Who Misses the 1990's BTCC? Long Post Warning ;)
Discussion
david_b said:
RatLad said:
The Ford Mondeo ran for the longest period in BTCC, racing between 1993 to 2000, only clinching a title in it’s last year. The Mondeo’s debut was less than remarkable after opting to go for a RWD layout, based on the 4WD model that was due for production. (The road-going Mondeo was not formally released at this point) Ford had to carry a weight penalty for the RWD layout and due to the complexity of transferring power from a transverse engine to the rear wheels; they soon switched to FWD as the car was not competitive.
Don't think the RWD Mondeo actually raced, Ford/Rouse started that season late after swapping back to FWD.Vauxhall also tried the same thing a few years before - they raced a RWD, 4WD and the regular FWD Cavalier over the course of the season. The RWD and 4WD versions didn't last very long... That was in the very early days of the 2-litre formula when the teams were still dealing with the challenges of making a 300hp FWD racing car work properly, which seems quite odd nowadays!
Charlie Cox did experiment with a 4x4 Mondeo 5 door in 1995 after his car was reshelled following his massive Thruxton crash, but not sure if he ever raced it in that configuration.
John Cleland said the RWD Cavalier was the best balanced car he had ever driven, but it simply lost too much power in the drivetrain to make it as a frontline BTCC car.
I always wanted a Cavalier GSi when I was growing up, because of the Cleland/BTCC connection. Wouldn't mind a GSi or Turbo 4x4 in this weather....
IainW said:
That's right. The Mondeo did the pre-season testing, before Andy Rouse decided it was losing too much power through the drivetrain and the weight penalties for RWD cancelled out any positives the car had. They turned up partway through the season at Pembrey with the FWD car, where Rouse was battered out of the race in a sort of initiation ceremony. Paul Radisich taking a quiet 8th place, then went on an amazing run and came away with third in the points and the world title at Monza by the end of 1993.
Indeed, it was amazing that they achieved so much that year having been so late to enter. I was at the first round at Silverstone in '93 and I'm sure I remember that there were a couple of Mondeos actually there in the garages, but just for show as they "weren't quite ready". They then ended up taking way longer than they were suggesting at that point to actually get into a race-ready state and make the grid half way through the season...brierleys said:
What I miss about it was that there was a decent range of manufactures. The last BTCC race I went to a couple of years ago, there were two manufacturers (I think) and the rest had quite old cars. There was even a Rover in the pack, several years after they went out of business. To me, it looked more like club racing.
I guess WTC has possibly taken over from where BTCC was seen as a challenge for global manufactures. I've only seen a little WTC on the TV and it looked fairly dull. I think it might have been the tracks. Not a patch on Knockhill or Thruxton.
With regards to manafactures we will never see the level off manafacture support again due to it not being worthwhile and too expensive. The btcc has always been the best touring car series in the world and it been as strong and with good races since the super 2000 and btc cars, the mg (not rover) that were raced after the company went bust for 3 more years under wsr and jason hughes team and were very competitive and the older cars are still competitve. The last race of 2009 was the best race ive seen so the raceing is still up there with the old super toures. With the new rules it will allow new cars to enter and already have new audi, toyota and the new ford so there is intrest in the series its not like wtcc or any similar champonships have manafactures in great number just the way the times have gone. I guess WTC has possibly taken over from where BTCC was seen as a challenge for global manufactures. I've only seen a little WTC on the TV and it looked fairly dull. I think it might have been the tracks. Not a patch on Knockhill or Thruxton.
I wish people would stop slagging off the btcc it doesnt do the series any good, so if more people supported it more manafactures would see the interest and join.
Interesting and also great reading the glory days of manufacturers endorsing racing/win on Sunday sell on Monday ethos.
My dad owned Audis since the Quattro when I was nipper. He brought an A4 as soon is it came out and from then on he/we were invited to loads of things like free BTCC tickets, motorsport promo vids, Audi track days, advanced driving tuition, tickets when Biela & BTCC A4 visiting the local dealearship, magazines.
This was when I was in puberty and getting really into motor sport and I began really appreciating motorsport history.
I've been a fan of Audi since. It has special place in my heart even if I don't own an Audi road car.
Even if I've owned Peugeots in the past it tore my heart in half as I secretly wanted the Pugs to break the Audi's winning streak in Le Mans!
My dad owned Audis since the Quattro when I was nipper. He brought an A4 as soon is it came out and from then on he/we were invited to loads of things like free BTCC tickets, motorsport promo vids, Audi track days, advanced driving tuition, tickets when Biela & BTCC A4 visiting the local dealearship, magazines.
This was when I was in puberty and getting really into motor sport and I began really appreciating motorsport history.
I've been a fan of Audi since. It has special place in my heart even if I don't own an Audi road car.
Even if I've owned Peugeots in the past it tore my heart in half as I secretly wanted the Pugs to break the Audi's winning streak in Le Mans!
IainW said:
david_b said:
RatLad said:
The Ford Mondeo ran for the longest period in BTCC, racing between 1993 to 2000, only clinching a title in it’s last year. The Mondeo’s debut was less than remarkable after opting to go for a RWD layout, based on the 4WD model that was due for production. (The road-going Mondeo was not formally released at this point) Ford had to carry a weight penalty for the RWD layout and due to the complexity of transferring power from a transverse engine to the rear wheels; they soon switched to FWD as the car was not competitive.
Don't think the RWD Mondeo actually raced, Ford/Rouse started that season late after swapping back to FWD.Vauxhall also tried the same thing a few years before - they raced a RWD, 4WD and the regular FWD Cavalier over the course of the season. The RWD and 4WD versions didn't last very long... That was in the very early days of the 2-litre formula when the teams were still dealing with the challenges of making a 300hp FWD racing car work properly, which seems quite odd nowadays!
Charlie Cox did experiment with a 4x4 Mondeo 5 door in 1995 after his car was reshelled following his massive Thruxton crash, but not sure if he ever raced it in that configuration.
John Cleland said the RWD Cavalier was the best balanced car he had ever driven, but it simply lost too much power in the drivetrain to make it as a frontline BTCC car.
I always wanted a Cavalier GSi when I was growing up, because of the Cleland/BTCC connection. Wouldn't mind a GSi or Turbo 4x4 in this weather....
Happy memories! We attended virtually every BTCC round at Oulton Park from the end of the Group A days (probably 1989) through to 2000. They used to come to Oulton twice a year and there was always a cracking atmosphere. My dad bought his first BMW in 1993 and it was a big deal to him, having wanted a straight-6 engined car for years. I recall standing at Dentons as Smokin' Jo belted down to Cascades in the Schnitzer car on the first lap. Those BMWs always sounded fantastic and Schnitzer seemed somehow exotic compared to the UK teams. Maybe because the boss was sat on the pitwall rather than in prison, I don't know...
After the Super Touring days, we saw BTCC support Champ Car at Brands Hatch in 2003 and I hadn't seen it again until 2009 when I went to Oulton Park in glorious sunshine. It was a good day out and the three race format works well. Must say that James Thmpson and Colin Turkington were just magnificent, it's such a shame WSR couldn't get together the funding for CT to defend his title - he is a real class act and doesn't seem to resort to the Plato/Neal tactics. Of course a bit of argy-bargy is nothing new - Cleland and Soper at Silverstone in 1992 springs to mind.
And I'm sure you saloon fans will already have it in the diary, but the Italian Superstars championship at Donington in June 2011 is not to be missed. Best mix of proper cars, proper racing and star drivers in European touring cars in my opinion.
After the Super Touring days, we saw BTCC support Champ Car at Brands Hatch in 2003 and I hadn't seen it again until 2009 when I went to Oulton Park in glorious sunshine. It was a good day out and the three race format works well. Must say that James Thmpson and Colin Turkington were just magnificent, it's such a shame WSR couldn't get together the funding for CT to defend his title - he is a real class act and doesn't seem to resort to the Plato/Neal tactics. Of course a bit of argy-bargy is nothing new - Cleland and Soper at Silverstone in 1992 springs to mind.
And I'm sure you saloon fans will already have it in the diary, but the Italian Superstars championship at Donington in June 2011 is not to be missed. Best mix of proper cars, proper racing and star drivers in European touring cars in my opinion.
hornet said:
Always thought the Cavalier was the best looking touring car. Just seems so nicely proportioned.
Edited by hornet on Friday 24th December 16:58
I have great memories of that Tarquini crash on the previous pages. That was my first ever BTCC event at Knockhill in 1994. I was a frequent spectator from 2001-2009 allover the UK, but really wish I'd been able to see the BTCC regularly in the 1990s, rather than my single meeting every year.
excellent thread - it was a great time for touring cars.
We travelled up from Hampshire to as many races as we could for a few years,
Silverstone was easy as my parents lived in Brackley
so was Thruxton - not much more than an hour up the road - except the Volvo & Alfa year when the traffic was horrendous! (I think that was maybe also the 'Ice Station Thruxton' year)
Brands Hatch was always fun, especially when we were staying in the same hotel as many of the teams - for instance when Alfa had Murray Walker as a guest and he was getting the kids that were after his autograph to go to Tarquini and Warwick to get theirs too.
Donnington was good too - I remember one of the 'world cup' or whatever it was with an amazing amount of cars on the circuit from all the european touring car championships.
We got to Oulton quite a few times and to Snetterton once, but never to Knockhill or Croft that joined towards the end of the time we were going regularly.
Alan Gow really had the package sorted out then - great cars that were largely evenly matched, great drivers - including many 'characters' Cleland, Harvey, Smokin' Jo, Spiderman.... As has been said - unfortuantely it got too expensive as the boundaries got pushed.
We travelled up from Hampshire to as many races as we could for a few years,
Silverstone was easy as my parents lived in Brackley
so was Thruxton - not much more than an hour up the road - except the Volvo & Alfa year when the traffic was horrendous! (I think that was maybe also the 'Ice Station Thruxton' year)
Brands Hatch was always fun, especially when we were staying in the same hotel as many of the teams - for instance when Alfa had Murray Walker as a guest and he was getting the kids that were after his autograph to go to Tarquini and Warwick to get theirs too.
Donnington was good too - I remember one of the 'world cup' or whatever it was with an amazing amount of cars on the circuit from all the european touring car championships.
We got to Oulton quite a few times and to Snetterton once, but never to Knockhill or Croft that joined towards the end of the time we were going regularly.
Alan Gow really had the package sorted out then - great cars that were largely evenly matched, great drivers - including many 'characters' Cleland, Harvey, Smokin' Jo, Spiderman.... As has been said - unfortuantely it got too expensive as the boundaries got pushed.
Goddamnit why did I have to see and read this thread?
I'd give anything to go back to the 90's in general, especially with motorsport being so good back then.
I was born in 1990, so had the whole decade to grow up and adore everything, the BTCC was one of my favourite things in the world back then, and I eventually got to see it live back in '99 at Oulton Park. Watching Rydell, Menu, Muller, Radisich, Reid, Aiello and the likes fly from Knickerbrook up Clay Hill was just awe-inspiring as a nine year old. There was something about the way Supertouring cars looked and sounded that was so bloody right, especially the A4 and S40 (was a huge Rydell fan).
I wish the remaining cars would get restored and then put into a historic(ish) series of some kind, surely there's enthusiasm for such a thing? Not just BTCC either, WRC, BPR GT/FIA GT, F1, CART and so on were so, so much better back then, and the cars have gotta be out there somewhere, just waiting to be driven again. If only I had the dosh...
Everyone should check out the Super Touring register as well ( http://www.supertouringregister.com/ ), it's a brilliant resource and I was over the moon when I found it.
I'd give anything to go back to the 90's in general, especially with motorsport being so good back then.
I was born in 1990, so had the whole decade to grow up and adore everything, the BTCC was one of my favourite things in the world back then, and I eventually got to see it live back in '99 at Oulton Park. Watching Rydell, Menu, Muller, Radisich, Reid, Aiello and the likes fly from Knickerbrook up Clay Hill was just awe-inspiring as a nine year old. There was something about the way Supertouring cars looked and sounded that was so bloody right, especially the A4 and S40 (was a huge Rydell fan).
I wish the remaining cars would get restored and then put into a historic(ish) series of some kind, surely there's enthusiasm for such a thing? Not just BTCC either, WRC, BPR GT/FIA GT, F1, CART and so on were so, so much better back then, and the cars have gotta be out there somewhere, just waiting to be driven again. If only I had the dosh...
Everyone should check out the Super Touring register as well ( http://www.supertouringregister.com/ ), it's a brilliant resource and I was over the moon when I found it.
Edited by F1GTRUeno on Sunday 26th December 00:06
Great post. It was Alain Menu and his Laguna that started my love of racing back in 1997, probably because I was young, it was bright yellow with blue wheels and winning. Although I never liked the '98 car at that age (4/5), it wasn't winning as much and it had a boring (in my young mind) dark green livery 
The first year i watched the BTCC was 1992 and, as kids often do, I was attracted to the car that won. Took me 12 years to get my own e36 coupe after that and I never have quite got round to painting it mint green!
The other teams I liked were the Vauxhall's (my Dad had a Cavalier, then Vectra company cars) and the Volvo 850's particularly in estate guise. I remember stood at the old Copse corner at Silverstone in the pissing rain watching them race (possibly in saloon form by then).
The other teams I liked were the Vauxhall's (my Dad had a Cavalier, then Vectra company cars) and the Volvo 850's particularly in estate guise. I remember stood at the old Copse corner at Silverstone in the pissing rain watching them race (possibly in saloon form by then).
It's interesting reading this thread and seeing how many people were so influenced by the cars that the really wanted to go and get one. Granted I've still not managed to get around to an Alfa 155, but it seems plenty of people were interested enough to either go and get a BMW, Alfa or whatever.
I wonder if todays BTCC cars inspire the same feelings of *needing* to own one ?
As an impressionable 13 year old and all out BTCC geek, I managed to talk my parents into buying a Laguna RT Sport at the end of '97, complete with "Williams Renault 1997 BTCC Champions" rear window sticker. Slow as it was, I loved that car, ended up learning to drive in it too.
Was a big Cleland/Chavalier fan, mainly because of the Scottish link. The Cavvies just looked so right as a super tourer.
Was a big Cleland/Chavalier fan, mainly because of the Scottish link. The Cavvies just looked so right as a super tourer.
Edited by samvia on Sunday 26th December 16:28
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