2 Door Range Rover project

[DonkeyApple]

I had a couple of chats with Rob about building an engine. It's who I would use if I were sticking with a RV8.

Drove the car back to London from the Cotswolds today. Drove beautifully. Very pleased with it. New tailgate, central locking fixed, passenger window working and aircon sorted.

[DonkeyApple]

Oops. Bought another.

One of the original 400 In Vogues. Got a hamper for it downstairs as well.

[DonkeyApple]

It's really solid it has had a patch done in the bottom of the A pillars which while OK, isn't reLly good enough so I'll get redone by one of the meticulous Rangie guys. The interior is good and just needs a deep clean. Simplest route is to usually take the covers off the seats and take them down the laundrette. It was a weepy clutch and pops out of first gear but I have a perfect clutch and gearbox about to come out of my 2 door. It's also fitted with non original mirrors but the originals are in the boot.

Other than that it was just missing the Woods & Pickett hamper so I set a trigger on Ebay expecting it to be up to a couple of years for one to appear and last week one pooped up that was mint and with nothing missing, so i picked that up yesterday.

I found the car up in Yorkshire while surfing Google looking for the Woods & Picket wood trim that only the In Vogues had. The owner was one of the most pleasant people I've met.

[DonkeyApple]

Moycie said:

That is great. Good work. Looks lovely.

Thanks. I reckon it will take me a couple of years of slow plodding to get it back to original and mint condition by which time I think the market for original In Vogues will have shot up to be more in line with mint Suffix As. So it'll give me free classic motoring. As it'll be kept at the house it'll only get used at weekends for local pottering so hardly any miles will go on it so it'll remain in the low 50s.

[DonkeyApple]

Moycie said:

I certainly do not think you will lose on it. As you say, keep it mint and original, it's sure to be a future desirable. I think the 2 door looks great. Although, I think the 4 door is equally iconic. Finding a good one is getting tougher!

That's for sure. After 89 they used that cheap 16 gauge steel and they just rot.

I think the best Rangie is the early 80s 4 door. It has all the mod cons that you really need and retains the exterior character of the early 2 door, so steel wheels, no body kit/spoilers and vertical grill.

Good ones do crop up every so often but we are definitely into the realms of almost all needing some decent metal work.

I was over at Kingsley the other day and drive their demonstrator. They are turning out exceptional restorations now. It's impressive work and their optional mods are very sympathetic and good.

[DonkeyApple]

Markh said:

Markh said:

I love old RRC's mine has been in the family since new,waxoiled every year so no rot at all, 132k miles, just having a mechanical make over, all bushes, brakes, shocks, springs,etc done what difference that made!, is now with Rob at V8 Developments having a nice 4.8 installed, should be entertaining !

Well have just done my first 500 miles with new engine and although am running it in must confess I am really pleased with the out come, feels strong,

A couple of weeks ago I drove Kingley's 4.8 demonstrator. I don't know if they use Rob but it wouldn't surprise me. That was a good engine. It certainly have the Rangie the performance to bring it up to date.

[DonkeyApple]

Markh said:

DonkeyApple said:

A couple of weeks ago I drove Kingley's 4.8 demonstrator. I don't know if they use Rob but it wouldn't surprise me. That was a good engine. It certainly have the Rangie the performance to bring it up to date.

I think you are right, I seem to remember they did use V8D, just need to finish off a few small bits Rob recommends a smooth bore induction pipe and a different K&N (my one uses the standard tin can air box and he reckons its a bit restrictive). I am now researching the exhaust, due to the larger ports it appears I need tubular headers and a larger bore system my problem is my car is a 92 so still needs cats (don't want the grief I had with MOT when I de catted my old TVR), any thoughts?

Damon at Kingsly has his own stainless system you can buy. It's a thing of beauty. As are the manifolds.

One of the important things to do with the bigger engines is to ensure that the torque curve fits the ZF working ratios. I've driven a couple of 5 Litre conversions where the engines were sublime but desperately needed the right cams to make the most of all that power when mated to the ZF. Although, if you use the electronic HP24 inards in the HP22 case then you could reprogram the change and lock up points to fit?

[DonkeyApple]

Markh said:

DonkeyApple said:

Damon at Kingsly has his own stainless system you can buy. It's a thing of beauty. As are the manifolds.

One of the important things to do with the bigger engines is to ensure that the torque curve fits the ZF working ratios. I've driven a couple of 5 Litre conversions where the engines were sublime but desperately needed the right cams to make the most of all that power when mated to the ZF. Although, if you use the electronic HP24 inards in the HP22 case then you could reprogram the change and lock up points to fit?

Must look at that, not sure about the exhaust looks pricy plus no cats either, Janspeed seem to do set up which looks like does the job, auto box feels okay at present but am being gentle as am running it in............as an ex-overfinch owner, what is your take on the steering?, did over finch use a different steering box?

One of the Overfinch options (that few had) was the Adwest Engineering box.

I'll be fitting one to the 2 door as it made road driving much improved on the OverFinch.

Adwest were bought out last year but the units are still available.

[DonkeyApple]

Markh said:

DonkeyApple said:

Damon at Kingsly has his own stainless system you can buy. It's a thing of beauty. As are the manifolds.

One of the important things to do with the bigger engines is to ensure that the torque curve fits the ZF working ratios. I've driven a couple of 5 Litre conversions where the engines were sublime but desperately needed the right cams to make the most of all that power when mated to the ZF. Although, if you use the electronic HP24 inards in the HP22 case then you could reprogram the change and lock up points to fit?

Must look at that, not sure about the exhaust looks pricy plus no cats either, Janspeed seem to do set up which looks like does the job, auto box feels okay at present but am being gentle as am running it in............as an ex-overfinch owner, what is your take on the steering?, did over finch use a different steering box?

Hi Mark,

This has just gone up on FleaBay: 271586922834

[DonkeyApple]

Markh said:

DonkeyApple said:

Hi Mark,

This has just gone up on FleaBay: 271586922834

Many thanks, isn't it always the way, have just ordered a full Janspeed system..............ah well its only money

I bought a whole car to get one part the other month and two days later that part cropped up in Rbay after two years of waiting!!!!!

[DonkeyApple]

Markh said:

now maybe this is next..........

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51035760457@N01/5484...

More trouble than worth. None of the forced induction RV8 stuff has ever been good enough.

[DonkeyApple]

Markh said:

DonkeyApple said:

More trouble than worth. None of the forced induction RV8 stuff has ever been good enough.

Looks pretty though, did think about CS supercharger set up (seems to wrk with TVR's okay

Seen many Tivs with FI running reliably?

All these kits are cost saving compromises. Either no changing of CR or no use of a smart enough ECU to handle the new variables.

I think when you add a home brew FI then your engine becomes a disposable item.

[DonkeyApple]

Markh said:

I take your point, am looking at some kind of proper ECU (have motec on my porsche, seems to work well), have a friend with the charger kit on a chimaera 500 seems pretty good

I don't know Motec. I use Syvecs on my TVR. It was designed for running FI rivers and is an incredible bit of kit. It makes my engine run incredibly smoothly with no flat spots, will adjust timing for almost any fuel type, detect knock and remove and controls the fans so maintains a constant temp regardless. It's amazing kit and definitely the right product for an FI set up.

There are two or three kits for the RV8 Tivs and one looked at them quite closely for my Rangie project. It was talking to the people offering the kits and seeing the work that made me give up on the RV8 if I wanted to go above 300 bhp and keep usability and reliability.

I definitely wouldn't muck about with a new V8D 4.8.

[DonkeyApple]

vjj said:

Hello chaps

The 4.8 in the kingsley demonstrator is from ACR with a standard cam and heads.

we have just finished a 5.4 litre 2 door for a client in switzerland - engine from V8D - we used kingsley exhaust system but removed the back box and just went straight out.

this is probably the fastest 2 door in the world - and the best

2000 hours - total cost 210000 euros

enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW2LPj3JDY4

Hello. Lovely car that. I was reading about that car the other week. Can't recall if it was on PH or LandyZone.

Zen's 2 door might be quicker though.

[DonkeyApple]

vjj said:

By the way I bought the disco Overfinch at Kingsley
It is a great car - but the manual box is a pain
Currently having Autobox fitted and engine being rebuilt
- stroker crank to 6.3 - edelbrock heads and cam etc.

Excellent. It's a nice car but as we've discussed before the clutch was a bugger.

How much performance do you think is given away by switching from manual to the ZF box?

[DonkeyApple]

vjj said:

None

Cos by the time we finish with the engine it will have
380 bhp and 450lbs of tq

Which would destroy the manual box in a flash

I thought that car had a US box in it. Is it just an R380 then?

I'm in two minds with the 24 internals going into my 22 case whether to stay hydraulic or go electronic. I can't be areas with the compushift but it would have the advantage of increasing the line pressures a little and changing lock up.

[DonkeyApple]

vjj said:

Believe it or not it is an LT77 - with an AP Racing clutch.

I have the Ashcroft stage 2 HP 22 with the 24
internals in my 6.3 defender

I have a huge hewland torque convertor and it
it is perfect so will be doing the same with the disco.

1.2 ratio transfer box.

We have fitted several of them to other big CC cars, both Rover and Chevy
and never had any trouble.

To be honest the compushift is not worth the extra.

What motor are you fitting?

The M113 AMG unit. The uprated Ashcroft box will be fine but every Rangie I've driven with the ZF has a dead spot in the performance in the 50-70 overtaking window.

I am going to use the 1:1 TC as I don't see the need to sit at 3k rpm on the motorway.

[DonkeyApple]

vjj said:

My defender is pulling 90 mph at 3000rpm tyres are 20mm taller than standard.

I think you will find the flat spots are more to do with the ecu's desire to cruise economically than
any gearbox issues

The first thing that mark Adams does on any LR ecu is overwrite that bit of it.

If you go hp24 and merc injection you will need a bespoke system

Very expensive - me can do it though.

Why are you going with the merc engine?

To do something different. It gives the power that I want but without being anywhere near as stressed as building a big RV8. It'll also give better economy and hopefully sound like a Spitfire

An LS will do the job perfectly but it's been done whereas my idea hasn't. The Merc engine is smaller than the LS and I'm surrounded by Merc servicers in London.

If AMG engines are good enough for McLaren and Aston then they're good enough for me.

Whatever engine went in I was always junking all the LR ECU stuff as modern systems like Syvecs are infinitely superior in all ways. I fitted Syvecs to the Typhon and it transformed the engine totally. Having run RV8s in Tivs I can't be arsed when starting from a blank sheet to use such old tech and electronics as I feel modern solutions offer significantly more.

[DonkeyApple]

vjj said:

fully understand.

5.5 AMG motor is epic - nice flat torque curve - especially in the ML55 Version (although 20 hp less)

But torque = accelleration

depending on what parameters are required Mark Adams might be able to get that 5.5 lump to run on GEMS.

I know he has got a couple of efi LS engines and a BMW V8 and V12 to do so.

This would be ideal as it talks to the HP24 ECU in any case.

If you need any help machining a flex plate/torque converter interface get in touch.

Thanks for the offer. If I have any glitches with the chap in using I'll give a shout.

The torque curve seems ideal for a fridge. The Syvecs system will run it and also control fans and other sundries. But I'm planning to run the HP24 internals in non electronic form so it'll be nice and dumb.

[DonkeyApple]

vjj said:

you will be surprised how good the 22/24 hybrid is - as I said before mine drives like a dream.

depending on where the engine sits you may have to mount it a little further back - in any case it is longer than a 22 by 15mm - and you may have to adjust the propshaft lengths

just something to bear in mind.

If using the electronic inards what are the variables that can be adjusted/controlled?

The 15mm isn't an issue as it's all new into the '72 and the AMG engine is actually about 20mm shorter than the RV8.