RE: Trackday Trophy -The Race

[Club MSV]

7 Sevens said:

Out of interest do you know how many of the field had raced before? I originally thought the series was aimed at drivers moving from track days to racing. I assumed there would therefore be a number of modified road cars and was surprised to see a number of established race cars. Whilst you all appeared to have fun I was left wondering aside from the pit stop and chance for a driver change how it differed to some of the other established tin top series.

MGRacer said:

So is this a true trackdayer to racer series i.e. Novice or is it going to be a free for all. By free for all I mean, you will end up with seasoned racers turning up and that may not be in the spirit of the series? Personally I have thought of entering just for a laugh and have a two driver race but not sure how I would be welcomed having raced for the last 5 years.

Congratulations to everyone that competed and obviously to Jim for taking the win! A great drive by all! To answer a few queries posted by fellow PHers.....

This is a novice series - all cars (bar 1 entry) we're displaying a novice sticker (i.e. one of the two drivers had completed less than 6 races before) and 30 out of the 39 drivers taking part had never raced before!

We did allow a couple of more experienced teams to enter the first round but I think going forward we will enforce this more stringently and insist on at least one driver being a novice by adding this into the regulations. We simply vetted entries on a case by case basis for Brands.

We definitely do not want to stray from the underlying principles of the series which is to introduce new drivers (mostly from trackdays) into racing. But that doesn't stop a driver who has competed before from competing with a novice and introducing somebody new that way. "Road cars" (cages, extinguishers and cut offs switches still required) will always be welcome but the regulations will continue to evolve as the year goes on and we take on board what competitors want.

Watch this space and if anyone has any questions please ask!!

Thanks,

Alex Baker
Club MSV
Series Organiser

[andy97]

Club MSV said:

This is a novice series - all cars (bar 1 entry) we're displaying a novice sticker (i.e. one of the two drivers had completed less than 6 races before) and 30 out of the 39 drivers taking part had never raced before!

We did allow a couple of more experienced teams to enter the first round but I think going forward we will enforce this more stringently and insist on at least one driver being a novice by adding this into the regulations. We simply vetted entries on a case by case basis for Brands.

We definitely do not want to stray from the underlying principles of the series which is to introduce new drivers (mostly from trackdays) into racing. But that doesn't stop a driver who has competed before from competing with a novice and introducing somebody new that way. "Road cars" (cages, extinguishers and cut offs switches still required) will always be welcome but the regulations will continue to evolve as the year goes on and we take on board what competitors want.

Watch this space and if anyone has any questions please ask!!

Thanks,

Alex Baker
Club MSV
Series Organiser

Alex

Does this mean that once racers are deemed to not be novices anymore (after 6 signatures or after one season, or whatever has been decided??) they will not be eligible to enter any more??

Those guys who are, perhaps, more experienced, or who may be deemed ineligible to enter such a race could look a the various Classic Sports Car Club (CSCC) series which are very similar formats (ie 40 min races for one or 2 drivers, wonder where MSV got thei idea from!) and allow entries varying from MG s & E-Type Jags (in the "Swinging Sixties" series) to Honda Integras, MGZR, Alfa 33 & Ford XR2s etc (in "Tin Tops") to MR2, Porsche 944s & Jag XJS etc (in "Future Classics").

CSCC also have a 15 or 20 min sprint race at the end of the day for a Sports Vs Saloon Challenge that allows anyone who has previously raced in the day to get a second race very cheap (c £100).

Costs for the CSCC 40 min races are roughly comparable with the MSVR ones & we race at the same circuits pluse a few others. You could even race at Spa with us in a 1 hour race once you get a Nat A race licence, or at the Nurburgring in a 300Km race if you have a car older than 1981.

Have a look at the CSCC web site for more details: http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/

Or PM me.

[blaine54]

Firstly hello...1st post after a few years watching from the wings. I just wanted to add a bit as one of the drivers in the series. As a novice it's been a fantastic way of going racing and last weekend was a great experience all round.
Over the last 3 years I'd been tracking my 911 with MSV and others, but to be honest I really wanted to go racing but didn't know where to start. A few of us had a chat and decided as it was a new novice series & we'd used them before it seemed a good choice. My friend had a donor BMW which he wanted to upgrade and was happy to share the driving with. My other mates had bought an XJS, but just never got around to racing after passing their ARDS last year. We had a problem though, with the BMW we just didn't have the time to get her in a fit state to race. We resorted to option 2 & went looking for something already built. We set ourselves a car budget of 2k each & after only half an hour we found a MKII golf GTI 16v. Fully prepped to race in the GTI series, so more than good enough for 2 novices & easy to maintain. A kitted out race car, spare wheels and other bits & bobs that from new would have cost us so much more than what we paid (we came away spending 125 pound over budget each). Ideally I'd have liked a road going car, as life would be easier getting to and from the tracks in just the one vehicle. But it didn't happen that way, so at the moment we are relying on friends for a trailer & towing vehicle until we sort something out. I had a helmet, some boots & gloves from doing track days so just needed to get a race suit and a balaclava.
MSV run the ARDS tests so that was easy to organise and we met a few of the future competition on the day. Next we got our test session booked, which looking back I was more nervous about doing than the race day. One thing to note if you do get involved, test days require that you wear all you kit to practice, so go prepared. I would defo recommend doing this over a trackday before your first race! It gave us a chance to practice starts, over take either side and at that point was the most fun on track I'd ever had. This was also the point that I really new we'd made the right choice & this racing lark was for me. Everyone was so helpfull, our competition seemed a nice bunch and although there was a right mix of cars you could already see some friendly rivalry developing. We got a full brief on what to expect on race day to avoid suprises plus a chance for the cars to be looked over and weighed. This for me was one of the plus points for this series, as we felt pretty well prepared for the weekend to come after test day.
I'm not going to go over the race as it's been summed up really well in the thread. Well done to everyone who raced, it was a little bit tricky but from where I was sitting everyone drove well. I was loving the Golf & 888's are suprisingly good in the wet! Unfortunatley for us though we dnf'd thanks to a throttle cable coming un hooked at the pedal, but the fun I had in that 17 mins coming up from the back of the pack into the top 10 was worth every penny of the £3750 I've spent so far. I can't wait to Snett, looking forward to battling with our fellow 'racers' again and I so hope it rains again . If you see a black & white Golf no.54 at the track and want to find out a bit more, come and have a chat.

I highly recomend it!!!!

Neal

[MGRacer]

Club MSV said:

7 Sevens said:

Out of interest do you know how many of the field had raced before? I originally thought the series was aimed at drivers moving from track days to racing. I assumed there would therefore be a number of modified road cars and was surprised to see a number of established race cars. Whilst you all appeared to have fun I was left wondering aside from the pit stop and chance for a driver change how it differed to some of the other established tin top series.

MGRacer said:

So is this a true trackdayer to racer series i.e. Novice or is it going to be a free for all. By free for all I mean, you will end up with seasoned racers turning up and that may not be in the spirit of the series? Personally I have thought of entering just for a laugh and have a two driver race but not sure how I would be welcomed having raced for the last 5 years.

Congratulations to everyone that competed and obviously to Jim for taking the win! A great drive by all! To answer a few queries posted by fellow PHers.....

This is a novice series - all cars (bar 1 entry) we're displaying a novice sticker (i.e. one of the two drivers had completed less than 6 races before) and 30 out of the 39 drivers taking part had never raced before!

We did allow a couple of more experienced teams to enter the first round but I think going forward we will enforce this more stringently and insist on at least one driver being a novice by adding this into the regulations. We simply vetted entries on a case by case basis for Brands.

We definitely do not want to stray from the underlying principles of the series which is to introduce new drivers (mostly from trackdays) into racing. But that doesn't stop a driver who has competed before from competing with a novice and introducing somebody new that way. "Road cars" (cages, extinguishers and cut offs switches still required) will always be welcome but the regulations will continue to evolve as the year goes on and we take on board what competitors want.

Watch this space and if anyone has any questions please ask!!

Thanks,

Alex Baker
Club MSV
Series Organiser

Alex I think you are spot on, it does need policing or it will get out of control.

The only disappointing thing is that with a "sportscar" I am limited to either the championship I currently run in or finding entries for a rear wheel drive mid engine car which means I end up racing against things with serious power and being last.

The power to weight entries is a good one and the fact that it limits things to 200bhp per ton max and I could have entered a sportscar against all sorts. The fact that I could also race against friends who are now starting would have been good also but I do appreciate you want to keep this as a novice series.

CSCC wont let me in as I am not "Future Classic" enough for them - 1995 MGF?

[Clio22]

Well done Jim, maybe another 40 laps and we might have caught you !! Well done to all the MSV team and my fellow competitors it was a great day with expectations that were certainly exceeded.

See you all at Snetterton round 2 wet or dry !

[TU Tuning]

Anyone who can win a race at Brands in a monsoon, with no wipers in a tuned old school RWD BM with none of this modern aid crap is a bit of a hero in my eyes. Fair play mate

[Fishy Dave]

Brilliant write up and videos, Brands in torential rain is 'interesting'! It sounds like MSV have organised and supported this well.

I had my first seasons racing last year, it was the scariest thing I've ever done, and totally different from a trackday.

For interest, I raced at Brands in November, and had similar conditions in the second race - Video HERE

Same as the Ginetta driver early in the thread, I too have an open car with no screen or roof (Caterham 1400)! Not having any money for testing, the qualifying session was my first time on track here for some while, and never in the wet.

Cheers, Dave

[lrs777]

Amazing result given E30s don't handle in the dry let alone the wet ! Congratulations!
You are though i think (i am sure i've seen your name in some magazine as Nurburgring specialist) not a novice though?
I suppose that's always the thing with racing you can call a series what you like - the winning driver will always be a talent - novice racer on paper or not. I am pretty sure if you had been able to clone yourself you'd have gone a lot quicker in the Clio or Xsara.
(prepares for avalanche of RWD is better than FWD...)

[Kawasicki]

lrs777 said:

Amazing result given E30s don't handle in the dry let alone the wet ! Congratulations!
You are though i think (i am sure i've seen your name in some magazine as Nurburgring specialist) not a novice though?
I suppose that's always the thing with racing you can call a series what you like - the winning driver will always be a talent - novice racer on paper or not. I am pretty sure if you had been able to clone yourself you'd have gone a lot quicker in the Clio or Xsara.
(prepares for avalanche of RWD is better than FWD...)

E30s handle very well in both wet and dry, what on earth are you talking about? Where do people get this stuff from?

[waxaholic]

It's more like some drivers can not handle the e30.

[Club MSV]

andy97 said:

Alex
Does this mean that once racers are deemed to not be novices anymore (after 6 signatures or after one season, or whatever has been decided??) they will not be eligible to enter any more?

Hi Andy,

Yes that is correct. All cars must be elidgble to run with a novice sticker - i.e. one of the two drivers must have completed in less than 6 races before.

[Club MSV]

MGRacer said:

The fact that I could also race against friends who are now starting would have been good also but I do appreciate you want to keep this as a novice series.

Hi Mark,

Why don't you enter with one of your friends that is a novice?

[HereBeMonsters]

Club MSV said:

andy97 said:

Alex
Does this mean that once racers are deemed to not be novices anymore (after 6 signatures or after one season, or whatever has been decided??) they will not be eligible to enter any more?

Hi Andy,

Yes that is correct. All cars must be elidgble to run with a novice sticker - i.e. one of the two drivers must have completed in less than 6 races before.

So, in theory, two novice drivers who started at the beginning of the season won't be able to finish it?

[Club MSV]

HereBeMonsters said:

So, in theory, two novice drivers who started at the beginning of the season won't be able to finish it?

There are four rounds this season.

[90Right]

Jim any chance of a copy of those pics with you and i battling?? Also if you could send me the vid of the overtake just before we pitted that would be great!! Let me know when your going to be doing some practise days and ill try and do the same ones!

Cheers

[Tankslider]

No problem mate. Abroad at the moment so please drop me an email through my PH profile and I'll be able to respond

[lrs777]

Kawasicki said:

lrs777 said:

Amazing result given E30s don't handle in the dry let alone the wet ! Congratulations!
You are though i think (i am sure i've seen your name in some magazine as Nurburgring specialist) not a novice though?
I suppose that's always the thing with racing you can call a series what you like - the winning driver will always be a talent - novice racer on paper or not. I am pretty sure if you had been able to clone yourself you'd have gone a lot quicker in the Clio or Xsara.
(prepares for avalanche of RWD is better than FWD...)

E30s handle very well in both wet and dry, what on earth are you talking about? Where do people get this stuff from?

compared to what? a morris marina?

[lrs777]

waxaholic said:

It's more like some drivers can not handle the e30.

you've hit the nail on the head. Due to the crappy rear suspension design the awful toe changes catch out even experienced racers.

[Kawasicki]

lrs777 said:

waxaholic said:

It's more like some drivers can not handle the e30.

you've hit the nail on the head. Due to the crappy rear suspension design the awful toe changes catch out even experienced racers.

Hilarious. Would that be the same crappy 15 degree trailing arms as found in the E30 M3?

Awful toe changes? The awful toe changes are what makes the E30 so adjustable at the limit. They are such a piece of piss to drive at the limit, precisely because of those "awful" toe changes.

Show me an experienced racer who gets caught out by an E30 and I'll show you an experienced crap driver.

Like I said, where do people get this stuff from? You don't actually believe what the common (usually car magazine derived) perception of various cars is.

[lrs777]

so you are saying you'd rather have for example e30 rear end than a decent live axle?
Do you seriously believe toe changes are beneficial on either axle?
Why would racers spend so much time ironing out bump and roll steer if it was so good?

and no I don't rate the E30 M3 either... but at least they made the best of a bad set up.
This is off topic - I was trying to compliment the winner as nobody but an experienced driver would have been able to achieve such a feat. If he'd driven a modern FWD hatch it would have been a lot less impressive !