Discussion
Jack
That is a trip and half! Hope you enjoy it and look forward to write ups and pics.
One small suggestion, when you get to Vielha take the C28/C13 eastwards and down to Sort then to La Pobla de Sugur. For me this was one of the best bits of road on my recent trip.
You'll climb up out of Vielha to a ski resort, Baqueira, then drop down through loads of open hairpin bends followed by an open flowing road next to a river to Sort.
That is a trip and half! Hope you enjoy it and look forward to write ups and pics.
One small suggestion, when you get to Vielha take the C28/C13 eastwards and down to Sort then to La Pobla de Sugur. For me this was one of the best bits of road on my recent trip.
You'll climb up out of Vielha to a ski resort, Baqueira, then drop down through loads of open hairpin bends followed by an open flowing road next to a river to Sort.
Revised route plan. Two rest periods of 6 days altogether are included; one in the French Pyrenees and the other at Castellane.
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/u/0/edit?hl=en&a...
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/u/0/edit?hl=en&a...
Zed 44 said:
Revised route plan. Two rest periods of 6 days altogether are included; one in the French Pyrenees and the other at Castellane.
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/u/0/edit?hl=en&a...
This car collection is on your route just before Rennes, there's some amazing cars there http://www.manoir-automobile.fr/welcome/index.phphttps://mapsengine.google.com/map/u/0/edit?hl=en&a...
Well worth a stop off, the website doesn't do it justice.
PowerMalc said:
Jack
That is a trip and half! Hope you enjoy it and look forward to write ups and pics.
One small suggestion, when you get to Vielha take the C28/C13 eastwards and down to Sort then to La Pobla de Sugur. For me this was one of the best bits of road on my recent trip.
You'll climb up out of Vielha to a ski resort, Baqueira, then drop down through loads of open hairpin bends followed by an open flowing road next to a river to Sort.
First time I drove that road, it wasn't so zig zag, but steeper more direct and a virtual gravel track, in fact they were building that part of the road in the picture whilst I was there. That is a trip and half! Hope you enjoy it and look forward to write ups and pics.
One small suggestion, when you get to Vielha take the C28/C13 eastwards and down to Sort then to La Pobla de Sugur. For me this was one of the best bits of road on my recent trip.
You'll climb up out of Vielha to a ski resort, Baqueira, then drop down through loads of open hairpin bends followed by an open flowing road next to a river to Sort.
To me at least I found it very very scary especially the uphill section from Vielha which was then half the width it is now and without barriers.
Just amazing the change in just a few short years, it was so different that when I went back in the mid 2000s, at first I didn't recognise it as the same road.
I'll be driving it again in less than three weeks, here's an even better pic Jack to prepare you
Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 15th June 01:36
Yesterday was the first day of our crossing the Pyrenees. We headed more or less straight east from Bayonne following the D918 most of the time.
In a couple of places, the roads were not great (ie. Norfolk standard) but for the most part they were very good.
We took in 2 passes, the Col de Gourette and the Col du Aubisque.
It's now time to give the oh a break from 6 to 8 hour driving days so we substituting 4 wheels for 2 feet for 3 days as guests of Eurocamp.
Over the next couple of days, we’ll visit the Pont Napoleon, the Pont d’Espagne and the Cirque de Garvanie close by.
Thursday, the 26th we'll do the Col du Tourmalet and the C28/C13 from Vielha suggested by PowerMalc and Wozy68 on our way to Tremp in Spain.
In a couple of places, the roads were not great (ie. Norfolk standard) but for the most part they were very good.
We took in 2 passes, the Col de Gourette and the Col du Aubisque.
It's now time to give the oh a break from 6 to 8 hour driving days so we substituting 4 wheels for 2 feet for 3 days as guests of Eurocamp.
Over the next couple of days, we’ll visit the Pont Napoleon, the Pont d’Espagne and the Cirque de Garvanie close by.
Thursday, the 26th we'll do the Col du Tourmalet and the C28/C13 from Vielha suggested by PowerMalc and Wozy68 on our way to Tremp in Spain.
Edited by Zed 44 on Tuesday 1st July 15:52
Zed 44 said:
Yesterday was the first day of our crossing the Pyrenees. We headed more or less straight east from Bayonne following the D918 most of the time.
In a couple of places, the roads were not great (ie. Norfolk standard) but for the most part they were very good.
We took in 2 passes, the Col de Gourette and the Col du Aubisque.
It's now time to give the oh a break from 6 to 8 hour driving days so we substituting 4 wheels for 2 feet for 3 days as guests of Eurocamp.
Over the next couple of days, we’ll visit the Pont Napoleon, the Pont d’Espagne and the Cirque de Garvanie close by.
Thursday, the 26th we'll do the Col du Tourmalet and the C28/C13 from Vielha suggested by PowerMalc and Wozy68 on our way to Tremp in Spain.
Hi Jack ..... Hope your enjoying yourself In a couple of places, the roads were not great (ie. Norfolk standard) but for the most part they were very good.
We took in 2 passes, the Col de Gourette and the Col du Aubisque.
It's now time to give the oh a break from 6 to 8 hour driving days so we substituting 4 wheels for 2 feet for 3 days as guests of Eurocamp.
Over the next couple of days, we’ll visit the Pont Napoleon, the Pont d’Espagne and the Cirque de Garvanie close by.
Thursday, the 26th we'll do the Col du Tourmalet and the C28/C13 from Vielha suggested by PowerMalc and Wozy68 on our way to Tremp in Spain.
Edited by Zed 44 on Monday 23 June 15:03
A friend just came back from Spain, he said the roads over the Cols in places were in a deadful state, so much so that we are not bothering to go over them next month when we are there. It's such a shame, I guess the money isnt there for the repairs. By all accounts the French side is worse than the Spainish.
Much as we'd love to go back, it isn't going to happen this year - or next.
But we did enjoy it, and unlike Zed 44 have been just been really slack writing it up...
Day 1 - Portsmouth Ferry
What do you do with a destination of Northern Spain? Drive down, taking probably two full, dull days to do so. French motorways are generally very good but one motorway is pretty much the same as any other.
Or, get to Portsmouth just before lunch, drive onto a ferry and let someone else worry about getting you there in 24 hours. It’s not the cheapest option, and on board entertainment is negligible.
But bring a book or two, We’d also recommend one, if not two decent picnics as the on board restaurant is, not unexpectedly, slightly expensive and, although fine at lunch, a little disappointing at dinner.
The alternative is motorway services style sandwiches.
Others have told us that the Bay of Biscay can be a bit choppy. Not for us. 24 hours of crossing a huge mill pond, yes, that smooth.
Day 2 - Bilbao to Biescas
Arriving in Spain refreshed, is a great start.
It does present the first debate while on the road. How long to stay in Bilbao? Apparently there is a very cool suspension bridge.
We settled on a quick visit to http://www.guggenheim-bilbao.es/en/ - yes it is worth it architecturally, but there the feeling that, along with its New York version, and London’s Tate Modern, most of the time, the building is the best bit.
Accordingly, we walked around the outside, grabbed some swanky, arty and very nice tapas and got onto the motorway.
Not merely functional, the A-10 to Pamplona and A-21 onwards give a taste of what is to come.
Pristine tarmac, light if any traffic and for most of the way, great scenery. But motorway none the less. Somewhere around the little town of Yesa, and its lake the road becomes the N-240. And the driver’s smile becomes a bit of a grin.
Ah, is this what they meant when people recommended Spain for a road trip? No more motorway. Instead, some gently twisty single carriageway.
Some times opening, occasionally tightening. Flanked with mountains, a few of which are snow capped even at the end of May. Turn north as you head into Biescas. This is a sleepy town, out of season at this time. But the accommodation, http://www.hoteltierradebiescas.com/?lang=en has been recommended.
Not only clean, modern and quiet, they have a small indoor pool (and a larger, outdoor one that is unfortunately not filled, presumably due to us arriving pre season. Finding dinner was a little more adventurous.
A little wandering brought us to a little restaurant where our lack of common language was overlooked once we all agreed that, despite not being on the written menu, our choice of starter was the fantastic cured ham on the bar.
Lots of smiles, shrugs and a generous helping of wine later and we were happily fed.
On a purely practical note, the day time temperatures at the end of May were very pleasantly warm, around 20º, but dropped a bit in the evening. Pack a few extra layers!
Day 3 & 4 - Vielha via France
We had originally planned to visit http://www.picdumidi.com - figuring that if the place was good enough for a an observatory it would probably have pretty good views in all directions.
A last minute change was called for due to low cloud and a closed road.
Lac de Cap de Long https://goo.gl/maps/QR7lZ was put on the route instead.
This took us along the very scenic A-138 (D173 on the French side) and finally the much smaller, often single track D929.
As well as hairpins, which we were expecting, we encountered a pretty good covering of snow, which we were not.
We were really fortunate to have breathtaking views all the way up, and then the cloud cover came in, just before a light snow shower.
This trip was proving to have it all!
The weather defiantly took a turn for the worse, with some heavy rain as we carried on, in France but towards our evening destination, back in Spain.
Vielha had been recommend to us as a great stopping point in the Pyrenees so we planned a two night stay here. It certainly has a fantastic location, surrounded by ski slopes. But just after the winter season has closed, before the summer holiday makers arrive it is a bit sleepy.
That’s just the town.
Our accommodation here, Parador de Vielha takes that to another level.
It must be stressed, it isn’t actually bad, and in many ways: the views, the lounge bar, easy parking, has a lot going for it.
But it is also more than a few quirks. It does overlook the town, rather than form part of it.
Reviews mention that because it is in the loop of a hairpin on the main road, noise can be an issue.
Yes, you can hear traffic with the balcony doors open, and the enthusiastic heating meant we did keep them open but it wasn’t actually a problem - and I’m a fairly light sleeper.
More of an issue is that the Spa, a pay extra option, doesn’t open until 11am. Inconvenient if you want to have a swim before breakfast (which was a very good spread, by the way). The restaurant doesn’t open for dinner until 8pm.
Traditional perhaps, and forgivable if it was great, but we only ended up there after failing to find an option in Vielha that was more substantial than tapas.
The view from the restaurant is easily the best thing there. The lounge bar, one floor below, is also rather fabulous, in setting if nothing else. It shares the same circular layout of the restaurant, with an array of fireplaces in the centre.
I can easily imagine, that with a proper covering of snow, some fine brandy and those fires ablaze it would be the perfect place to thaw out. Throw in a Bond villain with cat, some suitable unnamed but attractive extras and you have exactly the right idea in mind!
What Vielha does have in abundance is great surrounding roads.
Head South, through a long tunnel and a few km beyond on the N-330 and you have a series of beautiful lakes, skirted by wonderful, twisting roads, with a smattering of tunnels thought the rock.
Wide, smooth and with plenty of places that, if you can bring yourself to stop, you can enjoy the view.
Or head East, on the N-260 and you wind and wiggle over a mountain pass, hairpins and snow, to Sort. If you can, make a loop of it and drive it twice. It’s that good.
[b]Day 5 Leaving Spain[b]
At this point, you can continue on the N-260, but we didn’t.
Lured by the appeal of adding a third country to the trip and what was potentially a last, great, high pass, we headed through Andorra.
You don’t need to.
Imagine driving through an airport duty free zone.
Right. Stick with the N-260 instead.
Still, hindsight being what it is, we tried to make the best of it.
Fortunately another road closure forced us to detour (do this lots, it’s really much better than you might think). Heading North on N20, then turn East on D25. It’s single track for much of the way, and the surface is rough in places but an unexpected gem. Steep, twisty and with fantastic views.
We even encountered a road still blocked by snow in June.
Unfortunately we also had our way blocked by some sheep, and, after nearly an hour, saw another vehicle so decided that it should be classified as “overcrowded.”
Eventually we arrived in Prades, a pleasant enough small French town but really only a stopping point for our trip.
We did manage to find some rather nice accommodation at Villa Lafabregue.
Day 6 Starting to head north
The following morning left with a quick stop at Orgues of Ille sur Tet.
This small area of incredibly beautiful erosion patterns is slowly crumbling away so if you want to see it you should probably go in the next few hundred years (rough guestimate).
Our next stop was also expected to be purely functional, a few hours drive up to Résidences de Métifiot, situated in Saint-Rémy-de-Provence. But it is fairly safe to say, the town had unexpected charm. The accommodation itself was basic but had the by now essential combination of pool and parking.
A few minutes walk from a very pretty centre with a choice of nice bars and restaurants.
A painter by the name of Van Gogh apparently spent some time here, and had we known, we would have planned accordingly.
Day 7 & 8 A chateau in Mâcon
But we were on a road trip, and had a plan.
We were heading into wine territory, Mâcon describes the region, and we would be staying in style.
Chateau De Besseuil is an impressive sight as you pull though the gates.
Very neatly presented and peacefully surrounded by vineyards. It has its own pool (you guessed already), and they make their own wine. And so here, our room was not actually in the chateau, but in a converted barn. A very modern take on rural accommodation, with its stark, clean lines. It didn’t bother us beyond a desire for a sofa or lounge area within the room. You get to swim in the same pool, and eat at the same restaurant.
It is that restaurant that sets Chateau De Besseuil apart. It was really very good. Do I need to mention that it does help with the service if you can speak a bit of French? Add more than a little enthusiasm to discuss as well as sample the wine and you’ll have a wonderful stay.
Day 9 Getting lost and Fizzy Wine
Two nights later and we were off. You’ll notice that the driving hadn’t been a feature for a while.
It is true that this second part of the trip (home via wine) was mostly motorway.
But an attempt to take a slightly meandering route to the E15, via some pretty vineyards, ended up being in almost totally the wrong direction.
Strange really, because the road was winding, empty and the sat-nav was off and I was enjoying the drive.
Which is how we ended up in Cluny.
We didn’t stop for lunch but I’d have no doubt you could find a very agreeable spot to spend the request few hours that meal really deserves.
Our last destination was Epernay for a little more culture.
Avenue de Champane is home to many familiar names, Möet et Chandon, Perrier-Jouët, Mercier, and our final accomodation, Hotel La Villa Eugene.
It may seem strange that many competing houses sit next to each other. Now consider that there are many kilometres of tunnels for each one to produce and store their champagne. Millions of bottles of the stuff.
Day 10 Home via a Race Track
Epernay is just south of Remes, which once had a racing circuit. Long gone, but the pit lane still remains and has been restored in recent years. You can simply drive along, park next to the garage of your choice and take the obligatory photos of your car before the final slog through to Calais and the tunnel home.
All in, we took 10 days, one of which was on a ferry, drove 1,772 miles and averaged 33.7mpg.
A wonderful trip.
But we did enjoy it, and unlike Zed 44 have been just been really slack writing it up...
Day 1 - Portsmouth Ferry
What do you do with a destination of Northern Spain? Drive down, taking probably two full, dull days to do so. French motorways are generally very good but one motorway is pretty much the same as any other.
Or, get to Portsmouth just before lunch, drive onto a ferry and let someone else worry about getting you there in 24 hours. It’s not the cheapest option, and on board entertainment is negligible.
But bring a book or two, We’d also recommend one, if not two decent picnics as the on board restaurant is, not unexpectedly, slightly expensive and, although fine at lunch, a little disappointing at dinner.
The alternative is motorway services style sandwiches.
Others have told us that the Bay of Biscay can be a bit choppy. Not for us. 24 hours of crossing a huge mill pond, yes, that smooth.
Day 2 - Bilbao to Biescas
Arriving in Spain refreshed, is a great start.
It does present the first debate while on the road. How long to stay in Bilbao? Apparently there is a very cool suspension bridge.
We settled on a quick visit to http://www.guggenheim-bilbao.es/en/ - yes it is worth it architecturally, but there the feeling that, along with its New York version, and London’s Tate Modern, most of the time, the building is the best bit.
Accordingly, we walked around the outside, grabbed some swanky, arty and very nice tapas and got onto the motorway.
Not merely functional, the A-10 to Pamplona and A-21 onwards give a taste of what is to come.
Pristine tarmac, light if any traffic and for most of the way, great scenery. But motorway none the less. Somewhere around the little town of Yesa, and its lake the road becomes the N-240. And the driver’s smile becomes a bit of a grin.
Ah, is this what they meant when people recommended Spain for a road trip? No more motorway. Instead, some gently twisty single carriageway.
Some times opening, occasionally tightening. Flanked with mountains, a few of which are snow capped even at the end of May. Turn north as you head into Biescas. This is a sleepy town, out of season at this time. But the accommodation, http://www.hoteltierradebiescas.com/?lang=en has been recommended.
Not only clean, modern and quiet, they have a small indoor pool (and a larger, outdoor one that is unfortunately not filled, presumably due to us arriving pre season. Finding dinner was a little more adventurous.
A little wandering brought us to a little restaurant where our lack of common language was overlooked once we all agreed that, despite not being on the written menu, our choice of starter was the fantastic cured ham on the bar.
Lots of smiles, shrugs and a generous helping of wine later and we were happily fed.
On a purely practical note, the day time temperatures at the end of May were very pleasantly warm, around 20º, but dropped a bit in the evening. Pack a few extra layers!
Day 3 & 4 - Vielha via France
We had originally planned to visit http://www.picdumidi.com - figuring that if the place was good enough for a an observatory it would probably have pretty good views in all directions.
A last minute change was called for due to low cloud and a closed road.
Lac de Cap de Long https://goo.gl/maps/QR7lZ was put on the route instead.
This took us along the very scenic A-138 (D173 on the French side) and finally the much smaller, often single track D929.
As well as hairpins, which we were expecting, we encountered a pretty good covering of snow, which we were not.
We were really fortunate to have breathtaking views all the way up, and then the cloud cover came in, just before a light snow shower.
This trip was proving to have it all!
The weather defiantly took a turn for the worse, with some heavy rain as we carried on, in France but towards our evening destination, back in Spain.
Vielha had been recommend to us as a great stopping point in the Pyrenees so we planned a two night stay here. It certainly has a fantastic location, surrounded by ski slopes. But just after the winter season has closed, before the summer holiday makers arrive it is a bit sleepy.
That’s just the town.
Our accommodation here, Parador de Vielha takes that to another level.
It must be stressed, it isn’t actually bad, and in many ways: the views, the lounge bar, easy parking, has a lot going for it.
But it is also more than a few quirks. It does overlook the town, rather than form part of it.
Reviews mention that because it is in the loop of a hairpin on the main road, noise can be an issue.
Yes, you can hear traffic with the balcony doors open, and the enthusiastic heating meant we did keep them open but it wasn’t actually a problem - and I’m a fairly light sleeper.
More of an issue is that the Spa, a pay extra option, doesn’t open until 11am. Inconvenient if you want to have a swim before breakfast (which was a very good spread, by the way). The restaurant doesn’t open for dinner until 8pm.
Traditional perhaps, and forgivable if it was great, but we only ended up there after failing to find an option in Vielha that was more substantial than tapas.
The view from the restaurant is easily the best thing there. The lounge bar, one floor below, is also rather fabulous, in setting if nothing else. It shares the same circular layout of the restaurant, with an array of fireplaces in the centre.
I can easily imagine, that with a proper covering of snow, some fine brandy and those fires ablaze it would be the perfect place to thaw out. Throw in a Bond villain with cat, some suitable unnamed but attractive extras and you have exactly the right idea in mind!
What Vielha does have in abundance is great surrounding roads.
Head South, through a long tunnel and a few km beyond on the N-330 and you have a series of beautiful lakes, skirted by wonderful, twisting roads, with a smattering of tunnels thought the rock.
Wide, smooth and with plenty of places that, if you can bring yourself to stop, you can enjoy the view.
Or head East, on the N-260 and you wind and wiggle over a mountain pass, hairpins and snow, to Sort. If you can, make a loop of it and drive it twice. It’s that good.
[b]Day 5 Leaving Spain[b]
At this point, you can continue on the N-260, but we didn’t.
Lured by the appeal of adding a third country to the trip and what was potentially a last, great, high pass, we headed through Andorra.
You don’t need to.
Imagine driving through an airport duty free zone.
Right. Stick with the N-260 instead.
Still, hindsight being what it is, we tried to make the best of it.
Fortunately another road closure forced us to detour (do this lots, it’s really much better than you might think). Heading North on N20, then turn East on D25. It’s single track for much of the way, and the surface is rough in places but an unexpected gem. Steep, twisty and with fantastic views.
We even encountered a road still blocked by snow in June.
Unfortunately we also had our way blocked by some sheep, and, after nearly an hour, saw another vehicle so decided that it should be classified as “overcrowded.”
Eventually we arrived in Prades, a pleasant enough small French town but really only a stopping point for our trip.
We did manage to find some rather nice accommodation at Villa Lafabregue.
Day 6 Starting to head north
The following morning left with a quick stop at Orgues of Ille sur Tet.
This small area of incredibly beautiful erosion patterns is slowly crumbling away so if you want to see it you should probably go in the next few hundred years (rough guestimate).
Our next stop was also expected to be purely functional, a few hours drive up to Résidences de Métifiot, situated in Saint-Rémy-de-Provence. But it is fairly safe to say, the town had unexpected charm. The accommodation itself was basic but had the by now essential combination of pool and parking.
A few minutes walk from a very pretty centre with a choice of nice bars and restaurants.
A painter by the name of Van Gogh apparently spent some time here, and had we known, we would have planned accordingly.
Day 7 & 8 A chateau in Mâcon
But we were on a road trip, and had a plan.
We were heading into wine territory, Mâcon describes the region, and we would be staying in style.
Chateau De Besseuil is an impressive sight as you pull though the gates.
Very neatly presented and peacefully surrounded by vineyards. It has its own pool (you guessed already), and they make their own wine. And so here, our room was not actually in the chateau, but in a converted barn. A very modern take on rural accommodation, with its stark, clean lines. It didn’t bother us beyond a desire for a sofa or lounge area within the room. You get to swim in the same pool, and eat at the same restaurant.
It is that restaurant that sets Chateau De Besseuil apart. It was really very good. Do I need to mention that it does help with the service if you can speak a bit of French? Add more than a little enthusiasm to discuss as well as sample the wine and you’ll have a wonderful stay.
Day 9 Getting lost and Fizzy Wine
Two nights later and we were off. You’ll notice that the driving hadn’t been a feature for a while.
It is true that this second part of the trip (home via wine) was mostly motorway.
But an attempt to take a slightly meandering route to the E15, via some pretty vineyards, ended up being in almost totally the wrong direction.
Strange really, because the road was winding, empty and the sat-nav was off and I was enjoying the drive.
Which is how we ended up in Cluny.
We didn’t stop for lunch but I’d have no doubt you could find a very agreeable spot to spend the request few hours that meal really deserves.
Our last destination was Epernay for a little more culture.
Avenue de Champane is home to many familiar names, Möet et Chandon, Perrier-Jouët, Mercier, and our final accomodation, Hotel La Villa Eugene.
It may seem strange that many competing houses sit next to each other. Now consider that there are many kilometres of tunnels for each one to produce and store their champagne. Millions of bottles of the stuff.
Day 10 Home via a Race Track
Epernay is just south of Remes, which once had a racing circuit. Long gone, but the pit lane still remains and has been restored in recent years. You can simply drive along, park next to the garage of your choice and take the obligatory photos of your car before the final slog through to Calais and the tunnel home.
All in, we took 10 days, one of which was on a ferry, drove 1,772 miles and averaged 33.7mpg.
A wonderful trip.
Edited by Carbon Based on Monday 28th July 22:03
Edited by Carbon Based on Monday 28th July 22:04
Edited by Carbon Based on Monday 28th July 22:34
Edited by Carbon Based on Monday 28th July 22:34
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