Grenoble to Cote d'Azur - better roads for a wide/fast car?
Discussion
Plotting our route down to the Cote d'Azur, and as normal it's pretty boring down to Grenoble, but after that we've options galore.
Main question, having not done any of them before and seeing lots of very-narrow squiggles on the map, is which would suit the NSX better (without there still being a high risk of Gendarmes).
Current options are:-
1) Rte Napoleon quick - blat down to past Sisteron, then pick up the interesting stuff from Digne-les Bains all the way to Grasse
2) Rte Napoleon scenic - cross country to Gap, then Seyne, then Digne on-to Grasse
3) Route des Grand Alpes - short, then detour to Digne-les-Bains
(Note: Google maps acting up - imagine it carries on to Grasse etc...)
4) Route des Grand Alpes - full, then pick up last bit of N85
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&a...
Total journey times for the day from our Lyon start-point are roughly 6hr00 / 7hr00 / 7hr30 / 8hr45 per Google maps, all suggesting an average of 40-45mph, which even allowing for the roads gives time for petrol and rest-stops, and perhaps a quick lunch depending on 'traffic' (is there such a thing down there?).
Edit: Oh well, there go my internet skills. All 4 links point to route-4, but if you can find a link to my other maps, all 4 options are shown there. Not sure what Google Maps is doing to me, but there we go...this link should show all maps:-
http://maps.google.com/maps/user?uid=1061414946083...
Main question, having not done any of them before and seeing lots of very-narrow squiggles on the map, is which would suit the NSX better (without there still being a high risk of Gendarmes).
Current options are:-
1) Rte Napoleon quick - blat down to past Sisteron, then pick up the interesting stuff from Digne-les Bains all the way to Grasse
2) Rte Napoleon scenic - cross country to Gap, then Seyne, then Digne on-to Grasse
3) Route des Grand Alpes - short, then detour to Digne-les-Bains
(Note: Google maps acting up - imagine it carries on to Grasse etc...)
4) Route des Grand Alpes - full, then pick up last bit of N85
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&a...
Total journey times for the day from our Lyon start-point are roughly 6hr00 / 7hr00 / 7hr30 / 8hr45 per Google maps, all suggesting an average of 40-45mph, which even allowing for the roads gives time for petrol and rest-stops, and perhaps a quick lunch depending on 'traffic' (is there such a thing down there?).
Edit: Oh well, there go my internet skills. All 4 links point to route-4, but if you can find a link to my other maps, all 4 options are shown there. Not sure what Google Maps is doing to me, but there we go...this link should show all maps:-
http://maps.google.com/maps/user?uid=1061414946083...
Edited by havoc on Sunday 6th June 12:10
havoc said:
Which are the more interesting (technical, twisty) bits of the R-Napoleon?
I wouldn't say any of it is particularly twisty, maybe around Castellane bellow Gap and Charlaix above, in the main just a good fast road with plenty of sweepers hence why I would take the Bonnet and the Turini for a bit of a mix, the Bonnet was exceptionally well surfaced last year and quiet whilst afaik the Turini was closed most of last year for resurfacing, providing it as been reopened and as been completed it should be awesome. Edited by skodamanpat on Sunday 6th June 18:18
havoc said:
Main question, having not done any of them before and seeing lots of very-narrow squiggles on the map, is which would suit the NSX better (without there still being a high risk of Gendarmes)
Think we've been through this before? Either get on the N85 early or late in the day.havoc said:
Total journey times for the day from our Lyon start-point are roughly 6hr00 / 7hr00 / 7hr30 / 8hr45 per Google maps, all suggesting an average of 40-45mph, which even allowing for the roads gives time for petrol and rest-stops, and perhaps a quick lunch depending on 'traffic' (is there such a thing down there?).
You have got no chance with the RdGA, it will take you 3 full days to complete it, or 2 if you drive from dawn to dusk and don't stop for any sightseeing. Your average speed on the RdGA will be more like 20mphThe best part of the N85 is between Dignes Les Bains and Nice.
There is a good alternative to the N85, the D1075/ E712 which runs parallel and seeing as it's a lot straighter you will make ground more rapidly.
Edited by itsnotarace on Monday 7th June 09:45
itsnotarace said:
You have got no chance with the RdGA, it will take you 3 full days to complete it, or 2 if you drive from dawn to dusk and don't stop for any sightseeing. Your average speed on the RdGA will be more like 20mph
That bad?!? Traffic? Or narrowness/twistyness? Just did the Applecross pass and coastal route, and that was a slow one, albeit virtually no traffic (good job, given it's single-track)
Re: N85 - we're starting that day just outside Lyon, so that's not going to work. Dawn raid on it one morning might, although we'll then be closer to Col de Vence and Col du Turini, which might be more suitable...
RdGA is a lot of single track roads, poorly surfaced. About the UK equivalent of C or D roads lol
I wouldn't bother with Col De Turini, it's a pretty rubbish pass to drive so unless you're a massive rally fan then don't bother. Again tight and narrow, not somewhere you would want to take an NSX I'd imagine.
There are some nice sections on the way down to Grenoble, we have done the entire route without touching autoroutes (apart from a bit of dual carriageway). Last year we went Calais>Reims>Chaumont>Dijon in one day, then Dijon>Bourg-en-Bresse>Grenoble and picked up the N85 to Sisteron. Next morning we blatted down the rest of the N85 and took a detour round the Verdon Gorge.
I wouldn't bother with Col De Turini, it's a pretty rubbish pass to drive so unless you're a massive rally fan then don't bother. Again tight and narrow, not somewhere you would want to take an NSX I'd imagine.
There are some nice sections on the way down to Grenoble, we have done the entire route without touching autoroutes (apart from a bit of dual carriageway). Last year we went Calais>Reims>Chaumont>Dijon in one day, then Dijon>Bourg-en-Bresse>Grenoble and picked up the N85 to Sisteron. Next morning we blatted down the rest of the N85 and took a detour round the Verdon Gorge.
skodamanpat said:
itsnotarace said:
I wouldn't bother with Col De Turini, it's a pretty rubbish pass to drive so unless you're a massive rally fan then don't bother. Again tight and narrow, not somewhere you would want to take an NSX I'd imagine.
This is what makes it really difficult - different people have different perspectives (and yes, I am asking similar questions a different way).
For comparison, here's my view:-
- IMHO the Applecross pass was entertaining but was too narrow to be properly fun, and if there'd been any real amount of traffic coming the other way would have been rather frustrating.
- Equally, the first bit of the A87 (from Invergarry heading NW), where it's 2nd and 3rd gear twisties with some blind corners/crests, but good tarmac and easily 2 lanes, was really good fun in a technical way, and the faster parts of the A87 as you head towards Skye were absolutely awesome, although on a similar road in France I'd have to keep one eye out for les Flics...
- Llanberis pass is another great road - just wide-enough to be able to make progress, twisty enough to be fun.
So - RdGA or N85, or a mix???
Like you say it depends on your perspective, imho Turini is not particularly narrow (certainly wider than parts of the Verdon Gorge). However if you stick to the N85 you won't be disappointed by the driving experience providing you don't,
A) Get stuck in traffic (tourist coaches, HGV wazzocks in French registered 1.1 s
t boxes that will make their car wider than a barn door)
B) See the Flics
C) Meet bikers coming towards you on the wrong side of the road at every blind corner, overtaking (see A)
If you pick a time to avoid all the above then it is a great drive.
As you can appreciate you are more likely to run into A+B on the N85 as it is a main road.
Taking the RdGA you are imo more likely to meet 'tourists'
Taking the less direct route you are less likely to come across traffic and the traffic you do meet will probably be there for the same reason as you.
At the end of the day though you pays your money............
If you do take the Turini don't be tempted to take the D68 a one way road around the Mercantour NP
http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n236/andrewleck...
A) Get stuck in traffic (tourist coaches, HGV wazzocks in French registered 1.1 s
t boxes that will make their car wider than a barn door) B) See the Flics
C) Meet bikers coming towards you on the wrong side of the road at every blind corner, overtaking (see A)
If you pick a time to avoid all the above then it is a great drive.
As you can appreciate you are more likely to run into A+B on the N85 as it is a main road.
Taking the RdGA you are imo more likely to meet 'tourists'
Taking the less direct route you are less likely to come across traffic and the traffic you do meet will probably be there for the same reason as you.
At the end of the day though you pays your money............
If you do take the Turini don't be tempted to take the D68 a one way road around the Mercantour NP
http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n236/andrewleck...
Edited by skodamanpat on Monday 7th June 21:10
skodamanpat said:
Taking the less direct route you are less likely to come across traffic and the traffic you do meet will probably be there for the same reason as you.
Given we're going to be hitting the fun stuff around the middle of the day, that was one thought behind something like Route-2 or Route-3 - avoiding the main through/tourist roads until I get to Digne, when I want to be on the N85 and I'll just take my chance...
Ultimately though, I'm just going to have to take it as I find it, and make my own opportunities later on.
skodamanpat said:
There are much better passes out there, that are still narrow but have good visibility - enough to overtake going into (and through) hairpins themselves. Col de la Bonnette is a good example, so is Col de Vars, Col du Galibier, Col de l'Iseran and Col del la Croix de Fer
As for Verdon Gorge being narrow, only in a couple of places. The rest of it opens up nicely and is properly hoonable.
OP - just stick to the N85 and watch your speed.
itsnotarace said:
skodamanpat said:
There are much better passes out there, that are still narrow but have good visibility - enough to overtake going into (and through) hairpins themselves. Col de la Bonnette is a good example, so is Col de Vars, Col du Galibier, Col de l'Iseran and Col del la Croix de Fer
As for Verdon Gorge being narrow, only in a couple of places. The rest of it opens up nicely and is properly hoonable.
OP - just stick to the N85 and watch your speed.
, but with the exception of the Bonnette (which I also suggested the OP take) not many are in the area he wants to drive. The verdon Gorge is an interesting and scenic run but the narrowest parts of that are narrower than the Turini and get more tourist coaches etc blocking the road. For all round driving brilliance I would go for the Fluela, if you want to know what narrow is then try either the Mortirolo or the D68 (my link above. 
)
Just came back from a week in St Tropez, had an amazing drive down there.
Take E712 from Grenoble towards Gap, then at Sisteron continue on D4085/N85. Keep on N85 till Chateauredon then take D907 till La Begude-Blanche. Continue on D953 and on D11 in Riez. 6km after Riez take D111 and you gonna have an amazing view over Lac De Sainte Croix (worth planing a lunch or a short stop in Ste-Croix-du-Verdon). Then take D71 onto D49 and then I took D957. In Aups continue on D557, then D10 and D48.
I did this route from 9 am onwards and there was hardly any traffic. It's perfect for a wider car (Mustang in my case), not as exciting as Col de Turini or Stelvio but still plenty of fun. Would recommend buying a paper map just in case tho.
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Take E712 from Grenoble towards Gap, then at Sisteron continue on D4085/N85. Keep on N85 till Chateauredon then take D907 till La Begude-Blanche. Continue on D953 and on D11 in Riez. 6km after Riez take D111 and you gonna have an amazing view over Lac De Sainte Croix (worth planing a lunch or a short stop in Ste-Croix-du-Verdon). Then take D71 onto D49 and then I took D957. In Aups continue on D557, then D10 and D48.
I did this route from 9 am onwards and there was hardly any traffic. It's perfect for a wider car (Mustang in my case), not as exciting as Col de Turini or Stelvio but still plenty of fun. Would recommend buying a paper map just in case tho.
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