 drivers in wet weather driving is to listen to the engine of the guy infrton to know when to brake. Maybe Schumi just forgot how to do this at that moment?
and on what basis do you know this to be "usually the accepted technique" because lets be honest here about a few things 1) you have never driven an f1 car 2) you have never spoken to an F1 driver about this 3) they are very, very loud. no driver, in any racing category, relies upon the sound of the guy in fronts engine as the basis of when to brake, rain or not. you can not use the other cars engine, even if you could hear it clearly, as a braking marker because when travelling at 100mph, things tend to happen rather quickly, an f1 drivers reactions are good but not good enough once committed to a corner/overtake to change their mind and do something else... you are looking for your "marker", assessing the level of grip (which will change on a lap by lap, corner to corner basis) and listening to our own car, not billy boys infront....i have said this before and i'll say it again, go racing, do a season karting then when you come here and make such ridiculous claims as to accepted techniques or what a driver is thinking/doing as the basis of an argument, it will at least be speaking from moderate experience...
That sentence of his is awesome. I just love the opening part...
"...Usually the accepted technique for F1 drivers..."
...did he really just say that? Love it.
Ian Davidson said:
pablo said:
mattikake said:
Pah. Usually the accepted technique for F1 drivers in wet weather driving is to listen to the engine of the guy infrton to know when to brake. Maybe Schumi just forgot how to do this at that moment?
and on what basis do you know this to be "usually the accepted technique" because lets be honest here about a few things 1) you have never driven an f1 car 2) you have never spoken to an F1 driver about this 3) they are very, very loud. no driver, in any racing category, relies upon the sound of the guy in fronts engine as the basis of when to brake, rain or not. you can not use the other cars engine, even if you could hear it clearly, as a braking marker because when travelling at 100mph, things tend to happen rather quickly, an f1 drivers reactions are good but not good enough once committed to a corner/overtake to change their mind and do something else... you are looking for your "marker", assessing the level of grip (which will change on a lap by lap, corner to corner basis) and listening to our own car, not billy boys infront....i have said this before and i'll say it again, go racing, do a season karting then when you come here and make such ridiculous claims as to accepted techniques or what a driver is thinking/doing as the basis of an argument, it will at least be speaking from moderate experience...
That sentence of his is awesome. I just love the opening part...
"...Usually the accepted technique for F1 drivers..."
...did he really just say that? Love it.
VladD said:
llewop said:
VladD said:
In the opinion of Motorsport magazine, a Mr. J. Button of Frome, Dorset is the best ever driver in the wet.
I've heard that article being attributed before, when was it in the magazine and is it available online anywhere?ta
VladD said:
VladD said:
llewop said:
VladD said:
In the opinion of Motorsport magazine, a Mr. J. Button of Frome, Dorset is the best ever driver in the wet.
I've heard that article being attributed before, when was it in the magazine and is it available online anywhere?ta
at least that gives me something to aim at in locating it
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