Fantastico and Scorchio

[Mojocvh]

In that EVO video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32WfeE-XJxY

from 2:30 onwards as the car blasts past with the echos reverberating from the the empty stands and with the mist hanging the air,
just how evocative is that?

I can't think I have seen an image/video that conveys such a dose of sheer car majesty as that.

[tertius]

youbeenspied said:

Stefan Bellof in a porsche 959 did it in 6:11

Was a 956, mentioned earlier in the thread. Also that really was indubitably a race car.

[havoc]

tertius said:

youbeenspied said:

Stefan Bellof in a porsche 959 did it in 6:11

Was a 956, mentioned earlier in the thread. Also that really was indubitably a race car.

Yet bizarrely road legal as well, unlike the 599XX and Zonda-R, which are evolved from road-cars but legally-speaking aren't.

[frit]

I happened to be present the day before when they were trying for the record, only just saw on PH that they succeeded the day we left. The first lap they went for he ended up turning round halfway up the straight and coming back because of a problem. We watched as men fiddled with laptops etc. then one of them took the air feed bit off the top of the inlet and gave it to a helper while he investigated further. I happened to look at the bloke holding the said removed piece as he looked inside and removed rather embarrassingly a bit of brown paper, presumably put in there to stop st falling in on transit, which they had forgotten to remove.
Have a few vids which i might get round to putting on youtube.

[GC8]

Caractacus said:

R66STU said:

What is the quickest time EVER round the ring in any vehicle ? car/bike/ roadlegal or not ?

The 6.11 mentioned, above, I think. Was it in the 956 or the 962 though?

It was a 956. SB died before the 962 was adopted/raced in Europe.

His record was set on a slightly longer Nordschleife too...

Apologies if these points have been raised beyond your post.

[GC8]

woof said:

That's not a road car - it's a bloody race car. Look at the front splitter and rear diffuser !!
I don't care what they say. True road car records are set in cars like the Corvette ZR1 or the Maserati MC12

The MC12 thats unbelievably rare and essentially a Ferrari Enzo? Hardly a road car, by your own definition...

[tertius]

GC8 said:

Caractacus said:

R66STU said:

What is the quickest time EVER round the ring in any vehicle ? car/bike/ roadlegal or not ?

The 6.11 mentioned, above, I think. Was it in the 956 or the 962 though?

It was a 956. SB died before the 962 was adopted/raced in Europe.

His record was set on a slightly longer Nordschleife too...

Apologies if these points have been raised beyond your post.

He was certainly driving a 956 when he set the Nordschleife record, however, I thought Bellof died in the year the 962 was introduced (1985), indeed I think the accident at Spa that led to his death was actually between a 956 and a 962.

[GC8]

Youre absolutely correct. JI was still driving for Rothmans Porsche and was in a 962, and SB was driving a privately entered 956. For some reason I was under the impression that it was a 956-956 accident, with the 962 introduced (in Europe) at the end of the season, its development hurried up as a result of that crash in particular.

[tertius]

Though it seems wrong to use that smiley when talking about such a tragedy.

[youbeenspied]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO7nlYzbPxY

Stefan Bellof video

[GC8]

Derek Bell wasnt a slouch and Stefan Bellof absolutely shoots past him (all Rothmans works 956s) on 'In-car 956'. To be noticably quicker at that level is extremely rare, and I suppose that it was certain to end as it did...

[mainaman]

tertius said:

pagani1 said:

To all the Radical supporters just how is a Radical like a road car. Just a tin can with a hole for the driver. The Pagani is based on a real true road car you can own and although beauty is subjective Radical is plug ugly compared to any Zonda.

Firstly let me say that I think *ALL* these records and cars are fantastic, the world would be a much poorer place if we did not have manufacturers like Pagani and Ferrari and Porsche and Radical putting their money where their mouths are ... big thumbs up from me.

Secondly I'm not particularly a fan of the Radical and have no desire to own one whereas I think the Zonda is utterly gorgeous, certainly a car for the fantasy garage that I will never get to own ...

None of these extraordinary and wonderful cars are really road usable compared even to a GT3RS or a Caterham R500.

Having said that, as I understand the situation ...

1. this particular car is not road legal - the Radical was
2. this particular car was not driven to/from the circuit - the Radical was
3. this particular car was not on road legal tyres - the Radical was
4. this particular car is approximately ten times the price of the Radical
5. this particular car is not even available to buy - the Radical is
6. this particular car was 1 second (~0.25%) quicker than the Radical

For these reasons the Radical is the more impressive achievement in my opinion.

No doubt the Radical is awesome road legal track weapon,but there is more to it...

1.the Radical doesn't have a roof-the Pagani has
2.the Radical sports a steel spaceframe and two Suzuki bike engines forming its V8-the Pagani has state of the art carbon-titanium monocoque and one of the most powerful NA V12s ever
3.the Radical's engine needs a rebuild more often than the Pagani's despite the road-legal status
4.if only fifteen Radicals were made it would cost a lot more even without any upgrades

Both cars are the ultimate showcases of their respective design ethos,but the ultimate Nordschleife supercar with roof,stereo and road car engine has to be the Gumpert...

[nadirv8]

s3fella said:

Is it as quick as an Ultima?

That I'd love to know!

[tertius]

mainaman said:

tertius said:

pagani1 said:

To all the Radical supporters just how is a Radical like a road car. Just a tin can with a hole for the driver. The Pagani is based on a real true road car you can own and although beauty is subjective Radical is plug ugly compared to any Zonda.

Firstly let me say that I think *ALL* these records and cars are fantastic, the world would be a much poorer place if we did not have manufacturers like Pagani and Ferrari and Porsche and Radical putting their money where their mouths are ... big thumbs up from me.

Secondly I'm not particularly a fan of the Radical and have no desire to own one whereas I think the Zonda is utterly gorgeous, certainly a car for the fantasy garage that I will never get to own ...

None of these extraordinary and wonderful cars are really road usable compared even to a GT3RS or a Caterham R500.

Having said that, as I understand the situation ...

1. this particular car is not road legal - the Radical was
2. this particular car was not driven to/from the circuit - the Radical was
3. this particular car was not on road legal tyres - the Radical was
4. this particular car is approximately ten times the price of the Radical
5. this particular car is not even available to buy - the Radical is
6. this particular car was 1 second (~0.25%) quicker than the Radical

For these reasons the Radical is the more impressive achievement in my opinion.

No doubt the Radical is awesome road legal track weapon,but there is more to it...

1.the Radical doesn't have a roof-the Pagani has
2.the Radical sports a steel spaceframe and two Suzuki bike engines forming its V8-the Pagani has state of the art carbon-titanium monocoque and one of the most powerful NA V12s ever
3.the Radical's engine needs a rebuild more often than the Pagani's despite the road-legal status
4.if only fifteen Radicals were made it would cost a lot more even without any upgrades

Both cars are the ultimate showcases of their respective design ethos,but the ultimate Nordschleife supercar with roof,stereo and road car engine has to be the Gumpert...

I don't disagree with anything you say, and the Pagani is undoubtedly the superior and more technologically advanced car (for ten times the price it flamin' well ought to be), but this thread was about 'ring times and I was explaining why I thought the time of the Radical was more impressive than that of the Zonda. I was not claiming the Radical was the better car in any way. Except maybe in terms of laptime per pound.

I'd take the Zonda any day ...

[jellison]

Pointless.

[big_rob_sydney]

Road registered seems to mean so much to some people, wow.

The reality is, that most people will never own ANY of these cars. And even if they did, the chances of using them as their every day beatup commuter car would be slim at best.

So to me the relevance of "road registered" is tenous at best.

I say if you want to blast around the track in something road based, theres no discernable difference. Consider this: how many people buy road registered cars, and then proceed to modify them beyond allowable limits? Have a look at the number of "road registered" cars that fail noise regs at various track days. These things started life as a "normal" road car, got modified, and is, to all intents and purposes, now the same as this car.

I suspect pretty much every time attack round would see this type of "road registered" car littering the paddock.

So whats the big deal, and why the agro?

For my part, I love whats been achieved here. Not because they stick two fingers up at any competing marque, but just for the advancement of cars in general.

[Neil H]

Gentleman Geoff said:

Fast, yes.

But . . . does nobody else think this looks kinda ugly? Bits sticking off it all over the place!

Racecar chic.

I love it, and would have one in a flash if I had the means.

[Neil H]

Papa Hotel said:

I think I'm in the "mildly impressed" camp, but also in the "so fking what?" camp. Yeah, it's all very impressive.... but almost completely irrelevant to anything other than making the PR guy's job a bit easier. Well done and all that, but I don't give a st.

Yes indeed, how completely pointless for a racing car to be setting lap records around one of the most famous and demanding circuits in the world.

They should just stay at home and rev it really hard in the garage. Maybe fit some neons to it.

[MMC Andy]

Saw this very car at the Motorsport Expo Show in Modena last week - believe me the photo doesn't do it justice! Up close its a remarkable good looking car - there must be someone out there who would like to run one in Britcar!

[kiteless]

sprinter1050 said:

Nearly sounds as awesome as Mike Hailwoods's Honda RC166 250 6 pot .

Maybe not quite as 'violent' sounding

Correct