Discussion
Beware, very addictive.......
Just back from third highland road trip this year. Mid west Wales via Fort William stopover through Lairg this time, up to Tongue, over to Durness ( met six lads stretching their Porsches and Ferraris legs on loop aswell) then down to Unapool with fantastic flowing roads detouring to take in Drumbeg and Lochinver on way before more amazing stretches of highway onto Ullapool; overnight stop then Gairloch, Kinlochewe, Shieldaig, Applecross loop before crossing to Skye for another night. Next morning, ferry to Mallaig, ace roads to Fort William then down to town called Balloch, Loch Lomond entrance for meal and shut eye before heading for home today. Four nights , 1600 miles all in, driving heaven. Doesn't get much better than Western Highlands. Just as well my wife shares my thoughts/ loves the scenery.
VERY addictive, on par with our Snowdonia.
Just back from third highland road trip this year. Mid west Wales via Fort William stopover through Lairg this time, up to Tongue, over to Durness ( met six lads stretching their Porsches and Ferraris legs on loop aswell) then down to Unapool with fantastic flowing roads detouring to take in Drumbeg and Lochinver on way before more amazing stretches of highway onto Ullapool; overnight stop then Gairloch, Kinlochewe, Shieldaig, Applecross loop before crossing to Skye for another night. Next morning, ferry to Mallaig, ace roads to Fort William then down to town called Balloch, Loch Lomond entrance for meal and shut eye before heading for home today. Four nights , 1600 miles all in, driving heaven. Doesn't get much better than Western Highlands. Just as well my wife shares my thoughts/ loves the scenery.
VERY addictive, on par with our Snowdonia.
Edited by samuri on Monday 31st August 21:47
Beware, very addictive.......
Just back from third highland road trip this year. Mid west Wales via Fort William stopover through Lairg this time, up to Tongue, over to Durness ( met six lads stretching their Porsches and Ferraris legs on loop aswell) then down to Unapool with fantastic flowing roads detouring to take in Drumbeg and Lochinver on way before more amazing stretches of highway onto Ullapool; overnight stop then Gairloch, Kinlochewe, Shieldaig, Applecross loop before crossing to Skye for another night. Next morning, ferry to Mallaig, ace roads to Fort William then down to town called Balloch, Loch Lomond entrance for meal and shut eye before heading for home today. Four nights , 1600 miles all in, driving heaven. Doesn't get much better than Western Highlands. Just as well my wife shares my thoughts/ loves the scenery.
VERY addictive, on par with our Snowdonia.
Just back from third highland road trip this year. Mid west Wales via Fort William stopover through Lairg this time, up to Tongue, over to Durness ( met six lads stretching their Porsches and Ferraris legs on loop aswell) then down to Unapool with fantastic flowing roads detouring to take in Drumbeg and Lochinver on way before more amazing stretches of highway onto Ullapool; overnight stop then Gairloch, Kinlochewe, Shieldaig, Applecross loop before crossing to Skye for another night. Next morning, ferry to Mallaig, ace roads to Fort William then down to town called Balloch, Loch Lomond entrance for meal and shut eye before heading for home today. Four nights , 1600 miles all in, driving heaven. Doesn't get much better than Western Highlands. Just as well my wife shares my thoughts/ loves the scenery.
VERY addictive, on par with our Snowdonia.
Edited by samuri on Monday 31st August 21:48
samuri said:
VERY addictive,
Obviously: hence the double post. 
samuri said:
on par with our Snowdonia.
No offence, but having done both I would say more like 5 under. 
I'm in Kent so North Wales is a LOT more accessible.
But from choice, despite the long trek up and back, give me the Highlands every time.
Nice view of Dornoch Firth btw. I love the B9176.
It has always been traffic free when I have been there.
You can get a proper wriggle on.
samuri- (and anyone else doing the over the bridge to Skye ,down to Armadale & over to Mallaig route). bit of local knowledge on Mallaig, first- when you come off the ferry and head down to the island at the Fishermans mission. Turn left,and on the right at the entrance to the rail station, there's a fish shop called "Jaffies". If he's got kippers, then you won't find a better one anywhere. Or seafood etc.Then head off to he right, past the Marine Hotel and the Bank to the corner. Turn right to climb up past the Post Office /West highland Hotel ,and then the Church .Up "Annies Brae" ( the origin is unknown -my mother didn't know) , past the swimming pool and secondary school an end up after another steep descent crossing the rail bridge to join the A830. That was the OLD A830 (now B8008) , but it's still a stunning bit of road. Just don't try it in the middle of winter ( or the old fish lorries that used to struggle out of mallaig laden with herring, with juice spilling out all over the road)
Jaffy's - https://goo.gl/maps/N1IR7
B8008 route - https://goo.gl/maps/MVJHX
Description - http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title...
(Going the other way: from the South towards Mallaig).
In Mallaig's heyday the fish traffic went by rail.
When the herring fishery collapsed the fish trains disappeared too.
The revival was based on shellfish which now went by road.
The former A830 (now B8008) was most unsuitable for HGVs!
http://www.road-to-the-isles.org.uk/westword/2011j...
B8008 route - https://goo.gl/maps/MVJHX
Description - http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title...
(Going the other way: from the South towards Mallaig).
In Mallaig's heyday the fish traffic went by rail.
When the herring fishery collapsed the fish trains disappeared too.
The revival was based on shellfish which now went by road.
The former A830 (now B8008) was most unsuitable for HGVs!
http://www.road-to-the-isles.org.uk/westword/2011j...
ORD said:
Are the road surfaces as bad as they look? Look pretty rough to me.
Shandy drinking Southerner ? .....If IIRC N.Wales was a "bit far" for you ? If so you've no chance of making it to Scotland. But yes the road are awful, the midges appalling and you can't understand a word the locals say. Avoid the place like the plague.
Red Devil said:
Jaffy's - https://goo.gl/maps/N1IR7
B8008 route - https://goo.gl/maps/MVJHX
Description - http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title...
(Going the other way: from the South towards Mallaig).
In Mallaig's heyday the fish traffic went by rail.
When the herring fishery collapsed the fish trains disappeared too.
The revival was based on shellfish which now went by road.
The former A830 (now B8008) was most unsuitable for HGVs!
http://www.road-to-the-isles.org.uk/westword/2011j...
RD- Jaffy's ( from an abortion of the father of the founder -Jefry lawrie ,) as his younger sister(from memory could not pronounce Jeffry.If you go to the web site, it says the smoke house has been there since 1944, meabing that the smoke house had to be founded by Jefry an old fishbuyer and curer. the shop came a lot later. It's on the left of the old startion arch ,being one of the old waiting rooms . As for the B8008- the section I quoted was one of the best to give an idea of the old A830(imagine that with a nice coat of untreated snow). Apart from the lochailort-glenfinnan section which was uprated to a 45 MPH two lane road ( and certain sections of this were best described as cart track before the upgrade),the rest of the A830 was as the B8008 is now .B8008 route - https://goo.gl/maps/MVJHX
Description - http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title...
(Going the other way: from the South towards Mallaig).
In Mallaig's heyday the fish traffic went by rail.
When the herring fishery collapsed the fish trains disappeared too.
The revival was based on shellfish which now went by road.
The former A830 (now B8008) was most unsuitable for HGVs!
http://www.road-to-the-isles.org.uk/westword/2011j...
Herring ALWAYS went by road on the HGV of the day, and a certain percentage went by rail ,as any sent by rail had to be unloaded on the concrete pier by the ( now vintage) steam crane.Unless it was phantom fish lorries that left a trail of "bree" a mixture of herring juices and thawing ice on the road out ,and those large Trucks I met on a daily basis were ghosts.
It is debatable whether the herring deise brought about the cessation of fish by rail ,as village rumour had it that BR had a policy of "discouraging" fish freight some time in the late 50's.
As for the history of the port, there is a romantic version and what is more likely the truth . lets just say that he version the fishing counity prefers is the arrival of one fishing family from the North east, dissilutioned by the effects the highland clearances of year previous had had on his father/grandfather's way of life.
Fish train at the pier. The number on the buffer beam places it prior to nationalisation in 1948.
I have done a bit of digging. The last dedicated fish train from Mallaig ran in 1964.*
A victim of Dr Beeching who planned to axe the entire Fort William to Mallaig extension of the WHR.
Fortunately he failed so that for three years running it was voted the world's most scenic train journey.
http://www.wanderlust.co.uk/magazine/awards/wander...
* A tad over a decade later excessive fishing had caused the West Coast herring stock to collapse.
http://www.gov.scot/Uploads/Documents/HerringStocks.pdf
I have done a bit of digging. The last dedicated fish train from Mallaig ran in 1964.*
A victim of Dr Beeching who planned to axe the entire Fort William to Mallaig extension of the WHR.
Fortunately he failed so that for three years running it was voted the world's most scenic train journey.
http://www.wanderlust.co.uk/magazine/awards/wander...
* A tad over a decade later excessive fishing had caused the West Coast herring stock to collapse.
http://www.gov.scot/Uploads/Documents/HerringStocks.pdf
As a young lad my father used to get "put" on the Mallaig train in Glasgow at silly o'clock in the morning which then linked up with the Calmac steamer in Mallaig that took him on up the Sound of Sleat, through Kylerhea and on to Portree. Busy boat in those days, with stops to drop off the mail in places like Glenelg.
The steamer service was still operational in the '80s I think. Always regret not taking it myself. Still need to do the train trip.
The steamer service was still operational in the '80s I think. Always regret not taking it myself. Still need to do the train trip.
me off though that the ignorant hordes refer to Concrete Bob's masterpiece as 'The Harry Potter Bridge'! 
RD- Beeching did try to kill the line, but the financial implications of upgrading the A830 to a decent standard to provide an alternative( and the influence of a few persons of standing in parts down the line ,I'd suspect ) proved too much and the line remained. the subsidies on a coach service would have been horrendous ,as would have been the journey time . A respectable car time in something like a Cortina in the late 60's was around 1h 15. i've known it done in a 1600E at night in around 45 ins, but that's 45-48 miles in 45 mins - more like rally times. But only for those that knew the road.
I can't remember the dates of the last fish train, but as I said, there were rumours that BEFORE 1964 BR were discouraging fish freight.
I've heard other tales about the reasons for the collapse of herring stocks other than over fishing. One theory was climate change. But one thing does stand out, that for fifty + years( sometime prior to 1922) , the fishermen had worked like farmers to keep the stock .Fishing was for white fish in the herring breeding season. And strictly enforced ( as were shellfish sizes, prior to legal limits) , by the port Admiral ( see Hebridean Sharker), as were times of leaving port.
Did someone mention Steam trains - most of the journeys on this line ( till at least mid 60's) were powered by steam, with the occasional Diesel. I do remember on one early morning school run being given the privilege of riding in the rear cab of a Diesel unit on a mixed train, as the heating in the coaches didn't work. Watching the Harry Potter views of the area, reminds me that the far side of the loch where Hogwarts is fictionally situated, was a line workers/patrolman's cottage. The train would stop for one of the children on the slope. Steam trains in icy conditions failed to restart and the train had to back down to the flat to resume. Diesels did not have this problem,with a sandbox.
s2kjock- that would be the overnight sleeper train from Kings Cross, arriving in Mallaig(from memory around eight o clock).
I can't remember the dates of the last fish train, but as I said, there were rumours that BEFORE 1964 BR were discouraging fish freight.
I've heard other tales about the reasons for the collapse of herring stocks other than over fishing. One theory was climate change. But one thing does stand out, that for fifty + years( sometime prior to 1922) , the fishermen had worked like farmers to keep the stock .Fishing was for white fish in the herring breeding season. And strictly enforced ( as were shellfish sizes, prior to legal limits) , by the port Admiral ( see Hebridean Sharker), as were times of leaving port.
Did someone mention Steam trains - most of the journeys on this line ( till at least mid 60's) were powered by steam, with the occasional Diesel. I do remember on one early morning school run being given the privilege of riding in the rear cab of a Diesel unit on a mixed train, as the heating in the coaches didn't work. Watching the Harry Potter views of the area, reminds me that the far side of the loch where Hogwarts is fictionally situated, was a line workers/patrolman's cottage. The train would stop for one of the children on the slope. Steam trains in icy conditions failed to restart and the train had to back down to the flat to resume. Diesels did not have this problem,with a sandbox.
s2kjock- that would be the overnight sleeper train from Kings Cross, arriving in Mallaig(from memory around eight o clock).
s2kjock said:
I thought one of the "higher" influences on retaining the line were the estate owners needing a quick, comfortable way to visit from their London pads? The so called "deerstalker express", or was that the Kyle line?
Possibly After all ,if you follow the Portillo program ,Lochailort station was built to allow for shooting parties to alight for Inverailort house game functions. From memory ,the Glenfinnan/Lochailort section upgrade was initially designed to be single track, but changed to a S/C road after a lot of pressure from influential persons in the county.The section from fort William -Glenfinnan, bears no resemblance from that of a good few years ago ( apart from the rail bridge approx 225 miles from the A830/A861 junction).Glenfinnan-Lochailort is as it has been since the early 60's .Lochailort -Mallaig bears no resemblance to the road of that name in the late 60's. I mentioned times for the whole trip earlier-1h15 was a healthy respectable time in 1970. I've done it in a mad 45 mins, and I know of faster times.but that was by blokes who KNEW the road, often at night .these days, I've heard of 40 mins being a normal time. BUT, I'd treat the Glenfinan-Lochailort geriatric section with bad cambers / uneven surface and sharp corners with respect.
great road ,now, but I find it (after a while ), boring, so I head off onto sections of the B8008 to remember what it was like. THAT is why I suggested those heading off the ferry try heading out on the first section, to give tham the flavour of what a trip to Fort William was like all those years ago.
Beaches- best found off the old B8008 road .Places like Traigh (between Arisaig and Morar on the B8008)( on the shore side of Traigh Golf course),where it's almost like some lagoon. There's Camusdarroch ,a bit past the youth hostel, with sandy hillocks and waves as in a surfing paridise( but i'd suspect you will find that access is protected for the use of visitors to the farms). There's always Morar- lovely white sandy beaches, but BEWARE- there's a strong current flowing in from the river ,and at certain times, the incoming tide makes a lot of it dangerous waters. There's a lot of secluded beaches of various qualities down the side roads from around the Arisaig area( RHU road/Back of Keppoch) etc, and Loch Morar has ore than enough. Especially if you park at the end of the road( Bracora)and hike a mile or so to Bracorina.
Who me said:
I can't remember the dates of the last fish train, but as I said, there were rumours that BEFORE 1964 BR were discouraging fish freight.
It is possible. Dr Beeching was appointed to the Chairmanship of the BRB in 1961 and his first report came out two years later.There were doubtless behind the scenes manoeuvres happening in the interim.
The Minister of Transport who appointed him had very close links to the road lobby!
The moves to abandon wagon load traffic in favour of block trains (mostly of bulk cargo (coal, aggregate, ore, cement, etc.) began around that time.
What merchandise traffic remained was palletised and transported in large containers on centre to centre trains. BR ceased to be a general carrier.
The fish trains were made up of dedicated 12 ton vans/containers on flat wagons. Using them for general merchandise was impossible or the goods would reek of fish!
As I said the last one ran in 1964: which month/day I'm not sure. Would need to ask one of my railway geek friends.
Who me said:
Did someone mention Steam trains - most of the journeys on this line ( till at least mid 60's) were powered by steam, with the occasional Diesel.
Glasgow Queen Street to Mallaig at Crianlarich Upper - http://www.robertdarlaston.co.uk/Railways3_files/i...
Glasgow Queen Street to Mallaig entering Fort William - http://www.robertdarlaston.co.uk/Railways3_files/i...
Loch Eil approaching Glenfinnan - http://www.robertdarlaston.co.uk/Railways3_files/i...
Departing from Mallaig - http://www.robertdarlaston.co.uk/Railways3_files/i...
These are all from 1959 but could just as easily have been a few years later. When the end of steam came it was very rapid.
Mallaig station" - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0...
* The sky blue Scottish Region sign is a British Railways one. The British Rail 'double arrow' logo wasn't launched until January 1965.
It would have taken a little while to establish itself that far north.
Most steam engines were gone by 1967 and the very last train on BR (the Fifteen Guinea Special) ran on 11th August 1968 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTY0YPsLePg
Well before then diesels had already totally replaced steam on the FW/Mallaig line - http://www.eastbank.org.uk/images/NBL/UK0301.jpg
Who me said:
s2kjock- that would be the overnight sleeper train from Kings Cross, arriving in Mallaig(from memory around eight o clock).
In the 1960s that was the 'Aberdonian (later 'Night Aberdonian')' from Kings Cross to Aberdeen which included sleeping cars to Fort William.IIRC for some reason there was no such accommodation on the corresponding up service.
Also, AFAIK no down sleeping car service ever traversed the Mallaig extension. Any through coach(es) would have been seated accommodation only.
s2kjock said:
I thought one of the "higher" influences on retaining the line were the estate owners needing a quick, comfortable way to visit from their London pads? The so called "deerstalker express", or was that the Kyle line?
Yes, estate owners, Scottish MPs, leading business figures, etc.And no, it is the Fort William/Mallaig line, not the Kyle of Lochalsh branch
The 'Deerstalker Express' moniker was coined in the mid 1990s.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/deerstalker-expr...
The train still runs and is made up of three sections which split at Edinburgh.
The three destinations being Aberdeen, Inverness, and FW.
A new 15 year franchise commenced earlier this year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bus...
Brand new carriages are planned for introduction in 2018.
http://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm#.Vemc...
I hope that doesn't mean that the new franchisee will start ramping up prices.
Whether the ambience will change when it goes 'airline style' remains to be seen.
A couple of articles about the unique nature of this train.
http://www.scotlandmag.com/magazine/issue38/120085...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27623739
Anyway, I'm getting a bit O/T. This forum is for cars not rail travel!
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