New refuge areas on smart motorways
Discussion
New orange colour refuge areas are to be built on most smart motorways it has been announced.
Are these the refuge areas that should have been built in the original specification for the motorways ?
Despite what everyone else says about smart motorways the highways people maintain that smart motorways are safer than those with a hard shoulder.
It's also never mentioned how many breakdown/recovery operatives are injured or killed at the side of the road.
Having been on the wrong end of a medical incident on a smart section of the M25 and actually being in a refuge area the amount of vehicles and people sent to assist and the closure of two of four lanes gives a clue to how dangerous the people working on motorways think it is .
I had a fast response paramedic, a crewed ambulance, a police patrol car , a traffic officer car , a fire engine, a highways agency fend off/ incident truck .
Are these the refuge areas that should have been built in the original specification for the motorways ?
Despite what everyone else says about smart motorways the highways people maintain that smart motorways are safer than those with a hard shoulder.
It's also never mentioned how many breakdown/recovery operatives are injured or killed at the side of the road.
Having been on the wrong end of a medical incident on a smart section of the M25 and actually being in a refuge area the amount of vehicles and people sent to assist and the closure of two of four lanes gives a clue to how dangerous the people working on motorways think it is .
I had a fast response paramedic, a crewed ambulance, a police patrol car , a traffic officer car , a fire engine, a highways agency fend off/ incident truck .
Mr Tidy said:
I'm not sure it is a good thing.
The "Smart" M3 by me has a proper refuge every 1.6 miles, but if you can't limp to one of those you're going to stop in a live lane!
I'd rather be stuck on an old-fashioned hard shoulder.
But I'm glad medical attention was good.
It remains an awful idea, and a deadly one. Lives depend on underpaid call centre staff.The "Smart" M3 by me has a proper refuge every 1.6 miles, but if you can't limp to one of those you're going to stop in a live lane!
I'd rather be stuck on an old-fashioned hard shoulder.
But I'm glad medical attention was good.
To answer the original question, yes these are the safety areas which should have been built, they were included at much more frequent intervals in the original design which was approved for roll out before the original experiment had been completed and fully reported.
That design and operating mode has since been repeatedly changed and modified to the point that confusion arises.
That's not to say that there shouldn't be modifications as things are learnt, but it seems that all the modifications have been driven by cost savings often to the detriment of safety.
Finally it really pisses people off including me when National Highways and their previous corporate identities continue to trot out their very Selective message that these are safer than normal motorways. This completely ignores their very own figures that in the case of stopped vehicle incidents all lane running smart motorways exhibit 3 times the rate of fatal or serious injury collisions than managed motorways which have variable speeds but retain a lane as a hard shoulder. It's also nearly double the rate of conventional motorways with a hard shoulder but no variable speeds.
That design and operating mode has since been repeatedly changed and modified to the point that confusion arises.
That's not to say that there shouldn't be modifications as things are learnt, but it seems that all the modifications have been driven by cost savings often to the detriment of safety.
Finally it really pisses people off including me when National Highways and their previous corporate identities continue to trot out their very Selective message that these are safer than normal motorways. This completely ignores their very own figures that in the case of stopped vehicle incidents all lane running smart motorways exhibit 3 times the rate of fatal or serious injury collisions than managed motorways which have variable speeds but retain a lane as a hard shoulder. It's also nearly double the rate of conventional motorways with a hard shoulder but no variable speeds.
Might have been an idea to rebuild lengthen and add more refuges whilst the contraflow and machinery was still in place, this refuge improvement thing was announced whilst many miles were still under construction.
Next time they recruit agents and planners a good place to find them would be Japan, where such things are rebuilt in record time.
What difference does an orange painted refuge make when there's a wall of trucks in front as you're plodding along hoping to reach the refuge with a rapidly deflating tyre or dying engine with another truck jammed up your chuff, you can't see the blasted refuge until you're almost on it...hopefully countdown signage to the refuge is part of the alterations.
Next time they recruit agents and planners a good place to find them would be Japan, where such things are rebuilt in record time.
What difference does an orange painted refuge make when there's a wall of trucks in front as you're plodding along hoping to reach the refuge with a rapidly deflating tyre or dying engine with another truck jammed up your chuff, you can't see the blasted refuge until you're almost on it...hopefully countdown signage to the refuge is part of the alterations.
About 1300hrs today I joined the M5 at Junction 21 at Weston-Super-Mare Travelled North towards Bristol perhaps a mile or so and saw 15 to 20 cars on the hard shoulder all had between 1 and 4 tyres fully deflated…. Guess some kind of nail/screw/bolt spillage around junction 21 ….. one can only imagine if this had occurred a few miles further North on the ‘dumb’ sorry ‘smart ‘section ….
My wife's car conked out on the M23 smart section a few weeks ago.
Some fuel pressure blip made the ECU shut the engine down immediately.
I had just gone past a refuge, and didn't have the momentum to coast uphill to the next one
It was not a pleasant feeling tbh. Traffic was light and it was 30 mins before dusk, but the amount of cars only swerving round until within 3 or 4 car lengths was worrying.
Luckily I stopped just after the highways depot before the Gatwick turn, and they had 3 trucks out with 5 minutes to fend off traffic.
But that was a long 5 minutes.
I can't conceive how anyone would think smart motorways aren't way more dangerous than a dedicated hard shoulder.
But I also appreciate the sheer cost of buying and building land to widen the motorways (especially bridges and over passes) which simply wasn't palatable to voters during the austerity years.
Working "smarter" not harder with the existing land was no doubt tempting to the accountants working for Highways England (or whatever they're called this week)
Some fuel pressure blip made the ECU shut the engine down immediately.
I had just gone past a refuge, and didn't have the momentum to coast uphill to the next one
It was not a pleasant feeling tbh. Traffic was light and it was 30 mins before dusk, but the amount of cars only swerving round until within 3 or 4 car lengths was worrying.
Luckily I stopped just after the highways depot before the Gatwick turn, and they had 3 trucks out with 5 minutes to fend off traffic.
But that was a long 5 minutes.
I can't conceive how anyone would think smart motorways aren't way more dangerous than a dedicated hard shoulder.
But I also appreciate the sheer cost of buying and building land to widen the motorways (especially bridges and over passes) which simply wasn't palatable to voters during the austerity years.
Working "smarter" not harder with the existing land was no doubt tempting to the accountants working for Highways England (or whatever they're called this week)
Hot tip: avoid M23 south bound. All traffic is currently held whilst my bike is recovered.
Cut out just as I passed a refuge, and I couldn't push it 1 mile uphill to the next one
Luckily I could get to the barrier (through all the crap) so dozy vehicles didn't hit me.
Took about 8 mins for a warning to go up on the signs - after I called 999.
Cut out just as I passed a refuge, and I couldn't push it 1 mile uphill to the next one
Luckily I could get to the barrier (through all the crap) so dozy vehicles didn't hit me.
Took about 8 mins for a warning to go up on the signs - after I called 999.
To answer a few of the points here. They are orange to try and make it more obvious that they are for emrgencies, which should hopefully reduce the number of people using them for tacho breaks, a nap or the like.
There is automated technology in place to alert the control rooms, it also sets some basic warning signs before it's confirmed by a human.
Ultimately, smart motorways are what happens when a government tells the highways to increase the number of lanes, but won't give them money to actually build more lanes.
There is automated technology in place to alert the control rooms, it also sets some basic warning signs before it's confirmed by a human.
Ultimately, smart motorways are what happens when a government tells the highways to increase the number of lanes, but won't give them money to actually build more lanes.
I had a blowout on a smart motorway, I can honestly say its the scariest thing to happen in 20 years of driving. You have a split second to react the other 4 lanes have no idea whats wrong or how to react. I'm surprised my van wasn't hit as it seemed every other car left it until 20 meters before swerving round it.
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