The Land and Water Speed Records Thread
Discussion
Fossilface said:
This whole thing does trouble me tbh.
It's difficult to describe how I see it, but here goes.
If the boat and DC had been rescued from the lake back in 1967, I think my feelings on it would be different, but for me, he and it sitting on the bottom for 34 years made it for me their final resting place, and there they should hve stayed and disolved away to nothing.
The sight of him, as you say, with his jester hat, stood on the back of the boat as it was drawn from the water made my blood boil tbh.
It reminded of a child showing off what he had found in the undergrowth to his friends.
This is a boat that killed a man ffs.
Taking the boat from the lake should have been a solemn thing, not a look at me opportunity.
Here was a famous WSR boat that he felt was up for grabs and so he went about doing so, and for me, conned Gina C into green lighting the project by convincing her that it and his resting places were in peril.
Does anyone know what will become of the boat after these "trials" are completed?
Is it going to start doing celebrity appearances?
I hope that no one is going to make any personal profit from it that's for sure.
I could be right, I could be wrong. I don't know.
I just can't kick this awful feeking in my stomach whenever I think about it.
It all just seems wrong to me.
I think I just find it all a bit vulgar and disrspectful.
I'd forgotten how much I felt about this. Please forgive my ramblings.
From what I have read on the Bluebird website, the craft will be kept in a local museum (sorry, I can't remember which) but will be kept in full working order ie: run up every so often to keep all the systems lubricated etc.It's difficult to describe how I see it, but here goes.
If the boat and DC had been rescued from the lake back in 1967, I think my feelings on it would be different, but for me, he and it sitting on the bottom for 34 years made it for me their final resting place, and there they should hve stayed and disolved away to nothing.
The sight of him, as you say, with his jester hat, stood on the back of the boat as it was drawn from the water made my blood boil tbh.
It reminded of a child showing off what he had found in the undergrowth to his friends.
This is a boat that killed a man ffs.
Taking the boat from the lake should have been a solemn thing, not a look at me opportunity.
Here was a famous WSR boat that he felt was up for grabs and so he went about doing so, and for me, conned Gina C into green lighting the project by convincing her that it and his resting places were in peril.
Does anyone know what will become of the boat after these "trials" are completed?
Is it going to start doing celebrity appearances?
I hope that no one is going to make any personal profit from it that's for sure.
I could be right, I could be wrong. I don't know.
I just can't kick this awful feeking in my stomach whenever I think about it.
It all just seems wrong to me.
I think I just find it all a bit vulgar and disrspectful.
I'd forgotten how much I felt about this. Please forgive my ramblings.
It will be kept so that it "could" be run on water with a couple of weeks notice.
I agree with the 'taste' aspect of the lifting of DMC and Bluebird. It could have been handled better.
But....as the boat is out of the water and they are doing a superb job restoring it, it would be a shame for it not to do some "medium speed" runs.
Fossilface said:
This whole thing does trouble me tbh.
It's difficult to describe how I see it, but here goes.
If the boat and DC had been rescued from the lake back in 1967, I think my feelings on it would be different, but for me, he and it sitting on the bottom for 34 years made it for me their final resting place, and there they should hve stayed and disolved away to nothing.
The sight of him, as you say, with his jester hat, stood on the back of the boat as it was drawn from the water made my blood boil tbh.
It reminded of a child showing off what he had found in the undergrowth to his friends.
This is a boat that killed a man ffs.
Taking the boat from the lake should have been a solemn thing, not a look at me opportunity.
Here was a famous WSR boat that he felt was up for grabs and so he went about doing so, and for me, conned Gina C into green lighting the project by convincing her that it and his resting places were in peril.
Does anyone know what will become of the boat after these "trials" are completed?
Is it going to start doing celebrity appearances?
I hope that no one is going to make any personal profit from it that's for sure.
I could be right, I could be wrong. I don't know.
I just can't kick this awful feeking in my stomach whenever I think about it.
It all just seems wrong to me.
I think I just find it all a bit vulgar and disrspectful.
I'd forgotten how much I felt about this. Please forgive my ramblings.
Interesting Wikipedia entry for the recovery of Bluebird:It's difficult to describe how I see it, but here goes.
If the boat and DC had been rescued from the lake back in 1967, I think my feelings on it would be different, but for me, he and it sitting on the bottom for 34 years made it for me their final resting place, and there they should hve stayed and disolved away to nothing.
The sight of him, as you say, with his jester hat, stood on the back of the boat as it was drawn from the water made my blood boil tbh.
It reminded of a child showing off what he had found in the undergrowth to his friends.
This is a boat that killed a man ffs.
Taking the boat from the lake should have been a solemn thing, not a look at me opportunity.
Here was a famous WSR boat that he felt was up for grabs and so he went about doing so, and for me, conned Gina C into green lighting the project by convincing her that it and his resting places were in peril.
Does anyone know what will become of the boat after these "trials" are completed?
Is it going to start doing celebrity appearances?
I hope that no one is going to make any personal profit from it that's for sure.
I could be right, I could be wrong. I don't know.
I just can't kick this awful feeking in my stomach whenever I think about it.
It all just seems wrong to me.
I think I just find it all a bit vulgar and disrspectful.
I'd forgotten how much I felt about this. Please forgive my ramblings.
Edited by Fossilface on Thursday 10th February 10:51
Edited by Fossilface on Thursday 10th February 10:54
"Smith was criticised in some quarters for appearing jubilant whilst reportedly sitting astride the wreck when she rose from the lake, but he did not do this, standing instead on Bluebird's left hand deck with the express permission of Donald's widow, Tonia Bern-Campbell, and offering no more than a wave and a thumbs-up at the request of the gathered media. He later issued an apology on his Bluebird Project website despite the facts being incorrectly reported."
I wonder who wrote that entry?
Clearly the criticism was aimed squarely at Smith's apparent lack of respect rather than his precise position on the boat. To me, here is a person who 'appears jubilant', so was this really "incorrectly reported"? Draw your own conclusions.
Rightly or wrongly (and not knowing the man or what was discussed with DC's family), to me these are the images that define the attitute of Mr. Smith to this project: it's his toy, he's loving the attention.
This was how I described my feelings in a previous thread. Seeing those photos only reinforces my discomfort with the man's demeanour.
My opinion is slightly divisive concerning the Bluebird wreck. Jean Wales (Donald's late sister) was a family friend and was adamant that the boat should remain where it was. I would have prefered her wishes be respected, but perhaps history deserves to see the K7 - after all who saw it in the flesh before the accident? Not many I'd wager. My personal feeling is the wreck should've been left in Coniston Water, but that is likely unpopular. I felt slightly uneasy about the recoverer sitting on the hull acting like a hero for the cameras. That boat only knew one hero to my eyes and he passed 4th Jan 1967.
My opinion is slightly divisive concerning the Bluebird wreck. Jean Wales (Donald's late sister) was a family friend and was adamant that the boat should remain where it was. I would have prefered her wishes be respected, but perhaps history deserves to see the K7 - after all who saw it in the flesh before the accident? Not many I'd wager. My personal feeling is the wreck should've been left in Coniston Water, but that is likely unpopular. I felt slightly uneasy about the recoverer sitting on the hull acting like a hero for the cameras. That boat only knew one hero to my eyes and he passed 4th Jan 1967.
At the risk of this thread becoming a bit morbid, there is a land- based comparison which fits into the theme of the thread: BABS
Famous, intrepid, high profile pilot.
Killed in pursuit of a record.
The wrecked car was buried in the sand at Pendine and then 'rescued'
and subsequently restored by enthusiasts that we might all see it.
I've always felt uncomfortable with the idea of getting Bluebird up from the deep (I think because DC's body was never recovered and I thought that the two should remain together) - I have a deep sentimental streak where these things are concerned.
My distaste about the Bluebird scenario echoes that of others - that it seems like a vehicle (excuse the pun) for raising the profile of the individual concerned. I think once it had been raised (if necessary) it should have been left as an unrestored wreck.
I'd never really considered BABS in the same way and have enjoyed seeing the recreated/restored version over many, many years but now I'm reconsidering my position. Maybe they should have left it buried in the sand....
Famous, intrepid, high profile pilot.
Killed in pursuit of a record.
The wrecked car was buried in the sand at Pendine and then 'rescued'
and subsequently restored by enthusiasts that we might all see it.
I've always felt uncomfortable with the idea of getting Bluebird up from the deep (I think because DC's body was never recovered and I thought that the two should remain together) - I have a deep sentimental streak where these things are concerned.
My distaste about the Bluebird scenario echoes that of others - that it seems like a vehicle (excuse the pun) for raising the profile of the individual concerned. I think once it had been raised (if necessary) it should have been left as an unrestored wreck.
I'd never really considered BABS in the same way and have enjoyed seeing the recreated/restored version over many, many years but now I'm reconsidering my position. Maybe they should have left it buried in the sand....
Bluebird was at the bottom of a cold fresh water lake and hardly changed after 34 years and unlikely to ever change much if left there, to see Babs restored after 40 years of being buried in salt water soaked sand was quite an achievement. I do also wonder how much of Babs is original. Or if it's a typical "triggers broom" restoration like many classic cars or wrecked aircraft where only the bare minimum of the original is kept to maintain it's originality and the rest is new metalwork.
maybe that's why I feel different about it - I have to admit i know a lot more about BABS and the Owen family than I do about the guy who raised Bluebird but my initial thought is that the rescue and restoration of BABS was a real labour of love by true enthusiasts interested in the engineering heritage of the thing.
The other clear difference to Campbell and Bluebird for me is that Parry Thomas was not buried with BABS
The other clear difference to Campbell and Bluebird for me is that Parry Thomas was not buried with BABS
FourWheelDrift said:
Bluebird was at the bottom of a cold fresh water lake and hardly changed after 34 years and unlikely to ever change much if left there, to see Babs restored after 40 years of being buried in salt water soaked sand was quite an achievement. I do also wonder how much of Babs is original. Or if it's a typical "triggers broom" restoration like many classic cars or wrecked aircraft where only the bare minimum of the original is kept to maintain it's originality and the rest is new metalwork.
This is the reason (the more I read into it, possibly the only reason) why I am supportive of the Bluebird restoration. Currently, they have two shoeboxes of bits that are unsalvageable from the whole boat. The level of care that they have taken to ensure that every last bit is reused is astounding.The restoration will be the original Bluebird.
From what I have heard, Babs was quite badly corroded and a lot of new metal had to be "let in" over a substantial amount of the car. Whether that classes as a "Trigger's broom", I'm not sure. But the conditions that they were respectively exposed to were totally different.
jonnylayze said:
maybe that's why I feel different about it - I have to admit i know a lot more about BABS and the Owen family than I do about the guy who raised Bluebird but my initial thought is that the rescue and restoration of BABS was a real labour of love by true enthusiasts interested in the engineering heritage of the thing.
The other clear difference to Campbell and Bluebird for me is that Parry Thomas was not buried with BABS
I remember my Dad taking me to see Babs being restored at Owen Wyn Owen's workshop in Capel Curig one summer holiday. Must have been about 1975. IIRC there was Babs and a tiny Austin 7 next to her.The other clear difference to Campbell and Bluebird for me is that Parry Thomas was not buried with BABS
Then only a couple of years ago we visited the Museum at Pendine - it's a great little place, with Babs proudly displayed in a special room with a great view over the sands. Perfect place to keep her really.
Hopefully it might be similar with Bluebird at Coniston.
DJC said:
The difference to me is that Babs time has come and gone. K7 could still cut it.
Therefore if raised and restored...put thy ego where thy wallet is.
interesting.....Therefore if raised and restored...put thy ego where thy wallet is.
Genuinely - do you think the technology would still be up to breaking the record?
That aside, there would surely be other questions about metal fatigue etc.
Life Saab Itch said:
The level of care that they have taken to ensure that every last bit is reused is astounding.
I have read this thread with interest and today I got an update from the Bluebird Project:http://www.bluebirdproject.com/bbp/
So I'll say my bit.
LSI - your right, the care Bill and his team are putting into this is astounding.
The diary pages on the website are a bit hard going but well worth the effort.
A bit of a warning though, if you get started in the diary archive you will spend hours reading!
Bill Smith is IMHO a true British eccentric. Some of his stuff about the Lottery is fantastic!
As for the photos of him when K7 was raised - read the website.
IMO Britain needs more people like Bill.
Hang on a second we have more:
http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/
jonnylayze said:
DJC said:
The difference to me is that Babs time has come and gone. K7 could still cut it.
Therefore if raised and restored...put thy ego where thy wallet is.
interesting.....Therefore if raised and restored...put thy ego where thy wallet is.
Genuinely - do you think the technology would still be up to breaking the record?
That aside, there would surely be other questions about metal fatigue etc.
K7 could go for a record, but how much of a suicide bid would it be considering the history of the boat? Would you want to modify certain parts of the boat to make it more stable?
On the Quicksilver website it says they designed stability with up to a 10 degree angle of lift at the front. It also says that K7 was beyond the point of no return at 3 degrees.
I fully agree with running K7 at "speed". Get her up on her planing shoes and make her look right. But I think that going for a record in that boat would not be right. No matter how much any paperwork says that it is Bill Smith's boat, no matter what laws say who's "salvage rights" the boat comes under, that boat will always be Donald's boat.
f
k it. Its just an old boat, its his money he can do what he wants with it.
Time n tide wait for no man, there is still unfinished business with Coniston and if he doesnt want to, Quicksilver too inept to actually ever do, well, anything, then it just means the chances remains for someone else to settle the score or die trying.
k it. Its just an old boat, its his money he can do what he wants with it.Time n tide wait for no man, there is still unfinished business with Coniston and if he doesnt want to, Quicksilver too inept to actually ever do, well, anything, then it just means the chances remains for someone else to settle the score or die trying.
Hello,My name is Dan Ellison and have been building outrigger hydro's for yrs. I have built the current 1/4 mile tfh et record holder(4.58 sec)270.2mph, current sdba 1/4 mile et record holder(4.81)sec, 3 time sdba tfh champion and have built rc boats winning more than 20 national and world champions and set records in 2 lap,5 lap,6 lap and straight line. I am currenly building an outrigger for breaking the outboard record and first outboard to run 200+mph and have the wsr boat ready to build with small sponsorship. My record setting tfh hull can be seen at www.liquidquik.com ![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/5PBpmjTN.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/zrbU0htN" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/zrbU0htN.jpg)
Edited by D E on Saturday 12th February 15:49
Edited by D E on Saturday 12th February 15:50
D E said:
Hello,My name is Dan Ellison and have been building outrigger hydro's for yrs. I have built the current 1/4 mile tfh et record holder(4.58 sec)270.2mph, current sdba 1/4 mile et record holder(4.81)sec, 3 time sdba tfh champion and have built rc boats winning more than 20 national and world champions and set records in 2 lap,5 lap,6 lap and straight line. I am currenly building an outrigger for breaking the outboard record and first outboard to run 200+mph and have the wsr boat ready to build with small sponsorship. My record setting tfh hull can be seen at www.liquidquik.com
Impressive. Fantastic effort.Edited by D E on Saturday 12th February 15:49
Edited by D E on Saturday 12th February 15:50
Can you shed any light on the basic rules for WSR craft i.e. does primary directional control have to be via. water, and are active aerodynamics allowed?
Cheers.
My understanding is a wsr boat has to float and plane on it's own and cannot be removed from the water for the turn around run and has to complete that run within 1 hr of original and can be kilo or standing mile. Can be any propulsion system and any hull configuration. My drag boat is 21' and my wsr hull will be about 26', my kilo outboard is 19'. I also build and sell outrigger hulls for 1 ltr,2.5 ltr,5 ltr inboard hydro's.
dr_gn said:
Impressive. Fantastic effort.
Can you shed any light on the basic rules for WSR craft i.e. does primary directional control have to be via. water, and are active aerodynamics allowed?
Cheers.
Can you shed any light on the basic rules for WSR craft i.e. does primary directional control have to be via. water, and are active aerodynamics allowed?
Cheers.
Edited by D E on Sunday 13th February 16:32
jonnylayze said:
maybe that's why I feel different about it - I have to admit i know a lot more about BABS and the Owen family than I do about the guy who raised Bluebird but my initial thought is that the rescue and restoration of BABS was a real labour of love by true enthusiasts interested in the engineering heritage of the thing.
The other clear difference to Campbell and Bluebird for me is that Parry Thomas was not buried with BABS
Campbell isn't either. They recovered his body from the lake at around the same time as Bluebird.The other clear difference to Campbell and Bluebird for me is that Parry Thomas was not buried with BABS
davepoth said:
Campbell isn't either. They recovered his body from the lake at around the same time as Bluebird.
I wonder: If DC's body had been found still strapped into the boat rather than resting - purely by some function of the mechanics of the impact - a short distance away...would the wreck have been raised, let alone restored? D E said:
My understanding is a wsr boat has to float and plane on it's own and cannot be removed from the water for the turn around run and has to complete that run within 1 hr of original and can be kilo or standing mile. Can be any propulsion system and any hull configuration. My drag boat is 21' and my wsr hull will be about 26', my kilo outboard is 19'. All that is stopping my attempts are $.
So there is nothing stopping a "Ground Effect" vehicle being used with a vestigial water vane being used? Surely not?dr_gn said:
Impressive. Fantastic effort.
Can you shed any light on the basic rules for WSR craft i.e. does primary directional control have to be via. water, and are active aerodynamics allowed?
Cheers.
Can you shed any light on the basic rules for WSR craft i.e. does primary directional control have to be via. water, and are active aerodynamics allowed?
Cheers.
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