RE: Trackday Trophy -The Race
Discussion
There is no such thing as a perfect suspension, but to say that the E30 has poor handling is plainly wrong.
On a bumpy track I would take well developed semi trailing arm over well developed live axle for example.
It's pretty much impossible to negate all geometry influenced toe and camber changes on a road car based racing car, so you may as well have something that is simple and predictable, which the E30 rear suspension is.
On a bumpy track I would take well developed semi trailing arm over well developed live axle for example.
It's pretty much impossible to negate all geometry influenced toe and camber changes on a road car based racing car, so you may as well have something that is simple and predictable, which the E30 rear suspension is.
Kawasicki said:
There is no such thing as a perfect suspension, but to say that the E30 has poor handling is plainly wrong.
On a bumpy track I would take well developed semi trailing arm over well developed live axle for example.
It's pretty much impossible to negate all geometry influenced toe and camber changes on a road car based racing car, so you may as well have something that is simple and predictable, which the E30 rear suspension is.
That is the whole point it is NOT predictable - why do you think they changed the trailing arm angle on the MSeries to reduce the toe change (even with loss of negative camber)On a bumpy track I would take well developed semi trailing arm over well developed live axle for example.
It's pretty much impossible to negate all geometry influenced toe and camber changes on a road car based racing car, so you may as well have something that is simple and predictable, which the E30 rear suspension is.
The live axles (assuming 5 link) only real foible is excess unsprung weight. You only have to look at the prowess of Mk2 on the rally stages to know that bumps don't upset a proper 5 link set up.
E30s Excessive rear toe-in due to roll steer can cause corner exit oversteer the very thing you don't want in a RWD car (and it would be made worse by bumps).This is what makes them a handful. You seem intent on making the E30 out to be a good handler when the point of my comment was to praise the clearly high skill levels of the winner.
Our full race report is now online at: http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/news/1st-round-rac...
Edited by Club MSV on Thursday 8th April 16:10
lrs777 said:
Kawasicki said:
There is no such thing as a perfect suspension, but to say that the E30 has poor handling is plainly wrong.
On a bumpy track I would take well developed semi trailing arm over well developed live axle for example.
It's pretty much impossible to negate all geometry influenced toe and camber changes on a road car based racing car, so you may as well have something that is simple and predictable, which the E30 rear suspension is.
That is the whole point it is NOT predictable - why do you think they changed the trailing arm angle on the MSeries to reduce the toe change (even with loss of negative camber)On a bumpy track I would take well developed semi trailing arm over well developed live axle for example.
It's pretty much impossible to negate all geometry influenced toe and camber changes on a road car based racing car, so you may as well have something that is simple and predictable, which the E30 rear suspension is.
The live axles (assuming 5 link) only real foible is excess unsprung weight. You only have to look at the prowess of Mk2 on the rally stages to know that bumps don't upset a proper 5 link set up.
E30s Excessive rear toe-in due to roll steer can cause corner exit oversteer the very thing you don't want in a RWD car (and it would be made worse by bumps).This is what makes them a handful. You seem intent on making the E30 out to be a good handler when the point of my comment was to praise the clearly high skill levels of the winner.
Please explain how rear toe in can cause corner exit oversteer? This is new to me. Plus, I'm pretty sure all road going M3s have the same 15 degree semi trailing angle as the rest of the E30 range. Why is it so difficult to believe that an E30 is an agile, predictable, car?
What a race! I thoroughly enjoyed reading that report 
. Brings me back to when I was racing, although I never won a race unfortunately. Great mix of cars too. It was similar in a way to the Classic GRP 1 Touring Cars, where at 1 extreme you had FWD Mk1 Golfs, Fiestas, R5 Turbos, and the other extreme huge RWD V8 Rover SD1s and Capris all on the same track!
How long have you been racing btw?
. Brings me back to when I was racing, although I never won a race unfortunately. Great mix of cars too. It was similar in a way to the Classic GRP 1 Touring Cars, where at 1 extreme you had FWD Mk1 Golfs, Fiestas, R5 Turbos, and the other extreme huge RWD V8 Rover SD1s and Capris all on the same track!How long have you been racing btw?
Trackstar64 said:
Would Iris and Kwacker please please go have your row somewhere else. This thread is about the Trackday Trophy series and related first time racing experiences.
here here. He just can't take a point! (excessive toe in on the rear causes too much scrub and the tyre loses grip on the limit usually the exit of a bend)lrs777 said:
Trackstar64 said:
Would Iris and Kwacker please please go have your row somewhere else. This thread is about the Trackday Trophy series and related first time racing experiences.
here here. He just can't take a point! (excessive toe in on the rear causes too much scrub and the tyre loses grip on the limit usually the exit of a bend)Seriously though, that's the first time I have heard of corner exit oversteer being caused by too much scrub.
Are you saying that the rear axle slides because it gets more vertical load and more steer towards the inside of the bend. Strange.
The effect of scrub angle change due to power on on the already loaded outside wheel will be both tiny and in the wrong direction. What do you think is the effect of trying to accelerate an already cornering car with the rear tyres?
slimboyfat said:
just been on the website for the MSV trackday trophy, looks as if there is another class now on there. 'Class D' - up to 125bhp/ton.
Had a look in the news section an couldn't see anything so I assume this is still all go for next race?
Hi Matt - yes still all go. Regulations are due to be updated next week with the new class included!Had a look in the news section an couldn't see anything so I assume this is still all go for next race?
Thanks,
Alex
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