Councils filling potholes 'every 19 seconds'
Discussion
steveo3002 said:
had one here in south cambs ignored since december ...just filled it in this week
I'm also in South Cambs, whereabouts are you? One near the A14 - coming off the new Bar Hill roundabout, heading north - felt like it damn near took my wheel off not long ago. They fixed it very quickly, admittedly... but now it's opened up again. It's a b
d about 3 inches deep. It's at a point where everyone is accelerating up to NSL, and it's just over a bump such that you might not spot it.robinessex said:
But a Department for Transport spokesperson said: "This government is providing £2.5bn in funding over five years to help councils improve their roads, to ensure all road users have smoother, safer journeys."
Yearly income from vehicle tax, fuel duty, fuel VAT is £96 Billion. The government is spending 0.5% of that on the roads
I hate potholes as much as the next man, but that's some bad mathsYearly income from vehicle tax, fuel duty, fuel VAT is £96 Billion. The government is spending 0.5% of that on the roads
Edited by robinessex on Thursday 1st April 09:08
I work in complaints for a local authority.
You need to report them, teams at the moment are so stretched and money so tight that unless they are reported it's unlikely anything will be done anytime soon. Recruitment freezes and pay freezes mean there's often one person doing to jobs of 2/3/4.
Unfortunately budgets are getting smaller yet demands are greater. Stuff like social care will always take priority. But then everyone moans if council tax goes up.
If you want change campaign for more money for your local authority.
You need to report them, teams at the moment are so stretched and money so tight that unless they are reported it's unlikely anything will be done anytime soon. Recruitment freezes and pay freezes mean there's often one person doing to jobs of 2/3/4.
Unfortunately budgets are getting smaller yet demands are greater. Stuff like social care will always take priority. But then everyone moans if council tax goes up.
If you want change campaign for more money for your local authority.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I report ours, but I need not the retired mayor lives around the corner from us and usually strangely enough if he moans everything gets sorted.
That being said when they fixed everything and redid it with the stupid surface dressing solution he went and kicked off at them as originally they were going to strip it all and re do it properly.
Less than a year on the potholes are worse than they used to be and the road sufrace blinking noisy.
That being said when they fixed everything and redid it with the stupid surface dressing solution he went and kicked off at them as originally they were going to strip it all and re do it properly.
Less than a year on the potholes are worse than they used to be and the road sufrace blinking noisy.
My local council are patching potholes in record time but, as others have said, they're failing in record time too.
The patches they're putting in don't have any edge stuff on them. The ones I've seen that last have a rubbery glue sort of thing that sets around the edge and are compacted into place. The current patches are filled, rolled over with a hand roller and left to set it would appear. The A3 paper sized one near my partner was filled a month ago and already has the edge crumbling. It's not even a particularly busy road. It's just going to cost money after money for quick fixes. Looks like a case of "do it right or do it twice".
The patches they're putting in don't have any edge stuff on them. The ones I've seen that last have a rubbery glue sort of thing that sets around the edge and are compacted into place. The current patches are filled, rolled over with a hand roller and left to set it would appear. The A3 paper sized one near my partner was filled a month ago and already has the edge crumbling. It's not even a particularly busy road. It's just going to cost money after money for quick fixes. Looks like a case of "do it right or do it twice".
Throwaway555 said:
I work in complaints for a local authority.
You need to report them, teams at the moment are so stretched and money so tight that unless they are reported it's unlikely anything will be done anytime soon. Recruitment freezes and pay freezes mean there's often one person doing to jobs of 2/3/4.
Unfortunately budgets are getting smaller yet demands are greater. Stuff like social care will always take priority. But then everyone moans if council tax goes up.
If you want change campaign for more money for your local authority.
Good luck trying to sell your well-informed and reasonable viewpoint here. You'll now be told how the council should just stop spending all their money on black disabled lesbian outreach workers, or how 'my neighbour who works for the council has 15 foreign holidays a year and has just bought a solid gold toilet'. People are driving ever-heavier cars that knacker the roads. With expensive 20" rims and low profile tyres that are hopeless when faced with a pothole. And they'd rather the roads are fixed by the pothole fairy than a method that requires money (and thus taxes). All in all I predict this problem ain't going away any time soon.You need to report them, teams at the moment are so stretched and money so tight that unless they are reported it's unlikely anything will be done anytime soon. Recruitment freezes and pay freezes mean there's often one person doing to jobs of 2/3/4.
Unfortunately budgets are getting smaller yet demands are greater. Stuff like social care will always take priority. But then everyone moans if council tax goes up.
If you want change campaign for more money for your local authority.
Roger Irrelevant said:
People are driving ever-heavier cars that knacker the roads. With expensive 20" rims and low profile tyres that are hopeless when faced with a pothole. And they'd rather the roads are fixed by the pothole fairy than a method that requires money (and thus taxes). All in all I predict this problem ain't going away any time soon.
I'm all for VED being calculated by weight rather than emissions, it seems crazy that a clio 182 is more to tax than a 2.5t suv that uses more in fuel and consumables. Max_Torque said:
The issue is not potholes, but simply the under capacity, over use, and zero repair to the roads themselves. "filling in a pot hole" is no use when the top surface of the road itself is worn beyond repair. The proper fix at this point is close the road, scrape the top off, relay, roll and re open. Time consuming & expensive. So cash strapped councils are just filling pot holes to try to avoid actually fixing the problem.
This is why pot holes appear faster than they can be fixed, because the roads are worn out, and filling them is not a robust fix, so they are actually making the problem worse each time........
Exactly. The UK has a road infrastructure that is, literally, crumbling. This is due to years and years of underinvestment. Many roads need resurfaced completely and many need even deeper, structural, repairs. The reason for much of the underinvestment is simple - cut schools, social work, NHS budgets and all hell breaks loose. Cut roads budgets and it barely gets a mention in the press.This is why pot holes appear faster than they can be fixed, because the roads are worn out, and filling them is not a robust fix, so they are actually making the problem worse each time........
The thing that kills roads faster than anything else is water. Unfortunately, with budgets cut, many local authorities have had to cease routine maintenance of gullies (drains). This causes them to silt up and then the road suffers damage.
What then happens is winter comes along and a bit of freeze thaw really breaks up the road. Outcry from public, local press etc. Government response - "let’s throw a whack of money at this". Great. But if a local authority is suddenly handed £XX million that it is not used to having, it won't have the resources to utilise a sudden influx of cash. Also, resurfacing programmes take a huge amount of planning as a LA is expected to prioritise roads appropriately. Pistonheader005 says his road is knackered isn't enough - site assessments need to be carried out. This is very time consuming (however the private sector is starting to offer some services to do this with a degree of automation which, once perfected, will deliver time and financial savings). Anyway, LA needs to spend that money as if an LA ever doesn't spend budget, it will be cut next year. So LA looks to contractors to help spend the money. That's not a simple process either, however, as public sector procurement rules make everything more complicated than necessary. And slower. It also takes a lot of staff time to make sure contracts for external works are prepared correctly - it isn't a case of "hey company X, go and resurface road Y please".
What roads need is correct asset management. This has been identified by numerous reviews and studies. There is slow progress in this respect and the latest code of practice that covers road management pushes LAs in this direction.
But one of the biggest issues is this - many roads could last up to 25+ years if maintained properly. A political term is about 4 years. So you have a roads team who want long term investment strategy and people making decisions as to what they should do based on wanting re-elected in 4 years. And the two are not very compatible. How many councils want to cut, say, schools’ budget to put more money into things like gully cleaning that will make a road last longer? None. This is a vote loser much more than poor roads is.
What is needed is a long-term asset management plan for roads, and then, more importantly, politicians to read them and assign budgets appropriately.
I know this is PH so all council employees are work shy, useless etc, but while some certainly are those things, if you think that's why the roads are how they are then I'm afraid you are way off.
Ninja59 said:
I report ours, but I need not the retired mayor lives around the corner from us and usually strangely enough if he moans everything gets sorted.
Interesting. In my experience, roads where politicians live tend to be the worst condition as if a elected member’s road is seen to be resurfaced before others then it will be all over the papers. I'm sure some councils are stupid enough to pander to them, but thankfully plenty aren't.Roger Irrelevant said:
Good luck trying to sell your well-informed and reasonable viewpoint here. You'll now be told how the council should just stop spending all their money on black disabled lesbian outreach workers, or how 'my neighbour who works for the council has 15 foreign holidays a year and has just bought a solid gold toilet'. People are driving ever-heavier cars that knacker the roads. With expensive 20" rims and low profile tyres that are hopeless when faced with a pothole. And they'd rather the roads are fixed by the pothole fairy than a method that requires money (and thus taxes). All in all I predict this problem ain't going away any time soon.
Unfortunately this is the case. Ultimately the policies are formed by the political side. If the public thought it was important they would vote people in that make it their priority. Democracy in action I suppose. 
TheBALDpuma said:
robinessex said:
But a Department for Transport spokesperson said: "This government is providing £2.5bn in funding over five years to help councils improve their roads, to ensure all road users have smoother, safer journeys."
Yearly income from vehicle tax, fuel duty, fuel VAT is £96 Billion. The government is spending 0.5% of that on the roads
I hate potholes as much as the next man, but that's some bad mathsYearly income from vehicle tax, fuel duty, fuel VAT is £96 Billion. The government is spending 0.5% of that on the roads
Edited by robinessex on Thursday 1st April 09:08
robinessex said:
TheBALDpuma said:
robinessex said:
But a Department for Transport spokesperson said: "This government is providing £2.5bn in funding over five years to help councils improve their roads, to ensure all road users have smoother, safer journeys."
Yearly income from vehicle tax, fuel duty, fuel VAT is £96 Billion. The government is spending 0.5% of that on the roads
I hate potholes as much as the next man, but that's some bad mathsYearly income from vehicle tax, fuel duty, fuel VAT is £96 Billion. The government is spending 0.5% of that on the roads
Edited by robinessex on Thursday 1st April 09:08
Revenue @ £96bn/yr x 5 yrs = £480bn. £2.5bn for potholes over 5 years = 0.5% of £480bn.
That's being generous and assumes they won't increase taxes over the 5 years either.
Funk said:
robinessex said:
TheBALDpuma said:
robinessex said:
But a Department for Transport spokesperson said: "This government is providing £2.5bn in funding over five years to help councils improve their roads, to ensure all road users have smoother, safer journeys."
Yearly income from vehicle tax, fuel duty, fuel VAT is £96 Billion. The government is spending 0.5% of that on the roads
I hate potholes as much as the next man, but that's some bad mathsYearly income from vehicle tax, fuel duty, fuel VAT is £96 Billion. The government is spending 0.5% of that on the roads
Edited by robinessex on Thursday 1st April 09:08
Revenue @ £96bn/yr x 5 yrs = £480bn. £2.5bn for potholes over 5 years = 0.5% of £480bn.
That's being generous and assumes they won't increase taxes over the 5 years either.
Our Council tax is going up 6.1% this year. In fact it has gone up 42% in 8 years, so the Council have been raking it in for years and years. They have reduced services (eg. closed local library and associated services) and are getting massive new revenue from the new housing estates that they grant planning permission for on green field sites. The roads are a joke, with the same “bodge and go” attitude to pot holes. They hardly ever resurface properly.
swisstoni said:
I’m in no way close to the situation but it does seem that private contractors are making a very good living out of it.
I wonder if some other people are too.
Certainly seems to be a great con on the tax payer not to mention the "preferred" partners that are used all the time for the work. I wonder if some other people are too.
That's the trouble when someone/organization is in-charge of someone else's money.
Tax payer is just used as an endless ATM - whats worst is when government dish out money like its a party people actually believe its "free money" *palm on face*
OpulentBob said:
Is it a public road? Has it/have they been reported?
I will take a look later, but every few months the council come along and spray yellow lines around them..............ETA - yup, one has
Description:
The pothole is 1.2m wide and 1.5m long. At it's deepest, it is as deep as a tennis ball.
Edited by Jasandjules on Thursday 1st April 13:52
Chamon_Lee said:
swisstoni said:
I’m in no way close to the situation but it does seem that private contractors are making a very good living out of it.
I wonder if some other people are too.
Certainly seems to be a great con on the tax payer not to mention the "preferred" partners that are used all the time for the work. I wonder if some other people are too.
That's the trouble when someone/organization is in-charge of someone else's money.
Tax payer is just used as an endless ATM - whats worst is when government dish out money like its a party people actually believe its "free money" *palm on face*
If you tried to administer a multi-million pound maintenance contract using any old Joe Bloggs, the roads would be terrible and the cost would be no less.
Plus there are cost saving/sharing clauses in the contracts that the contractors sign up to.
Agree with the guy who works in complaints above. When we design an improvement scheme, we routinely add-in the resurfacing of the whole road. Ultimately this nearly always gets removed by Clients and QS who are looking to cut costs because budgets have been cut halfway through the year. Roads have a design life of 40 years with major maintenance rquirements after 20 years. Guess how often the budgets for the 20 year maintenance get protected...
Anyone with a driving license is an expert though...
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