My 'Shed' Saab 900 Carlsson
Discussion
H141RUJ said:
Don't go past 200 bhp on the engine - though they are plenty strong and can take a good bit more, the gearbox is the weak spot and it's at about 200 bhp where the critical threshold is crossed.
Only if you drive like a teenager. Mine had 295 PS/ 460 Nm on a '91-type box with the #6 primary gearing (GM 45614) that was sourced as a 'rebuilt' gearbox from a rather notorious UK outfit (I believe their name suggests they're siblings. 
). Oh, and it sat on very sticky Toyo R1R rubber. And I did five trackdays in it (one of which being Ultimate Saab Say at Brunters in 2004 where the local Stig proceeded to take highest lateral G in it after getting it seriously sideways on most corners). And it had a paddle-type clutch to handle the grunt. Never had any problems with the gearbox...
well, apart from a dodgy synchro on 5th from the very start. Not very surprising given where it was from.
Oh, forgot to say that the antedeluvian tuning method of cranking up the boost sky high via APC, creating a huge initial spike and a diesel-like power band, does tend to kill 'boxes rather quickly. Build a properly balanced and lightened bootom end and make it breathe up top, and the cars can handle much more while being far better to drive, too...
295 ps is pretty impressive, were you running trionic or anything? I'm not looking for those power levels but you right in what you say that it's the torque rise rate that lunches the boxes. My car is a '91 so I am told it should have one of the stronger boxes... Do you have any info on box numbers etc so I could check. There s a set of type 8 primaries up for sale.. What's the difference is it just the transfer ratio between engine and box?
I was running a DI + LH 2.2 combination on a Sweedspeed-built 2,074 cc engine w/forged Cosworth pistons and a modified 9-5 head with custom intake manifold. Would probably be good for high 300s with a bigger turbo but wanted to retain the T3 rather than a T3/4 combo (power delivery was 'old school' enough as it was - below 3,500 diesel reps were a force to be reckoned with, above that everything else on the road went into reverse), and with the short primaries it was ehm, 'lively' to begin with.
Had I taken de development of the car further, T5 would have been the next ste, together with a more modern GTxxR series ball bearing turbo... Oh, and a Quaife ATB.
The '91- on boxes are the GM55x06 and GM45x14 series, full blown turbos should have the former. This was actually a fairly comprehensive redesign with wider gears IIRC after the pinion bearing assembly had been strenghtened from MY '89 (GM55x04, 45x12)
Had I taken de development of the car further, T5 would have been the next ste, together with a more modern GTxxR series ball bearing turbo... Oh, and a Quaife ATB.
The '91- on boxes are the GM55x06 and GM45x14 series, full blown turbos should have the former. This was actually a fairly comprehensive redesign with wider gears IIRC after the pinion bearing assembly had been strenghtened from MY '89 (GM55x04, 45x12)
- 8 primaries have been considered rocking horse pooh for as long as I know, back then folks were paying as much for a set of those as for a tatty but useable 900T... If you can get a pair for a reasonable price, I'd say snap 'em up even if you don't intend to use them (right away).
Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 7th July 12:29
Ah-hah! See what you've started now you've opened up the Pandora's box?
I think Gin was called 'Mother's Ruin', with this motor, you're on a one way ticket to rehab....
I checked my paperwork and the fairly comprehensive spec sheets I have show your motor as a 1990 spec. Leather was standard in the 1991 - as was the rear wiper which isn't showing on yours. If you check the last letter in the chassis number,around position 10, if the letter is M its 91, if its L its 90.
But it's likely the gearbox was already changed out.
And I'll take up a comment from 900T-R about driving like a teenager.... don't tell me that you never give a Boxster or a Cayman or an M3 or the likes a bit of a spanking, or use the 'sling-shot' effect when overtaking a couple of cars or a truck? You might as well be driving a 900i.....
Those siblings by the way...do they have a name similar to one of the characters out of 'The Matrix' movies? I'm thinking you could otherwsie get them mixed up with the Addams Family.... Finding a proper gearbox builder is getting much harder these days...how Utopic it would be if you could pitch up and have your gears ground to spec and fitted without having to sell a kidney to fund it...that and a long sixth gear for cruising would be absolute heaven...
I think Gin was called 'Mother's Ruin', with this motor, you're on a one way ticket to rehab....
I checked my paperwork and the fairly comprehensive spec sheets I have show your motor as a 1990 spec. Leather was standard in the 1991 - as was the rear wiper which isn't showing on yours. If you check the last letter in the chassis number,around position 10, if the letter is M its 91, if its L its 90.
But it's likely the gearbox was already changed out.
And I'll take up a comment from 900T-R about driving like a teenager.... don't tell me that you never give a Boxster or a Cayman or an M3 or the likes a bit of a spanking, or use the 'sling-shot' effect when overtaking a couple of cars or a truck? You might as well be driving a 900i.....
Those siblings by the way...do they have a name similar to one of the characters out of 'The Matrix' movies? I'm thinking you could otherwsie get them mixed up with the Addams Family.... Finding a proper gearbox builder is getting much harder these days...how Utopic it would be if you could pitch up and have your gears ground to spec and fitted without having to sell a kidney to fund it...that and a long sixth gear for cruising would be absolute heaven...
You are of course right and the car is a 1990, not 91. I got my years mixed up as I used to own a G reg mini that was built in 89 but registered in early 90.
Anyway, I am awaiting a gasket for the diff inspection plate which will come off when it arrives and I'll do the gear oil and have a poke around what comes out but the box feels pretty tight at the moment and i can't afford a full rebuild yet so I'll have to tie balloons to my right foot to look after it for a bit
You are right that the 3rd gear surge is more than addictive and I have scalped a fair few more modern cars with relative ease if the revs happen to lay in my favour.
In other news. Had the back axle off this week and I am rebutting the ones that need doing, dampers and springs are in excellent nick but torque arm and panhard rod bushes were shot to bits. I'll put pictures up tomorrow.
Wheels came back from being refurbed and look lovely so I need to get some decent sealant on them, again pics tomorrow.
Hopefully I'll get the few little bits of welding done before august, do the headlining and refresh the engine bay and then there's not too much left to sort out.
I'll be at a few shows this summer so keep your eyes peeled for me!
Anyway, I am awaiting a gasket for the diff inspection plate which will come off when it arrives and I'll do the gear oil and have a poke around what comes out but the box feels pretty tight at the moment and i can't afford a full rebuild yet so I'll have to tie balloons to my right foot to look after it for a bit
You are right that the 3rd gear surge is more than addictive and I have scalped a fair few more modern cars with relative ease if the revs happen to lay in my favour.
In other news. Had the back axle off this week and I am rebutting the ones that need doing, dampers and springs are in excellent nick but torque arm and panhard rod bushes were shot to bits. I'll put pictures up tomorrow.
Wheels came back from being refurbed and look lovely so I need to get some decent sealant on them, again pics tomorrow.
Hopefully I'll get the few little bits of welding done before august, do the headlining and refresh the engine bay and then there's not too much left to sort out.
I'll be at a few shows this summer so keep your eyes peeled for me!
H141RUJ said:
And I'll take up a comment from 900T-R about driving like a teenager.... don't tell me that you never give a Boxster or a Cayman or an M3 or the likes a bit of a spanking, or use the 'sling-shot' effect when overtaking a couple of cars or a truck?
Yeah, but the drivetrain never complained about that... 
I've got a theory based on it mainly being young American males complaining about having to change gearboxes every three weeks or so 'and I only got 200 hp'... trying to smoke your opponents off the line has never been a very fruitful endeavour in a Saab. 60-1xx mph in 4th/5th however...
Love it mate. I'll admit to only coming round to these Scandinavian wonders recently. Ours is a P reg 9000 2.3LPT with the Trionic APC system, Planning to have it remapped and a 3" downpipe added for 280bhp fun 
Much fun can be had with the whoosh noises and pops & bangs on the overrun
Much fun can be had with the whoosh noises and pops & bangs on the overrun
Made some fairly decent progress over the the past week with the car off the road but have been a bit rubbish with the camera for "during" pictures due to having fairlyyy mucky hands.
Jobs done:
-3" JT Exhaust refitted
-All 4 ball joints changed on upper and lower wishbones.
-New trackrod ends due to split rubber
-Back axle and links off and hammerited
-New panhard rod and torque link bushes (other bushes did not need replacing)
-Replaced brake fluid and bled system
-Calipers painted red (Ok a bit halfords but I thought they would look nice with the refurbed wheels and they do)
-Full inspection and all rust killed and painted as a temporary fix before I can buy a decent welder
-Camcover removed and painted as it was very shabby and had to fix a slight oil leak down onto the exhaust manifold
-New gearbox oil and cured leak from diffential housing
-Wheels polished, cleaned and sealed
-Damn good clean
Jobs still to be done this summer:
Front bumper respray
Fix headlining properly
Remove instrument cluster and fix dodgey connections on backlighting ribbon and investigate odometer failure.
Welding
Naughty tweaks (play around with "go go juice" ideas on UKSaabs forum, APC Mods, Proper downpipe,FMIC, Injectors, FPR) - these may or may not happen but I am not looking for big power with this car just a 30-40hp gain which should be easily acheivable on a modest budget.
By far the worst job was the bottom balljoints on the front wishbones, For a car that has been such a pleasure to work on this was the first job that reminded me how important it is to design for easy maintenence. A proper balljoint seperator will not fit in the available gap between the thread and the hub and unless you have access to saab tool 80293829230329 you are up a foul smelling creek without a paddle. I had to use one of those wedge shaped splitters and it took hours and hours of belting away at it from either side, jumping up and down on long spanners before the tapers finall gave way.
The back axle all came apart fairly nicely but reinserting some of the new bushes without a proper press required almost all of my paitence but we got there in the end.
If I am honest I can't feel a drastic difference in how the car drives at all, the ride remains very harsh and clonky but it has given me the peace of mind that I have a few more thousands of miles to churn up before I need to worry about suspension and steering issues.
Anyone care to comment on whether new HT leads / plugs is worth doing? Am I likekly to plough another few hundred into the car and not feel any improvement haha! The car is not missing or anything like that but the ones currently fitted look a bit tired and I am wondering whether their degradation could be sapping some power, the car does not feel flat or anything but like to keep things ship shape.
Anyways, enough of my incessant babble - it's good to be driving again!
TO THE PICTURES!
manky corroded wheels
Shiny happy wheels!
Ahh my suspension is on fire!.. Mum is less than impressed with the state of the lawn
grotty back axle
shiny back axle
yes I missed several bits, but I won't tell anyone if you don't
yucky grot in rear wheel arch
scabby cam cover
painted but not finished, I need to take off the paint on the raised sections and polish them up again when it has gone properly hard after a few heat cycles.
JT refittted
Some pictures after I cleaned and resealed it - Only been polished once with SRP since I got it, not looking too shabby!
I'll do some engine bay and interior shots soon after I've given them a good clean! Really happy with the way the car looks, sounds and goes now.. I think the old girls a keeper - but there is still work to be done!
Jobs done:
-3" JT Exhaust refitted
-All 4 ball joints changed on upper and lower wishbones.
-New trackrod ends due to split rubber
-Back axle and links off and hammerited
-New panhard rod and torque link bushes (other bushes did not need replacing)
-Replaced brake fluid and bled system
-Calipers painted red (Ok a bit halfords but I thought they would look nice with the refurbed wheels and they do)
-Full inspection and all rust killed and painted as a temporary fix before I can buy a decent welder
-Camcover removed and painted as it was very shabby and had to fix a slight oil leak down onto the exhaust manifold
-New gearbox oil and cured leak from diffential housing
-Wheels polished, cleaned and sealed
-Damn good clean
Jobs still to be done this summer:
Front bumper respray
Fix headlining properly
Remove instrument cluster and fix dodgey connections on backlighting ribbon and investigate odometer failure.
Welding
Naughty tweaks (play around with "go go juice" ideas on UKSaabs forum, APC Mods, Proper downpipe,FMIC, Injectors, FPR) - these may or may not happen but I am not looking for big power with this car just a 30-40hp gain which should be easily acheivable on a modest budget.
By far the worst job was the bottom balljoints on the front wishbones, For a car that has been such a pleasure to work on this was the first job that reminded me how important it is to design for easy maintenence. A proper balljoint seperator will not fit in the available gap between the thread and the hub and unless you have access to saab tool 80293829230329 you are up a foul smelling creek without a paddle. I had to use one of those wedge shaped splitters and it took hours and hours of belting away at it from either side, jumping up and down on long spanners before the tapers finall gave way.
The back axle all came apart fairly nicely but reinserting some of the new bushes without a proper press required almost all of my paitence but we got there in the end.
If I am honest I can't feel a drastic difference in how the car drives at all, the ride remains very harsh and clonky but it has given me the peace of mind that I have a few more thousands of miles to churn up before I need to worry about suspension and steering issues.
Anyone care to comment on whether new HT leads / plugs is worth doing? Am I likekly to plough another few hundred into the car and not feel any improvement haha! The car is not missing or anything like that but the ones currently fitted look a bit tired and I am wondering whether their degradation could be sapping some power, the car does not feel flat or anything but like to keep things ship shape.
Anyways, enough of my incessant babble - it's good to be driving again!
TO THE PICTURES!
manky corroded wheels
Shiny happy wheels!
Ahh my suspension is on fire!.. Mum is less than impressed with the state of the lawn
grotty back axle
shiny back axle
yes I missed several bits, but I won't tell anyone if you don't
yucky grot in rear wheel arch
scabby cam cover
painted but not finished, I need to take off the paint on the raised sections and polish them up again when it has gone properly hard after a few heat cycles.
JT refittted
Some pictures after I cleaned and resealed it - Only been polished once with SRP since I got it, not looking too shabby!
I'll do some engine bay and interior shots soon after I've given them a good clean! Really happy with the way the car looks, sounds and goes now.. I think the old girls a keeper - but there is still work to be done!
Further reinforcing my reputation as jack of all trades master of none, I decided to turn my hand to the flickering dash illumination bulbs last night that have annoyed me since I got the car.
The bulbs both work so I know they are good but I imagined the ribbon to be knackered behind them leading them to only work when they felt like it rather than, at night, when i felt like it. :wall:
ark:
I am tempted to set up some sort of night panel mode for this car in saab style, with only the speedo being illuminated, but essentially I couldn't be bothered last night so thought I would leave that to another day.. This will probably be done by wiring a focussed LED into the dash rheostat that either backlights or subtly illuminates the speedo from below centre. I.e. when I turn the other the green lights down, the single LED will illuminate (probably in red so I feel like a fighter pilot) the speedo.
Sidetrack aside, the issue I had was my bulbs were totally fused into the gauges so even attacking them with pliers through the LH speaker grille would not help. I also have an issue with the odometer not working in the car ( I am recording estimated mileage so I can be honest if I come to sell the car..) which I would like to fix. I thought sod it, what else is there to do on a friday night, and ripped the whole dash out.
Came to bits surprisingly easily once you know how but I wasn't convinced it was ever going to go back together :bag:
I didn't get any photos of the issues with the bulbs but they were quite simply buggered. The copper pads which transferred power from ribbon to bulb holder were shredded and the bulb holes in the clocks were all melted and distorted presumably from bulbs overheating the plastic :? no dashboard fire please mr car.
Using my dual purpose soldering iron / bulb aperture reshaping tool quickly had things in shape again so i should now be able to remove/replace bulbs without ripping the whole dash out and I have not seen a hint of flickering..yet :roll:
I then set about pulling the clocks to pieces to investigate the odometer failure, only gaff here was taking the speedo needle off without first marking which angle it had to go back on at. Obviously I should put it back on at 0mph as I am quite certain my kitchen is fairly stationary, but due to the preload on the angular spring which returns the dial to 0 and presumably dampens the needles motion, I was concerned that after the needle has been removed the spindle would have moved further round. Anyway I put it back on roughly right and I will check the accuracy with my GPS later.
What took most time in this process was stopping myself making car noises and pushing the needle round at ridiculous speeds from 60-120 whilst making a series of authentic saab burbles, turbine whistles and BOV noises. I should have recorded it and put them on youtube - 850BHP Saab 900 3rd and 4th gear pull, 60-120 4.3seconds.
On pulling the speedo apart as much as I dared it became apparent that the ring gear that meshes with the green wormgear out of the speedo drive appeared to be stripped but I had no idea how to get at it without breaking anything so I gave up on that avenue and put it all back together.
After much faffing the dash went back together and although it was very dark and I was tired, I was kept enthused by the constant warming green glow of german efficiency from the VDO gauges. It looks very dim in the pictures but unless I have developed exceptional night vision it is much brighter than it used to be.
The bulbs both work so I know they are good but I imagined the ribbon to be knackered behind them leading them to only work when they felt like it rather than, at night, when i felt like it. :wall:
ark: I am tempted to set up some sort of night panel mode for this car in saab style, with only the speedo being illuminated, but essentially I couldn't be bothered last night so thought I would leave that to another day.. This will probably be done by wiring a focussed LED into the dash rheostat that either backlights or subtly illuminates the speedo from below centre. I.e. when I turn the other the green lights down, the single LED will illuminate (probably in red so I feel like a fighter pilot) the speedo.
Sidetrack aside, the issue I had was my bulbs were totally fused into the gauges so even attacking them with pliers through the LH speaker grille would not help. I also have an issue with the odometer not working in the car ( I am recording estimated mileage so I can be honest if I come to sell the car..) which I would like to fix. I thought sod it, what else is there to do on a friday night, and ripped the whole dash out.
Came to bits surprisingly easily once you know how but I wasn't convinced it was ever going to go back together :bag:
I didn't get any photos of the issues with the bulbs but they were quite simply buggered. The copper pads which transferred power from ribbon to bulb holder were shredded and the bulb holes in the clocks were all melted and distorted presumably from bulbs overheating the plastic :? no dashboard fire please mr car.
Using my dual purpose soldering iron / bulb aperture reshaping tool quickly had things in shape again so i should now be able to remove/replace bulbs without ripping the whole dash out and I have not seen a hint of flickering..yet :roll:
I then set about pulling the clocks to pieces to investigate the odometer failure, only gaff here was taking the speedo needle off without first marking which angle it had to go back on at. Obviously I should put it back on at 0mph as I am quite certain my kitchen is fairly stationary, but due to the preload on the angular spring which returns the dial to 0 and presumably dampens the needles motion, I was concerned that after the needle has been removed the spindle would have moved further round. Anyway I put it back on roughly right and I will check the accuracy with my GPS later.
What took most time in this process was stopping myself making car noises and pushing the needle round at ridiculous speeds from 60-120 whilst making a series of authentic saab burbles, turbine whistles and BOV noises. I should have recorded it and put them on youtube - 850BHP Saab 900 3rd and 4th gear pull, 60-120 4.3seconds.
On pulling the speedo apart as much as I dared it became apparent that the ring gear that meshes with the green wormgear out of the speedo drive appeared to be stripped but I had no idea how to get at it without breaking anything so I gave up on that avenue and put it all back together.
After much faffing the dash went back together and although it was very dark and I was tired, I was kept enthused by the constant warming green glow of german efficiency from the VDO gauges. It looks very dim in the pictures but unless I have developed exceptional night vision it is much brighter than it used to be.
i had a wee sleep in one of these just yesterday, a friend of mine has always had 900 and 99's and the 900 carlson he has in the garage is completly stripped, off to the scrappies soon, was working on my spitfire in the same garage and couldnt help but have a nap, its surprising how big they are when they are entirly empty.
great car
great car
So just a couple of small updates...
Bought some steel wheels + hubcaps off another user on here for a good price to put on for the winter so my nice new summer wheel's don't get ruined in the salt and grime. The tyres are actually all legal with a fair amount of tread on and being somewhat narrower than the Yoko's I have on will probably help the car alot getting traction in the snow/slush - if I find I am still struggling I won't hesitate to put a full set of winter boots on it though - anyone have any comments on this, i know c900's are great in winter conditions but is it necessary to get winter M+S tyres?
Gave them a bit of a clean up and a lick of paint - pictures:
think they will look quite nice on the car actually - should I tiewrap the hubcaps to the steels? they feel like a secure fit and arent cheapo aftermarket ones but the amount you see by the roadside makes you think!
Also painted the rocker cover and gave the engine bay a bit of a freshen up - although you wouldn't really know it from the pictures! More work to come in this department I think. Removed the bonnet lining as it was catching on the rocker cover and now the dumpvalve makes a much more satisfying noise and I can hear the turbo spool up alot more, both very important of course. :twisted:
Played taxi's the other day and took the car down to heathrow and back to drop my parents off. Dad drove at a constant 0.80 Leptons the whole way down and I drove back applying skills gained from my recently acquired aerospace engineering degree at a constant 65mph, using a very friendly national express coach driver to punch a hole through the air for me to see what fuel economy I could get out of the thing. There was a huge traffic jam on the way back that scuppered me for 30 mins or so but managed to not keep the engine running for most of this as there was a nice hill to help me out. Managed to average 37 MPG over the whole trip there and back so dead chuffed really considering the best I was hoping for was 30.
A couple of pictures of the 'fleet' as the tomcat is probably going to a new home soon
Next plans are front bumper + Carlsson arches respray, Welding to drivers door, offside front wheel arch and radiator cross member. Gonna pay someone to do all this as I'll only cock it up and have to stare at it the whole time.
Bought some steel wheels + hubcaps off another user on here for a good price to put on for the winter so my nice new summer wheel's don't get ruined in the salt and grime. The tyres are actually all legal with a fair amount of tread on and being somewhat narrower than the Yoko's I have on will probably help the car alot getting traction in the snow/slush - if I find I am still struggling I won't hesitate to put a full set of winter boots on it though - anyone have any comments on this, i know c900's are great in winter conditions but is it necessary to get winter M+S tyres?
Gave them a bit of a clean up and a lick of paint - pictures:
think they will look quite nice on the car actually - should I tiewrap the hubcaps to the steels? they feel like a secure fit and arent cheapo aftermarket ones but the amount you see by the roadside makes you think!
Also painted the rocker cover and gave the engine bay a bit of a freshen up - although you wouldn't really know it from the pictures! More work to come in this department I think. Removed the bonnet lining as it was catching on the rocker cover and now the dumpvalve makes a much more satisfying noise and I can hear the turbo spool up alot more, both very important of course. :twisted:
Played taxi's the other day and took the car down to heathrow and back to drop my parents off. Dad drove at a constant 0.80 Leptons the whole way down and I drove back applying skills gained from my recently acquired aerospace engineering degree at a constant 65mph, using a very friendly national express coach driver to punch a hole through the air for me to see what fuel economy I could get out of the thing. There was a huge traffic jam on the way back that scuppered me for 30 mins or so but managed to not keep the engine running for most of this as there was a nice hill to help me out
. Managed to average 37 MPG over the whole trip there and back so dead chuffed really considering the best I was hoping for was 30.A couple of pictures of the 'fleet' as the tomcat is probably going to a new home soon
Next plans are front bumper + Carlsson arches respray, Welding to drivers door, offside front wheel arch and radiator cross member. Gonna pay someone to do all this as I'll only cock it up and have to stare at it the whole time.
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