RE: Nürburgring Tourist Laps: The Future
Discussion
HereBeMonsters said:
How long can these things record for? Most people's first laps are around 15 mins, even in a decent car.
Hours without too much trouble.My first lap was 11:25.6. In a 1986 BMW 316 with as it turns out two knackered front shocks and a disconnected front ARB. I knew something was up when I had to "feed the wheel" to keep it on the Karousel...
Max_Torque said:
Gadgeroonie said:
Change of underpants at 2.11 for the Caterham driver........... ;-)While I know that this is just another way for the operators to try and claw some more money it is better than the existing outright ban on video cameras. So you pay your money, do your lap(s?) and then they view the footage to check its "clean" and you get it on a DVD or whatever, that all sounds good so far but what if it isn't clean? If someone stacks it on-camera, and its nothing to do with you do you get your money back? Sadly I suspect not, something tells me you'll pay to hire the camera and then if the footage is ok you'll pay a further fee to get a copy of it.
motor mad said:
lankyarcher said:
andrewrob said:
Obviously not all of these are tourist days but you get the idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz6EPHXjgTI
There are some amazingly over ambitious entry speed attempted in that video!!! (red civic type r & the astra van)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz6EPHXjgTI
k" -> Massive lift off -> not catching it first time = Goodnight irene..... Edited by lankyarcher on Wednesday 19th January 16:57
KaraK said:
While I know that this is just another way for the operators to try and claw some more money it is better than the existing outright ban on video cameras. So you pay your money, do your lap(s?) and then they view the footage to check its "clean" and you get it on a DVD or whatever, that all sounds good so far but what if it isn't clean? If someone stacks it on-camera, and its nothing to do with you do you get your money back? Sadly I suspect not, something tells me you'll pay to hire the camera and then if the footage is ok you'll pay a further fee to get a copy of it.
You have to wonder what legality the ban on video footage has - this is still a PUBLIC toll road, right?
Motorrad said:
EVLXGE said:
Motorground said:
This is excellent news! the lack of being able to use a videocamera on a tourist day has been a big downer for many! Thank you Nurburgring!!
Excellent lets celebrate the fact they have found another way to 'tax' their visitors. No doubt you'll have to pay using the 'ring card'. Not log before you have to swipe that bloody card to take a dump...ks, 'let's celebrate the chance to be ripped off some more- yay!'.This is about control as well as revenue generation, what I used to like about the Nurburgring was the sense of freedom. Now sadly gone forever.
Just be glad the place is still there to be used as it is. It could be very different in ten years from now if the greenies get their way.
Who really cares if they rent video cams? You don't have to take up their offer. In fact I'd imagine many will keep to bullet cams, etc...
EVLXGE said:
Motorground said:
This is excellent news! the lack of being able to use a videocamera on a tourist day has been a big downer for many! Thank you Nurburgring!!
Excellent lets celebrate the fact they have found another way to 'tax' their visitors. No doubt you'll have to pay using the 'ring card'. Not log before you have to swipe that bloody card to take a dump...Caractacus said:
Motorrad said:
EVLXGE said:
Motorground said:
This is excellent news! the lack of being able to use a videocamera on a tourist day has been a big downer for many! Thank you Nurburgring!!
Excellent lets celebrate the fact they have found another way to 'tax' their visitors. No doubt you'll have to pay using the 'ring card'. Not log before you have to swipe that bloody card to take a dump...ks, 'let's celebrate the chance to be ripped off some more- yay!'.This is about control as well as revenue generation, what I used to like about the Nurburgring was the sense of freedom. Now sadly gone forever.
Just be glad the place is still there to be used as it is. It could be very different in ten years from now if the greenies get their way.
Who really cares if they rent video cams? You don't have to take up their offer. In fact I'd imagine many will keep to bullet cams, etc...
andrewrob said:
Obviously not all of these are tourist days but you get the idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz6EPHXjgTI
As an aside, I think everyone that wants to drive on the 'ring for the first time should be shown this footage.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz6EPHXjgTI
Not possible, I know, but it may help some folk cope with the red mist on their first visit.
This is all, frankly, irrelevent to UK drivers in UK registered cars. The fact of the matter is, there are NO insurance companies out there - short of incredibly specialist brokers for higher end cars - that will cover driving on TF. They are all in breach of European law regarding the exclusion of what has been said in court to be a public road, but thier right to reclaim has also been allowed through the courts. If you are driving 99.9% of the cars that lap at the ring, you are almost certainly uninsured - I know of people with newer TVRs and Porsche GT3s that have cover currently, but even this is in doubt.
This is the key issue for brits, not camera useage. I am a diehard 'ring fan, I decided to go every year from the first trip, but cannot do so anymore with my own car for insurance reasons. Its a real disgrace, but I am afriad it is reality. The vast majority of UK registered cars lapping are completely uninsured - they are liable for any damage to the track/ other vehicles/ people. Chancers may think its fine, but you could very easily be faced with a bill that'll bankrupt you - how many of us could take the hit of say a GT2RS being written off?? TF is no-longer an option. Simple as that. UK insurers are to blame.
This is the key issue for brits, not camera useage. I am a diehard 'ring fan, I decided to go every year from the first trip, but cannot do so anymore with my own car for insurance reasons. Its a real disgrace, but I am afriad it is reality. The vast majority of UK registered cars lapping are completely uninsured - they are liable for any damage to the track/ other vehicles/ people. Chancers may think its fine, but you could very easily be faced with a bill that'll bankrupt you - how many of us could take the hit of say a GT2RS being written off?? TF is no-longer an option. Simple as that. UK insurers are to blame.
BCA said:
This is all, frankly, irrelevent to UK drivers in UK registered cars. The fact of the matter is, there are NO insurance companies out there - short of incredibly specialist brokers for higher end cars - that will cover driving on TF. They are all in breach of European law regarding the exclusion of what has been said in court to be a public road, but thier right to reclaim has also been allowed through the courts. If you are driving 99.9% of the cars that lap at the ring, you are almost certainly uninsured - I know of people with newer TVRs and Porsche GT3s that have cover currently, but even this is in doubt.
This is the key issue for brits, not camera useage. I am a diehard 'ring fan, I decided to go every year from the first trip, but cannot do so anymore with my own car for insurance reasons. Its a real disgrace, but I am afriad it is reality. The vast majority of UK registered cars lapping are completely uninsured - they are liable for any damage to the track/ other vehicles/ people. Chancers may think its fine, but you could very easily be faced with a bill that'll bankrupt you - how many of us could take the hit of say a GT2RS being written off?? TF is no-longer an option. Simple as that. UK insurers are to blame
Is it UK insurers genuinely concerned about the risks associated with the 'Ring, or is it the Gladiators unwilling to pay for the risks associated with driving at this potentially dangerous venue?This is the key issue for brits, not camera useage. I am a diehard 'ring fan, I decided to go every year from the first trip, but cannot do so anymore with my own car for insurance reasons. Its a real disgrace, but I am afriad it is reality. The vast majority of UK registered cars lapping are completely uninsured - they are liable for any damage to the track/ other vehicles/ people. Chancers may think its fine, but you could very easily be faced with a bill that'll bankrupt you - how many of us could take the hit of say a GT2RS being written off?? TF is no-longer an option. Simple as that. UK insurers are to blame
BCA said:
This is all, frankly, irrelevent to UK drivers in UK registered cars. The fact of the matter is, there are NO insurance companies out there - short of incredibly specialist brokers for higher end cars - that will cover driving on TF. They are all in breach of European law regarding the exclusion of what has been said in court to be a public road, but thier right to reclaim has also been allowed through the courts. If you are driving 99.9% of the cars that lap at the ring, you are almost certainly uninsured - I know of people with newer TVRs and Porsche GT3s that have cover currently, but even this is in doubt.
This is the key issue for brits, not camera useage. I am a diehard 'ring fan, I decided to go every year from the first trip, but cannot do so anymore with my own car for insurance reasons. Its a real disgrace, but I am afriad it is reality. The vast majority of UK registered cars lapping are completely uninsured - they are liable for any damage to the track/ other vehicles/ people. Chancers may think its fine, but you could very easily be faced with a bill that'll bankrupt you - how many of us could take the hit of say a GT2RS being written off?? TF is no-longer an option. Simple as that. UK insurers are to blame.
Sad but absolutely true. This is the key issue for brits, not camera useage. I am a diehard 'ring fan, I decided to go every year from the first trip, but cannot do so anymore with my own car for insurance reasons. Its a real disgrace, but I am afriad it is reality. The vast majority of UK registered cars lapping are completely uninsured - they are liable for any damage to the track/ other vehicles/ people. Chancers may think its fine, but you could very easily be faced with a bill that'll bankrupt you - how many of us could take the hit of say a GT2RS being written off?? TF is no-longer an option. Simple as that. UK insurers are to blame.
I took a hard decision not to drive TF's anymore because frankly the thought of some d
head in a hot hatch overcooking it trying to overtake me on the wrong side , inconveniently dying in my vicinity and then me losing my car, house, family, shirt etc. in the resulting court case is scarier than a wet lap in an Atom. 
I know of a case that was kept very quiet where the passenger in a second car died because another guy spun on oil (i.e. not his fault). The latter was rinsed by lawyers for everything he had with no insurance to back him up. Non disclosure of this stuff seems par for the course.
My advice: stick to properly organised trackdays at the ring where everyone has signed a bit of paper!
Take care folks!
Mermaid said:
Is it UK insurers genuinely concerned about the risks associated with the 'Ring, or is it the Gladiators unwilling to pay for the risks associated with driving at this potentially dangerous venue?
UK insurers.They refuse cover* (illegal under EU law), which becomes a real problem as under EU law they are OBLIGED to cover you (3P only, which is enough here to cover the crippling risks) on any public road in the EU, so under the 'double insurance' prohibition, you CANNOT get separate cover as your insurer allegedly already covers you.
Which means 99.9% of UK drivers CANNOT get cover for the ring, even if they're prepared to pay separately. Cannot. At all.
It is possible to get cover for any trackday in the UK or abroad through specialist insurers, as a road policy isn't lawfully obliged to cover this. But while the 'ring is a public road, not there.
* In reality they're obliged to provide cover but their small print says they won't accept liability and will reclaim from you all monies paid out. Small but important distinction.
havoc said:
Mermaid said:
Is it UK insurers genuinely concerned about the risks associated with the 'Ring, or is it the Gladiators unwilling to pay for the risks associated with driving at this potentially dangerous venue?
UK insurers.They refuse cover* (illegal under EU law), which becomes a real problem as under EU law they are OBLIGED to cover you (3P only, which is enough here to cover the crippling risks) on any public road in the EU, so under the 'double insurance' prohibition, you CANNOT get separate cover as your insurer allegedly already covers you.
Which means 99.9% of UK drivers CANNOT get cover for the ring, even if they're prepared to pay separately. Cannot. At all.
It is possible to get cover for any trackday in the UK or abroad through specialist insurers, as a road policy isn't lawfully obliged to cover this. But while the 'ring is a public road, not there.
* In reality they're obliged to provide cover but their small print says they won't accept liability and will reclaim from you all monies paid out. Small but important distinction.
Someone who knows more will confirm, but I believe it has and the UK courts found for the insurance company. Christ knows how - possibly because the perception in the UK is that the 'ring is a circuit, while the reality/law in Germany is that it is a road.
UK court treats it as a circuit and rules accordingly. German law states it's a road, EU law follows German law on the matter not a UK court judgement. UK drivers royally stuffed...
UK court treats it as a circuit and rules accordingly. German law states it's a road, EU law follows German law on the matter not a UK court judgement. UK drivers royally stuffed...
havoc said:
Someone who knows more will confirm, but I believe it has and the UK courts found for the insurance company. Christ knows how - possibly because the perception in the UK is that the 'ring is a circuit, while the reality/law in Germany is that it is a road.
UK court treats it as a circuit and rules accordingly. German law states it's a road, EU law follows German law on the matter not a UK court judgement. UK drivers royally stuffed...
There is a member of PH that usually explains all of this to me on another site (for nurburgring related stuff, would rather not name it in General Gassing) - hopefully he'll chime in later to reply.UK court treats it as a circuit and rules accordingly. German law states it's a road, EU law follows German law on the matter not a UK court judgement. UK drivers royally stuffed...
The fact is still the same - we are uninsured, atleast until someone sets a precident otherwise - you are welcome to try to be the first, I personally couldnt take the financial hit, I am hoping someone will and force the UK insurers to act responsibly as part of EU law.
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