RE: Nürburgring Tourist Laps: The Future

[flemke]

BILL PAYER said:

on most road policies does it not list racing, time trials, and rallies, under exclusions. surely this includes the ring.

Why would that language, in itself, exclude the 'Ring? During TF, one is categorically forbidden to race, there is no time trialling unless one times oneself, which one could do anywhere, and the term "rally" has too many meanings to be applicable, apart from truly formal rallies of which fewer than one TF car in a hundred might be a participant.

[flemke]

HereBeMonsters said:

flemke said:

HereBeMonsters said:

I certainly never, ever go over a blind crest too quickly to stop in time. Perhaps that's why my times are so crap, but I still manage to have fun.

If you have that much self-restraint, you're a better man than I, and most of us.

I like to think so.


Seriously though, I see what you're saying about Flugplatz. Can also think of a few others. I guess I may not be able to stop dead on the circuit in time, but at least manouevre around the incident? Altough I've probably done over a hundred laps by now, I treat every one like a B road blat where I'm generally the slowest thing on there. New car might see to that, but I digress.

What there needs to be is some sort of specific, affordable insurance available. If it's 3rd party only, then fair enough. I'd certainly pay £100 or so to cover myself for a weekend.

I don't know if there is actually a law against it, but in my experience a motor insurer in one jurisdiction (UK; Germany) is extremely averse to underwriting a vehicle that is registered in a different jurisdiction.
For example, Allianz has a UK subsidiary. If you have a boatload of UK-reg cars that you want to insure with them under a fleet policy, they'll be happy to do that, but if your fleet also contains one German-reg car, they won't want to touch it.
In your example, a German underwriter (say Allianz) might be willing to sell NS-specific cover for the day, but only for German cars. If a UK underwriter were going to pitch up at Grune Holle to offer the same thing for UK cars, IINM it would not be allowed to do so unless it had been approved by and registered w German insurance regulator, which would make it a German underwriter, which was Allianz's problem.

[HereBeMonsters]

flemke said:

HereBeMonsters said:

flemke said:

HereBeMonsters said:

I certainly never, ever go over a blind crest too quickly to stop in time. Perhaps that's why my times are so crap, but I still manage to have fun.

If you have that much self-restraint, you're a better man than I, and most of us.

I like to think so.


Seriously though, I see what you're saying about Flugplatz. Can also think of a few others. I guess I may not be able to stop dead on the circuit in time, but at least manouevre around the incident? Altough I've probably done over a hundred laps by now, I treat every one like a B road blat where I'm generally the slowest thing on there. New car might see to that, but I digress.

What there needs to be is some sort of specific, affordable insurance available. If it's 3rd party only, then fair enough. I'd certainly pay £100 or so to cover myself for a weekend.

I don't know if there is actually a law against it, but in my experience a motor insurer in one jurisdiction (UK; Germany) is extremely averse to underwriting a vehicle that is registered in a different jurisdiction.
For example, Allianz has a UK subsidiary. If you have a boatload of UK-reg cars that you want to insure with them under a fleet policy, they'll be happy to do that, but if your fleet also contains one German-reg car, they won't want to touch it.
In your example, a German underwriter (say Allianz) might be willing to sell NS-specific cover for the day, but only for German cars. If a UK underwriter were going to pitch up at Grune Holle to offer the same thing for UK cars, IINM it would not be allowed to do so unless it had been approved by and registered w German insurance regulator, which would make it a German underwriter, which was Allianz's problem.

As ever, flemke, you have quashed my argument with cold hard fact. You are dead right. What can be done then?

I had insurance for the Spa trackday I did a few years ago. Was it different as it's a closed trackday rather than the open format of TF?

[flemke]

HereBeMonsters said:

flemke said:

HereBeMonsters said:

flemke said:

HereBeMonsters said:

I certainly never, ever go over a blind crest too quickly to stop in time. Perhaps that's why my times are so crap, but I still manage to have fun.

If you have that much self-restraint, you're a better man than I, and most of us.

I like to think so.


Seriously though, I see what you're saying about Flugplatz. Can also think of a few others. I guess I may not be able to stop dead on the circuit in time, but at least manouevre around the incident? Altough I've probably done over a hundred laps by now, I treat every one like a B road blat where I'm generally the slowest thing on there. New car might see to that, but I digress.

What there needs to be is some sort of specific, affordable insurance available. If it's 3rd party only, then fair enough. I'd certainly pay £100 or so to cover myself for a weekend.

I don't know if there is actually a law against it, but in my experience a motor insurer in one jurisdiction (UK; Germany) is extremely averse to underwriting a vehicle that is registered in a different jurisdiction.
For example, Allianz has a UK subsidiary. If you have a boatload of UK-reg cars that you want to insure with them under a fleet policy, they'll be happy to do that, but if your fleet also contains one German-reg car, they won't want to touch it.
In your example, a German underwriter (say Allianz) might be willing to sell NS-specific cover for the day, but only for German cars. If a UK underwriter were going to pitch up at Grune Holle to offer the same thing for UK cars, IINM it would not be allowed to do so unless it had been approved by and registered w German insurance regulator, which would make it a German underwriter, which was Allianz's problem.

As ever, flemke, you have quashed my argument with cold hard fact. You are dead right. What can be done then?

I had insurance for the Spa trackday I did a few years ago. Was it different as it's a closed trackday rather than the open format of TF?

I presume so, but that would depend on the details.

What UK insurers could do is simply to offer a motor insurance policy that includes (by failing to exclude) the Nordschleife. Then track-days would not be covered (that is, they would be treated the same as a track-day at Brands would be), but TF would be covered, as it is in a standard German motor policy. Obviously, the premium for such a policy would have to reflect the increased risk, and it would be up to the car owner which policy terms he/she preferred.

[mycool]

I know Admiral insurers specifically name the Nordscheiffe in the exclusions and on the certificate.

[BCA]

mycool said:

I know Admiral insurers specifically name the Nordscheiffe in the exclusions and on the certificate.

Mine doesn't exclude it, but I cannot afford to chance it and if you ask any of these companies they will always say no, why would they say yes when they know they can get away with it.

[BILL PAYER]

BCA said:

mycool said:

I know Admiral insurers specifically name the Nordscheiffe in the exclusions and on the certificate.

Mine doesn't exclude it, but I cannot afford to chance it and if you ask any of these companies they will always say no, why would they say yes when they know they can get away with it.

The thing is insurance companies and everyone else knows that if you crash at speed at the ring you were not there for a picnic they are not stupid

[Jonathan Legard]

Are any other European countries crippled by these clauses in insurance contracts or is it just the UK?

[blearyeyedboy]

Hmm... Are there companies who willingly rent out *insured* German-registered cars for the 'Ring? Seems like a potential business opportunity if there isn't.

[Seek]

blearyeyedboy said:

Hmm... Are there companies who willingly rent out *insured* German-registered cars for the 'Ring? Seems like a potential business opportunity if there isn't.

You mean like:
RentRaceCar.de
Rent4Ring.de

[blearyeyedboy]

Seek said:

blearyeyedboy said:

Hmm... Are there companies who willingly rent out *insured* German-registered cars for the 'Ring? Seems like a potential business opportunity if there isn't.

You mean like:
RentRaceCar.de
Rent4Ring.de

Then for me, that's a perfect answer. Get my kicks without insurance headaches, pay an appropriate market rate and reduce the possibility of court dramas to an absolute minimum.

Or get a German mate.

[1]

blearyeyedboy said:

Then for me, that's a perfect answer. Get my kicks without insurance headaches, pay an appropriate market rate and reduce the possibility of court dramas to an absolute minimum.

Or get a German mate.

You might want to check the excess, minimum of 5k Euros and the GT3 is 75k Euros!

[blearyeyedboy]

1 said:

You might want to check the excess, minimum of 5k Euros and the GT3 is 75k Euros!

Yes... and it'd hurt like a kick to the nuts. But I could stomach £5k without going bankrupt.

The cost of a Ferrari 458, a 911 GT3 and their pissed off and high-income owners who can't work for a few months... That would bankrupt most of us. Gambling on a 5k (Euro) excess is an acceptable compromise IMO.

[DiscoColin]

1 said:

You might want to check the excess, minimum of 5k Euros and the GT3 is 75k Euros!

Rent4ring Suzukis start at a 2500 euro excess now. Still a lot, but getting rather less of an emotional and scary number, and frankly I reckon that for many their offering is very reasonably priced. Good guys too (I've previously used and certainly would recommend them).

[tpickett]

I cant wait to visit the Nurburgring, glad to hear the tourist days will be staying open.