Road designs that just don't work
Discussion
Starfighter said:
andy118run said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(He...
Must admit I don't visit Hemel Hempstead enough to say the road design does not work. But I wonder about 'magic roundabouts' in general. The Swindon one is obviously well known (never been to Swindon myself). Here's the Hemel one -
The Swindon has the extra interest of having a fire station right on it. Cue extra carnage when the bells go off and Trumpton come out on blues. Must admit I don't visit Hemel Hempstead enough to say the road design does not work. But I wonder about 'magic roundabouts' in general. The Swindon one is obviously well known (never been to Swindon myself). Here's the Hemel one -
My bugbear is the roundabout near Asda on the A370 into Weston-Super-Mare. Traffic light controlled, often with massive queues.
When the traffic lights failed for a few days traffic moved so much better, and there were no queues.... just ditch the lights!
The whole of Swansea city centre that they messed up for the bendy bus and now after the deaths they are digging up the whole road again, badly phased traffic lights that let you go 100 yards then stop again causing massive tail backs.
M4 j33 with the new merge in turn filter lane, they haven't put any signs saying to merge in 200 yards so people are crashing all the time
M4 j33 with the new merge in turn filter lane, they haven't put any signs saying to merge in 200 yards so people are crashing all the time
Fastdruid said:
MethylatedSpirit said:
Cumbernauld wins
Merge on to dual carriageway is slightly longer than a bus, combined with people merging on to the same road. At 50mph.
I take it you haven't seen the Coventry ring road? They're almost all like that. Although at 40mph.Merge on to dual carriageway is slightly longer than a bus, combined with people merging on to the same road. At 50mph.
Riley Blue said:
Fastdruid said:
MethylatedSpirit said:
Cumbernauld wins
Merge on to dual carriageway is slightly longer than a bus, combined with people merging on to the same road. At 50mph.
I take it you haven't seen the Coventry ring road? They're almost all like that. Although at 40mph.Merge on to dual carriageway is slightly longer than a bus, combined with people merging on to the same road. At 50mph.
https://goo.gl/maps/DwnGeXLHoQk
In Cumbernauld all main roads were originally national speed limit as the town had been designed to keep pedestrians away from traffic. Then in the 90s limits were lowered on the majority of roads to 40 and 50 mph limits. Mainly due to the fact pedestrians would risk crossing the roads rather than go the long way round having to trek over steep footbridges or use dingy dark underpasses. Plans which looked great in the 60's in architects drawings but didn't quite work in real life.
M11 junction 8, particularly the approach from Stansted Airport wanting the M11 North for Cambridge.
A complete b
d of a roundabout, made worse by a crumbling surface and non-existent lane markings. Although there is an unhelpful "no road markings" warning sign - no sign of repairs/repainting.
A complete b
d of a roundabout, made worse by a crumbling surface and non-existent lane markings. Although there is an unhelpful "no road markings" warning sign - no sign of repairs/repainting.GSalt said:
M11 junction 8, particularly the approach from Stansted Airport wanting the M11 North for Cambridge.
A complete bd of a roundabout, made worse by a crumbling surface and non-existent lane markings. Although there is an unhelpful "no road markings" warning sign - no sign of repairs/repainting.
I see you M11 junction 8 and raise you junction 14. If you're coming northbound you can't exit onto the A428 without taking a stupid diversion via Madingley. Add in really windy, steep slip roads with crap sight lines Then for added lols, throw in an off slip almost immediately after the on slip, which forces cars coming from the M11 wanting to go east on the AI4 to have to merge into the path of those wanting to continue west bound. A complete b
d of a roundabout, made worse by a crumbling surface and non-existent lane markings. Although there is an unhelpful "no road markings" warning sign - no sign of repairs/repainting.
donkmeister said:
This one, by Biggleswade in Bedfordshire.
Apart from the fact it's a longabout at right angles to where a longabout should be and has weird cambers in both directions, and has caught out a few lorry drivers who ended up rolling their lorries on the sharp turn, it should be fine. It looks quite innoccuous in the Google Maps images. However, combined with humans driving at busy periods the following problems are encountered:
1) If heading north up the A1 and into Biggleswade town, one needs to be in the middle lane to turn right. That is fine provided you don't find yourself near a f**king moron who ignores the road markings and gets in the rightmost lane before swooping at you at the last minute to either go straight on up the A1 or head for the left-lane on London Road. I've seen a lot of road rage directed at innocent road users for daring to use the middle lane this way!
2) If heading onto the A1 south from Biggleswade, there is a sliproad to ease the Biggleswade traffic onto the A1. Except the outside lane of the A1 has a bit of a funny bump in it there, which means regular users often keep to the inside lane when coming off the roundabout and leave the outside lane empty. So it is not that rare to see a timid driver stopping on the sliproad until a huge gap opens up.
3) That sliproad in 2) terminates not at some clear surface such as a soft or hard shoulder, but at a kerb and an effing lamp-post. Which means that if one is heading up the sliproad and a car in the outside lane decides to move to the inside lane as one is moving out, then the only option is slamming on. I've seen this happen a fair few times also.
Obviously I'm a driving god so it doesn't affect me
I use that roundabout most days, and yes t's not great, but compared to what was there before, it's much better. TBH though that whole stretch of the A1 from Alconbury to Baldock Services is an absolute disgrace at best, and criminally dangerous at worst.Apart from the fact it's a longabout at right angles to where a longabout should be and has weird cambers in both directions, and has caught out a few lorry drivers who ended up rolling their lorries on the sharp turn, it should be fine. It looks quite innoccuous in the Google Maps images. However, combined with humans driving at busy periods the following problems are encountered:
1) If heading north up the A1 and into Biggleswade town, one needs to be in the middle lane to turn right. That is fine provided you don't find yourself near a f**king moron who ignores the road markings and gets in the rightmost lane before swooping at you at the last minute to either go straight on up the A1 or head for the left-lane on London Road. I've seen a lot of road rage directed at innocent road users for daring to use the middle lane this way!
2) If heading onto the A1 south from Biggleswade, there is a sliproad to ease the Biggleswade traffic onto the A1. Except the outside lane of the A1 has a bit of a funny bump in it there, which means regular users often keep to the inside lane when coming off the roundabout and leave the outside lane empty. So it is not that rare to see a timid driver stopping on the sliproad until a huge gap opens up.
3) That sliproad in 2) terminates not at some clear surface such as a soft or hard shoulder, but at a kerb and an effing lamp-post. Which means that if one is heading up the sliproad and a car in the outside lane decides to move to the inside lane as one is moving out, then the only option is slamming on. I've seen this happen a fair few times also.
Obviously I'm a driving god so it doesn't affect me
ch108 said:
Riley Blue said:
Fastdruid said:
MethylatedSpirit said:
Cumbernauld wins
Merge on to dual carriageway is slightly longer than a bus, combined with people merging on to the same road. At 50mph.
I take it you haven't seen the Coventry ring road? They're almost all like that. Although at 40mph.Merge on to dual carriageway is slightly longer than a bus, combined with people merging on to the same road. At 50mph.
https://goo.gl/maps/DwnGeXLHoQk
In Cumbernauld all main roads were originally national speed limit as the town had been designed to keep pedestrians away from traffic. Then in the 90s limits were lowered on the majority of roads to 40 and 50 mph limits. Mainly due to the fact pedestrians would risk crossing the roads rather than go the long way round having to trek over steep footbridges or use dingy dark underpasses. Plans which looked great in the 60's in architects drawings but didn't quite work in real life.
What would be wrong with having a normal junction there?
donkmeister said:
This one, by Biggleswade in Bedfordshire.
Apart from the fact it's a longabout at right angles to where a longabout should be and has weird cambers in both directions, and has caught out a few lorry drivers who ended up rolling their lorries on the sharp turn, it should be fine. It looks quite innoccuous in the Google Maps images. However, combined with humans driving at busy periods the following problems are encountered:
1) If heading north up the A1 and into Biggleswade town, one needs to be in the middle lane to turn right. That is fine provided you don't find yourself near a f**king moron who ignores the road markings and gets in the rightmost lane before swooping at you at the last minute to either go straight on up the A1 or head for the left-lane on London Road. I've seen a lot of road rage directed at innocent road users for daring to use the middle lane this way!
2) If heading onto the A1 south from Biggleswade, there is a sliproad to ease the Biggleswade traffic onto the A1. Except the outside lane of the A1 has a bit of a funny bump in it there, which means regular users often keep to the inside lane when coming off the roundabout and leave the outside lane empty. So it is not that rare to see a timid driver stopping on the sliproad until a huge gap opens up.
3) That sliproad in 2) terminates not at some clear surface such as a soft or hard shoulder, but at a kerb and an effing lamp-post. Which means that if one is heading up the sliproad and a car in the outside lane decides to move to the inside lane as one is moving out, then the only option is slamming on. I've seen this happen a fair few times also.
Obviously I'm a driving god so it doesn't affect me
The sudden tightening of the curve when heading south through that roundabout is ridiculous. Apart from the fact it's a longabout at right angles to where a longabout should be and has weird cambers in both directions, and has caught out a few lorry drivers who ended up rolling their lorries on the sharp turn, it should be fine. It looks quite innoccuous in the Google Maps images. However, combined with humans driving at busy periods the following problems are encountered:
1) If heading north up the A1 and into Biggleswade town, one needs to be in the middle lane to turn right. That is fine provided you don't find yourself near a f**king moron who ignores the road markings and gets in the rightmost lane before swooping at you at the last minute to either go straight on up the A1 or head for the left-lane on London Road. I've seen a lot of road rage directed at innocent road users for daring to use the middle lane this way!
2) If heading onto the A1 south from Biggleswade, there is a sliproad to ease the Biggleswade traffic onto the A1. Except the outside lane of the A1 has a bit of a funny bump in it there, which means regular users often keep to the inside lane when coming off the roundabout and leave the outside lane empty. So it is not that rare to see a timid driver stopping on the sliproad until a huge gap opens up.
3) That sliproad in 2) terminates not at some clear surface such as a soft or hard shoulder, but at a kerb and an effing lamp-post. Which means that if one is heading up the sliproad and a car in the outside lane decides to move to the inside lane as one is moving out, then the only option is slamming on. I've seen this happen a fair few times also.
Obviously I'm a driving god so it doesn't affect me
sensible/
Where the latter comes into the picture is a different flow altogether: A428 eastbound->A14 northbound and vice-versa. It's not signed as such though. Besides, only a sat nav route plot or local knowledge would pick it and the volume would be small as there are other more sensible/likely alternatives: e.g B1040/A1198 or via Boxworth or Dry Drayton.
jogger1976 said:
I see you M11 junction 8 and raise you junction 14. If you're coming northbound you can't exit onto the A428 without taking a stupid diversion via Madingley.
Why would you go via Madingley at all if you're heading west from the M11 northbound to the A428 towards Bedford? Leave at J13 and go via the A1303. jogger1976 said:
Add in really windy, steep slip roads with crap sight lines Then for added lols, throw in an off slip almost immediately after the on slip, which forces cars coming from the M11 wanting to go east on the AI4 to have to merge into the path of those wanting to continue west bound.
That conflict is only between M11 northbound->A14 eastbound and A428 westbound->A14 northbound - https://goo.gl/maps/ZygHmbHPkS82 - neither of those involve going via Madingley.Where the latter comes into the picture is a different flow altogether: A428 eastbound->A14 northbound and vice-versa. It's not signed as such though. Besides, only a sat nav route plot or local knowledge would pick it and the volume would be small as there are other more sensible/likely alternatives: e.g B1040/A1198 or via Boxworth or Dry Drayton.
Coming from Winchester up Easton Lane heading towards Alton via the A272
According to the signage, they expect you to move from lane three to lane one in the space of about 30M. That's fine when it's quiet (very rare) but most times all three lanes are queued solid with 95% of the traffic in lane two aiming for the M3 S exit, which is the one after the A272...
According to the signage, they expect you to move from lane three to lane one in the space of about 30M. That's fine when it's quiet (very rare) but most times all three lanes are queued solid with 95% of the traffic in lane two aiming for the M3 S exit, which is the one after the A272...
Red Devil said:
sensible/
Where the latter comes into the picture is a different flow altogether: A428 eastbound->A14 northbound and vice-versa. It's not signed as such though. Besides, only a sat nav route plot or local knowledge would pick it and the volume would be small as there are other more sensible/likely alternatives: e.g B1040/A1198 or via Boxworth or Dry Drayton.
Yes, you're probably correct Red Devil. TBH, I haven't used that section since the junction improvements, so hopefully things have changed for the better.jogger1976 said:
I see you M11 junction 8 and raise you junction 14. If you're coming northbound you can't exit onto the A428 without taking a stupid diversion via Madingley.
Why would you go via Madingley at all if you're heading west from the M11 northbound to the A428 towards Bedford? Leave at J13 and go via the A1303. jogger1976 said:
Add in really windy, steep slip roads with crap sight lines Then for added lols, throw in an off slip almost immediately after the on slip, which forces cars coming from the M11 wanting to go east on the AI4 to have to merge into the path of those wanting to continue west bound.
That conflict is only between M11 northbound->A14 eastbound and A428 westbound->A14 northbound - https://goo.gl/maps/ZygHmbHPkS82 - neither of those involve going via Madingley.Where the latter comes into the picture is a different flow altogether: A428 eastbound->A14 northbound and vice-versa. It's not signed as such though. Besides, only a sat nav route plot or local knowledge would pick it and the volume would be small as there are other more sensible/likely alternatives: e.g B1040/A1198 or via Boxworth or Dry Drayton.
I always wonder how this is supposed to work, on Leeds ring road.
2 lanes of traffic (the left can go straight or left, the right is straight-on only)
After the junction, it's a single lane with no markings to warn you or give right of way.
I always use the right lane and cringe if someones in the left lane...
2 lanes of traffic (the left can go straight or left, the right is straight-on only)
After the junction, it's a single lane with no markings to warn you or give right of way.
I always use the right lane and cringe if someones in the left lane...
Aidancky said:
I always wonder how this is supposed to work, on Leeds ring road.
2 lanes of traffic (the left can go straight or left, the right is straight-on only)
After the junction, it's a single lane with no markings to warn you or give right of way.
I always use the right lane and cringe if someones in the left lane...
It depends on traffic flows. If the major one is straight ahead then it makes sense to have both lanes available.2 lanes of traffic (the left can go straight or left, the right is straight-on only)
After the junction, it's a single lane with no markings to warn you or give right of way.
I always use the right lane and cringe if someones in the left lane...
A zip merge works perfectly well if people use common sense instead of putting their own selfish interest first.
Unfortunately that is often not the case.
The warning markings you mention are unnecessary. The Mk1 eyeball should be perfectly adequate.
That said, I see that those lights have a left turn only phase.
It is interlinked with those at the nearby Broadway/Park Side junction?
Not necessarily.
If I'm right about the light phasing being linked with the other junction there should be no conflict.
When only the left filter light is green traffic cannot approach from the Broadway direction.
Right turning traffic from Park Side will self-select whichever lane it requires at Fink Hill.
When the lights from Broadway are green at Park Side, traffic going straight on can use both lanes then zip merge.
There is a staggered junction with a similar road layout about a mile from where I live.
It functions exactly as I have described above.
If I'm right about the light phasing being linked with the other junction there should be no conflict.
When only the left filter light is green traffic cannot approach from the Broadway direction.
Right turning traffic from Park Side will self-select whichever lane it requires at Fink Hill.
When the lights from Broadway are green at Park Side, traffic going straight on can use both lanes then zip merge.
There is a staggered junction with a similar road layout about a mile from where I live.
It functions exactly as I have described above.
Red Devil said:
It depends on traffic flows. If the major one is straight ahead then it makes sense to have both lanes available.
A zip merge works perfectly well if people use common sense instead of putting their own selfish interest first.
Unfortunately that is often not the case.
The warning markings you mention are unnecessary. The Mk1 eyeball should be perfectly adequate.
That said, I see that those lights have a left turn only phase.
It is interlinked with those at the nearby Broadway/Park Side junction?
It might be interlinked with the opposite junction, can't remember.A zip merge works perfectly well if people use common sense instead of putting their own selfish interest first.
Unfortunately that is often not the case.
The warning markings you mention are unnecessary. The Mk1 eyeball should be perfectly adequate.
That said, I see that those lights have a left turn only phase.
It is interlinked with those at the nearby Broadway/Park Side junction?
I just cringe because if you set off alongside a car in the other lane, the left lane sort of goes directly towards a kerb/verge, the right lane lines up with the rest of the road.
A few times i've seen people side by side at the other end.
Aidancky said:
It might be interlinked with the opposite junction, can't remember.
I just cringe because if you set off alongside a car in the other lane, the left lane sort of goes directly towards a kerb/verge, the right lane lines up with the rest of the road.
A few times i've seen people side by side at the other end.
We have several similar road layouts in Chesterfield and manage OK, hasn't the concept of merge in turn reached Leeds yet?I just cringe because if you set off alongside a car in the other lane, the left lane sort of goes directly towards a kerb/verge, the right lane lines up with the rest of the road.
A few times i've seen people side by side at the other end.
Use that one a few times a week. It usually works pretty well as the traffic in the left lane turns slowly and a decent proportion of the traffic in the left lane turns, meaning if you're in the right lane there's almost always a gap to blend in to.
As for the rest of the ring road round there, least said, soonest mended. The new Rodley roundabout has a real humdinger of bad design on it.
As for the rest of the ring road round there, least said, soonest mended. The new Rodley roundabout has a real humdinger of bad design on it.
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