Critique my Wales weekend
Discussion
Hi, this weekend we're off to Wales. Saturday is a dawn raid from Leeds with 5 cars ranging from my Elise to an M3. The group then splits around Oswestry with 2 cars heading home and the rest of us overnighting at Aberystwth. Shame the weather looks like it's going to let us down, but hey.
I know a little of Wales, but it's more complicated and crowded than my usual weekend on the west and north of Scotland. Some of the single tracks look good, but lack passing places? We want to make progress and enjoy the scenery, we don't want to break any speed records but at the same time not spend hours stuck behind dawdlers with no hope of passing.
I'd be grateful for constructive criticism of my routes from those of you who know the area?
Day 1: 5am start from Leeds
https://goo.gl/maps/qZ7ufVoDN2w
Day 2: 9am start after a fry-up (probably)
https://goo.gl/maps/XYxrUYV7cz92
At the moment Sunday looks either too long, too dull, or both. It's too late to change the overnight location now though, and I don't want to miss out on the A4069.
I know a little of Wales, but it's more complicated and crowded than my usual weekend on the west and north of Scotland. Some of the single tracks look good, but lack passing places? We want to make progress and enjoy the scenery, we don't want to break any speed records but at the same time not spend hours stuck behind dawdlers with no hope of passing.
I'd be grateful for constructive criticism of my routes from those of you who know the area?
Day 1: 5am start from Leeds
https://goo.gl/maps/qZ7ufVoDN2w
Day 2: 9am start after a fry-up (probably)
https://goo.gl/maps/XYxrUYV7cz92
At the moment Sunday looks either too long, too dull, or both. It's too late to change the overnight location now though, and I don't want to miss out on the A4069.
giveitfish said:
I know a little of Wales, but it's more complicated and crowded than my usual weekend on the west and north of Scotland. Some of the single tracks look good, but lack passing places? We want to make progress and enjoy the scenery, we don't want to break any speed records but at the same time not spend hours stuck behind dawdlers with no hope of passing.
Wales is a completely different experience from the west and north of Scotland.For starters, passing places on single track roads are pretty much non-existent.
With some exceptions, compared to the Highlands, sight lines are nowhere near as good.
Too many trees, hedges, stone walls, etc.
giveitfish said:
I'd be grateful for constructive criticism of my routes from those of you who know the area?
Day 1: 5am start from Leeds
https://goo.gl/maps/qZ7ufVoDN2w
Day 2: 9am start after a fry-up (probably)
https://goo.gl/maps/XYxrUYV7cz92
At the moment Sunday looks either too long, too dull, or both. It's too late to change the overnight location now though, and I don't want to miss out on the A4069.
Both days are longer than I would choose but YMMV.Day 1: 5am start from Leeds
https://goo.gl/maps/qZ7ufVoDN2w
Day 2: 9am start after a fry-up (probably)
https://goo.gl/maps/XYxrUYV7cz92
At the moment Sunday looks either too long, too dull, or both. It's too late to change the overnight location now though, and I don't want to miss out on the A4069.
Day 1. Rather than the A495/A458, I would go via Lake Vyrnwy and the Hellfire Pass (Bwlch-y-Groes) - https://goo.gl/maps/s9HJf5GRMWn
When you get to this junction - https://goo.gl/maps/FC68qVsVdGt - turn right and go to the top of the pass.
It's the second highest in Wales: if the weather is kind the view is stunning. So is that of the Afon Dyfi valley on the way back down.
Day 2. The A4069 Black Mountain road is subject to a 40mph speed limit from Gwynfe to Brynamman.
Rather takes the gloss off imo plus there is the increased risk of being pinged. It's off my radar now.
I would go this way from Llyn Brianne to Old Radnor - https://goo.gl/maps/h6jXkRfRQcQ2.
The road from Tirabad to LLywel on the A40 goes over the SENTA army range - https://goo.gl/maps/Rm15K6tCMGw
It often used as a tarmac rally stage and the surface is far better than most classified roads.
The remote location means the chances of getting pinged for going over the limit here are slight.
According to Google Maps it will lop quite a lot off your journey time as well. Your call.
mr pg said:
On day one divert through Ffestiniog and take the B4391, which re-joins the A4212 en-route to Bala. You'll want to do this more than once! We normally do it in both directions.
Paul.
Paul.
By leaving out the B4391 you are leaving out the finest road in North Wales. Also a decent cafe if you pass after 10:00.
Similar to the above i'd consider the following
Day 1
Going via Ffestiniog en route to Bala
I also enjoyed the run on B4405 past Tal-y-llyn to tywyn - not an all time great but a worthy diversion if you've got spare time (i don't think you will)
Day 2
I personally think the B4069 is worth doing, although you do have to be careful with speed limit and sometimes wait for a gap in the traffic. On a recent trip we effectively did the north side three times (down, up, down) as we enjoyed it so much. On the south side it does take a while to get from the 4069 to the 4061 as it is all built up low speed areas.
However as per Red Devils route I would consider trying to work in the following into your route as i think these are worth doing and possibly my highlights from a similar weekend in Wales.
The Old Military road which runs north from the A40 to Tirabad (this is the key section) and then heads west to the A483, when we did this earlier this year the tarmac was in very good condition in the middle part and deserted apart from sheep. https://goo.gl/maps/XqQrMgpyzWP2
B4520 from Brecon to Upper Chapel. Great road but perhaps difficult to get a clean run.
From Upper Chapel the road forks and gives two good options that could be looped into a triangle. I have only tried the B4519 that runs to Garth, more single track style type road and great fun.
Day 1
Going via Ffestiniog en route to Bala
I also enjoyed the run on B4405 past Tal-y-llyn to tywyn - not an all time great but a worthy diversion if you've got spare time (i don't think you will)
Day 2
I personally think the B4069 is worth doing, although you do have to be careful with speed limit and sometimes wait for a gap in the traffic. On a recent trip we effectively did the north side three times (down, up, down) as we enjoyed it so much. On the south side it does take a while to get from the 4069 to the 4061 as it is all built up low speed areas.
However as per Red Devils route I would consider trying to work in the following into your route as i think these are worth doing and possibly my highlights from a similar weekend in Wales.
The Old Military road which runs north from the A40 to Tirabad (this is the key section) and then heads west to the A483, when we did this earlier this year the tarmac was in very good condition in the middle part and deserted apart from sheep. https://goo.gl/maps/XqQrMgpyzWP2
B4520 from Brecon to Upper Chapel. Great road but perhaps difficult to get a clean run.
From Upper Chapel the road forks and gives two good options that could be looped into a triangle. I have only tried the B4519 that runs to Garth, more single track style type road and great fun.
Thanks guys, I'll check out your suggestions this evening 
I know Wales a little from previous hoons, canoe trips and following Rally GB. My experience already tells me that passing is hard and enjoyment is very traffic dependant. We don't mind long days though.
I've not been on the A4069 since the limits were applied. One of my best driving memories is following a couple of Rally GB competitors down this road on a clear night on a liaison section - they were motoring on but sooo smooth and clean, a joy to follow.
I know Wales a little from previous hoons, canoe trips and following Rally GB. My experience already tells me that passing is hard and enjoyment is very traffic dependant. We don't mind long days though.
I've not been on the A4069 since the limits were applied. One of my best driving memories is following a couple of Rally GB competitors down this road on a clear night on a liaison section - they were motoring on but sooo smooth and clean, a joy to follow.
Red Devil & waterwonder - excellent thanks for that. I'll def. fit in the route across the ranges, I remember that from spectating on the Halfway rally stage. That's the road with the fake German village on it isn't it?
Tickle & mr pg - Consider the B4391 added, looks great!
This is exactly the sort of advice I was hoping for, thanks very much.
Tickle & mr pg - Consider the B4391 added, looks great!
This is exactly the sort of advice I was hoping for, thanks very much.
(Don't think those links work properly on a mobile as I'm still seeing Meifod on the route?)
I'd echo the idea of going up the side of Vyrnwy and up to the top of the pass. The climb is a fairly steep single track road across moorland. It is full of dips and twists best suited to a go kart, so you won't want to break a land speed record, but it is amusing. But the real reward is the landscape you'll enter. If you start at Oswestry and make your way over to Vyrnwy (perhaps Llynclys -> Llansantffraid -> Llanfechain -> Llanfyllin -> Llanwddyn) you'll go from the river plain, small wooded hills, bigger bare hills, pine plantation and moorland, then proper walloping great glaciated craggy mountains, the Arans. If you're lucky, you might find fast jets tooling around the valleys below the Arans.
Quick plug for the Arans and also the nearby and slightly gentler Berwyns. These hills are largely neglected as people tend to head into Snowdonia proper or to Cadair. I'm almost loath to mention them as their solitude is a part of the attraction. Also miles of green lane across the Berwyns up over the main ridge.
I'd echo the idea of going up the side of Vyrnwy and up to the top of the pass. The climb is a fairly steep single track road across moorland. It is full of dips and twists best suited to a go kart, so you won't want to break a land speed record, but it is amusing. But the real reward is the landscape you'll enter. If you start at Oswestry and make your way over to Vyrnwy (perhaps Llynclys -> Llansantffraid -> Llanfechain -> Llanfyllin -> Llanwddyn) you'll go from the river plain, small wooded hills, bigger bare hills, pine plantation and moorland, then proper walloping great glaciated craggy mountains, the Arans. If you're lucky, you might find fast jets tooling around the valleys below the Arans.
Quick plug for the Arans and also the nearby and slightly gentler Berwyns. These hills are largely neglected as people tend to head into Snowdonia proper or to Cadair. I'm almost loath to mention them as their solitude is a part of the attraction. Also miles of green lane across the Berwyns up over the main ridge.
giveitfish said:
I'll def. fit in the route across the ranges, I remember that from spectating on the Halfway rally stage. That's the road with the fake German village on it isn't it?
The FIBUA German village is about half a mile off that road. To reach it you would need to continue straight ahead here - https://goo.gl/maps/BaKD2X6pRJ32If you did you would be trespassing on MOD property. You can see it clearly as you climb the hill near the other access road - https://goo.gl/maps/ifxUrKJptLQ2
I'm gutted that I didn't notice you had omitted the western section of the B4391. As others have pointed out, it's a must on any North Wales itinerary.
giveitfish said:
Great route for day 1. I live near Betws y Coed and thoroughly enjoy the roads around here. It's worth just dropping down the A498 from Pen y Pass (the foot of Snowdon) down past Llyn Gwynant and then going back up. The views back up to Eryri (Snowdon) are great if there is no cloud. Gives you a great sense of scale and perspective. Then the hoon down from Pen y Pass to Llanberis is epic. If you have the right vehicle and the right conditions you can really have fun down the first 2-3 miles from the car park at the top of Pen y Pass. although very twisty sight lines are great and in the right conditions/traffic the whole width of the road is yours. However, a word of caution, the sight lines over the walls are good enough to see whether a car is approaching but not a Caterham! Luckily we were both right on it and I had enough adjustment left in the Trophy to correct!Enjoy.
Well that was a great weekend. Made a few changes on the fly and cut out the section to Hundred House simply because it was getting later and later, but what a trip - despite the long "commute" from West Yorkshire. 670 miles and around 20 hours driving over 2 days.
Thanks again for the route advice everyone.
Thanks again for the route advice everyone.
There's some superb contributions in this thread, it's a valuable resource I'll be using when I plan a Welsh trip in early-2017, thank you.
This weekend I'll be joined by a handful of other Clio 182 Trophy drivers - Snowdonia & north Wales on Saturday, Brecons & south Wales on Sunday - is anyone else going to be around?
This weekend I'll be joined by a handful of other Clio 182 Trophy drivers - Snowdonia & north Wales on Saturday, Brecons & south Wales on Sunday - is anyone else going to be around?
Claude455 said:
There's some superb contributions in this thread, it's a valuable resource I'll be using when I plan a Welsh trip in early-2017, thank you.
This weekend I'll be joined by a handful of other Clio 182 Trophy drivers - Snowdonia & north Wales on Saturday, Brecons & south Wales on Sunday - is anyone else going to be around?
I won't be around but my old Trophy maybe M2 TCK, my old plate is still on the car.This weekend I'll be joined by a handful of other Clio 182 Trophy drivers - Snowdonia & north Wales on Saturday, Brecons & south Wales on Sunday - is anyone else going to be around?
Gassing Station | Roads | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff