19 y/o with an S60 T5 - my car history and a belated intro..
Discussion
Synchromesh said:
Well it's now been two weeks since the car went, so perhaps time I scribbled a few words on it.
My justification for buying this car will be one familiar to most on here: man-maths. Well, best laid plans and all that…but in reality OWK wasn't going to be an expensive proposition. I mean the book said it would do 30 to the gallon, and my Polo wasn't bettering that by any tangible margin. Anyway, I could always offset this my doing fewer miles. I did my research and knew they were regarded as reliable things - a few known faults but all easily identifiable. My biggest hit would be insurance (£930 for the 7 months I had it), costing twice what the Polo would have, but that could be paid off then erased from my conscience.
In all, and after 7 months and 10,400 miles (so much for doing fewer miles then), total costs came in at just 43ppm, handily beating the mental barrier of the HMRC approved mileage rate by a mere 2 pence. This has been in part thanks to the car living up to its reliable reputation, only needing a pair of coil packs with new plugs for good measure (£192). By owning the car between scheduled services and MOTs I limited the necessary maintenance to a cam belt and water pump at £280, and consumables to a pair of tyres (Falken ZE912s at £192 for the pair), while six months tax came in at £143. Depriciation-wise, I lost £500 over 7 months, making the proprietorship of the vehicle less expensive than the cheapest lease available on a Citroen C1! Yes, the hit on capital was bigger than it could've been, but this was made up for by low ownership costs in aforementioned departments.
Earlier I mentioned fuel consumption, but I should say I've never been concerned for it being a comparatively thirsty beast. I see using petrol as getting something for your money (namely motive power and a nice noise, but more of that later), whereas depreciation looks like money down the drain. Having said that, OWK wasn't a binger, and came remarkably close to its claimed consumption. Around town I could expect to see mid-20s, while a pacey cross-country run would bring that up to the high-20s. Fast-lane motorway running would see low-30s, but a more restrained (and dare I say legal) pace could yield mid-to-high-30s. My best ever was 40 to the gallon, achieved by crawling along with the heavies in lane one, but my low patience threshold meant this wasn't a regular occourance.
I've done the obligatory pounds and pence bit now so let's get to the interesting part - the car itself. Where to start? Well, perhaps I should preface this by saying I've only held my licence less than three years, so my opinion shouldn't really count for much. Given right now you're probably trying to imagine how it drives we'll start there, and in particular with where you'll be right in your assumptions. To my untrained senses, steering feel was virtually absent. I think this can be put down to an over servo'd PAS system, although this did mean turning the wheel was never strenuous. Contradictorily, the clutch and gearbox were both very heavy, requiring much greater input efforts, and this mismatch and disconnect between control weights always felt like a barrier to having a true connection with the car. One element of the control interface that did excel, though, were the brakes - progressive, confidence inspiring and quite unlike the grabby items on the Polo.
Given the width of the tyres it's no surprise that, on the road, grip wasn't an area where the car was felt wanting. The firmer setup of the T5 meant it could be hustled along quite briskly, and direction changes didn't trouble it, so long as they weren't rushed. While the car felt so at home on the motorway or primary A-road, this composure fell to pieces in town or on a neglected B-road, and this was the one area where the greater development budgets of its german cousins made themselves known. On track, it's mass couldn't be hidden so easily - it's road-orientated setup meaning it couldn't hang on like the more focused saloons, and it defaulted to its natural understeer bias. I didn't discover until close to the end of my ownership period, that it was fitted with Nivomat self-levelling rear suspension, keeping the car's geometry constant whether empty or fully loaded.
Perhaps this car's 'killer-app' though, was it's engine. The revered T5 unit was characterful, and gave me the one feature I was wanting after the Polo - mid-range punch. And in that department, it shone, with a strong linear delivery from under two-thousand revs all the way to the redline.. As I said before, changing gear was never a pleasure in this car, but this was offset by the fact you didn't need to change gear. Third pulled convincingly from 30 to triple figures, making it the default cog for progress. The offbeat idle turning into a crescendo of 'warbbb', overlaid by the harmony of the turbo whistle. Despite the flexibility and noise though, the big turbo meant lag was quite perceptible, and for me this was another barrier to connection between car and driver.
While the ride couldn't match its Bavarian brothers, the interior trounced them into submission. An ergonomic and tidy looking cabin was brought to life with a little Scandinavian flair. Fit and finish were as good as anything I've seen, while little touches like the parking ticket holder showed a thoughtfulness in its design. Gizmos included the standard fare of cruise control, dual zone climate control and an auto-dimming mirror, but also extras including the integrated car phone and a sunroof, and although the former was more of a novelty than anything else, opening to roof on a fine day was something I wished I'd discover sooner. One small gripe was that dual zone controls had to be altered individually, and as my OCD wouldn't let them sit on different settings (I feel this works the HVAC harder than necessary), this meant two adjustments needed to be made rather than one every time I wanted to change the temperature. The 'piece de resistance' of the interior though, were the seats. Heated leather of course, but the most comfortable I've ever sat in - not just in a car, but ever. Coupled to this, the good cabin insulation and the clarity and punch of the Dolby Pro-Logic system made long journeys effortless, but also made me wonder how good the 'Premium' sound system must have to be to justify itself as an upgrade...
Overall thoughts then - a good car but not a great one. In truth, I felt the car was confused about what it wanted to be - neither the supple barge the seats and steering suggested, nor the hot hatch it's engine so adamantly wanted to tell me it'd escaped from. With a more compliant ride (perhaps non-T5 suspension and smaller wheels would do it?) and an auto box, it would make a fine cruiser indeed. Alternatively, adding some steering feel and removing that lag would turn it great sports saloon. Either way, I'm probably being too harsh on it. Subtle yet neat design inside and out (think IKEA, but without the bit where it's built by an enthusiastic yet inept bloke with an Allen key), an unparalleled interior, capable chassis and a flexible engine meant this was a car I knew I'd enjoy owning. I did of course, so much so that it was taken on numerous trip to South Wales' finest bits of tarmac (B4560, A4059, A4069, etc.), abroad (France) and on track (Castle Combe), but after nearly half a circumference of the globe, it was time to see it go. I wasn't the only one seduced by it's capability and design, so it's staying in the family, where I'm sure it'll perform its next 200k miles with aplomb.
Hope you've all enjoyed this thread. Don't hold your breath, but there will be a replacement in due course...
Great write-up, yes I enjoyed the thread very much My justification for buying this car will be one familiar to most on here: man-maths. Well, best laid plans and all that…but in reality OWK wasn't going to be an expensive proposition. I mean the book said it would do 30 to the gallon, and my Polo wasn't bettering that by any tangible margin. Anyway, I could always offset this my doing fewer miles. I did my research and knew they were regarded as reliable things - a few known faults but all easily identifiable. My biggest hit would be insurance (£930 for the 7 months I had it), costing twice what the Polo would have, but that could be paid off then erased from my conscience.
In all, and after 7 months and 10,400 miles (so much for doing fewer miles then), total costs came in at just 43ppm, handily beating the mental barrier of the HMRC approved mileage rate by a mere 2 pence. This has been in part thanks to the car living up to its reliable reputation, only needing a pair of coil packs with new plugs for good measure (£192). By owning the car between scheduled services and MOTs I limited the necessary maintenance to a cam belt and water pump at £280, and consumables to a pair of tyres (Falken ZE912s at £192 for the pair), while six months tax came in at £143. Depriciation-wise, I lost £500 over 7 months, making the proprietorship of the vehicle less expensive than the cheapest lease available on a Citroen C1! Yes, the hit on capital was bigger than it could've been, but this was made up for by low ownership costs in aforementioned departments.
Earlier I mentioned fuel consumption, but I should say I've never been concerned for it being a comparatively thirsty beast. I see using petrol as getting something for your money (namely motive power and a nice noise, but more of that later), whereas depreciation looks like money down the drain. Having said that, OWK wasn't a binger, and came remarkably close to its claimed consumption. Around town I could expect to see mid-20s, while a pacey cross-country run would bring that up to the high-20s. Fast-lane motorway running would see low-30s, but a more restrained (and dare I say legal) pace could yield mid-to-high-30s. My best ever was 40 to the gallon, achieved by crawling along with the heavies in lane one, but my low patience threshold meant this wasn't a regular occourance.
I've done the obligatory pounds and pence bit now so let's get to the interesting part - the car itself. Where to start? Well, perhaps I should preface this by saying I've only held my licence less than three years, so my opinion shouldn't really count for much. Given right now you're probably trying to imagine how it drives we'll start there, and in particular with where you'll be right in your assumptions. To my untrained senses, steering feel was virtually absent. I think this can be put down to an over servo'd PAS system, although this did mean turning the wheel was never strenuous. Contradictorily, the clutch and gearbox were both very heavy, requiring much greater input efforts, and this mismatch and disconnect between control weights always felt like a barrier to having a true connection with the car. One element of the control interface that did excel, though, were the brakes - progressive, confidence inspiring and quite unlike the grabby items on the Polo.
Given the width of the tyres it's no surprise that, on the road, grip wasn't an area where the car was felt wanting. The firmer setup of the T5 meant it could be hustled along quite briskly, and direction changes didn't trouble it, so long as they weren't rushed. While the car felt so at home on the motorway or primary A-road, this composure fell to pieces in town or on a neglected B-road, and this was the one area where the greater development budgets of its german cousins made themselves known. On track, it's mass couldn't be hidden so easily - it's road-orientated setup meaning it couldn't hang on like the more focused saloons, and it defaulted to its natural understeer bias. I didn't discover until close to the end of my ownership period, that it was fitted with Nivomat self-levelling rear suspension, keeping the car's geometry constant whether empty or fully loaded.
Perhaps this car's 'killer-app' though, was it's engine. The revered T5 unit was characterful, and gave me the one feature I was wanting after the Polo - mid-range punch. And in that department, it shone, with a strong linear delivery from under two-thousand revs all the way to the redline.. As I said before, changing gear was never a pleasure in this car, but this was offset by the fact you didn't need to change gear. Third pulled convincingly from 30 to triple figures, making it the default cog for progress. The offbeat idle turning into a crescendo of 'warbbb', overlaid by the harmony of the turbo whistle. Despite the flexibility and noise though, the big turbo meant lag was quite perceptible, and for me this was another barrier to connection between car and driver.
While the ride couldn't match its Bavarian brothers, the interior trounced them into submission. An ergonomic and tidy looking cabin was brought to life with a little Scandinavian flair. Fit and finish were as good as anything I've seen, while little touches like the parking ticket holder showed a thoughtfulness in its design. Gizmos included the standard fare of cruise control, dual zone climate control and an auto-dimming mirror, but also extras including the integrated car phone and a sunroof, and although the former was more of a novelty than anything else, opening to roof on a fine day was something I wished I'd discover sooner. One small gripe was that dual zone controls had to be altered individually, and as my OCD wouldn't let them sit on different settings (I feel this works the HVAC harder than necessary), this meant two adjustments needed to be made rather than one every time I wanted to change the temperature. The 'piece de resistance' of the interior though, were the seats. Heated leather of course, but the most comfortable I've ever sat in - not just in a car, but ever. Coupled to this, the good cabin insulation and the clarity and punch of the Dolby Pro-Logic system made long journeys effortless, but also made me wonder how good the 'Premium' sound system must have to be to justify itself as an upgrade...
Overall thoughts then - a good car but not a great one. In truth, I felt the car was confused about what it wanted to be - neither the supple barge the seats and steering suggested, nor the hot hatch it's engine so adamantly wanted to tell me it'd escaped from. With a more compliant ride (perhaps non-T5 suspension and smaller wheels would do it?) and an auto box, it would make a fine cruiser indeed. Alternatively, adding some steering feel and removing that lag would turn it great sports saloon. Either way, I'm probably being too harsh on it. Subtle yet neat design inside and out (think IKEA, but without the bit where it's built by an enthusiastic yet inept bloke with an Allen key), an unparalleled interior, capable chassis and a flexible engine meant this was a car I knew I'd enjoy owning. I did of course, so much so that it was taken on numerous trip to South Wales' finest bits of tarmac (B4560, A4059, A4069, etc.), abroad (France) and on track (Castle Combe), but after nearly half a circumference of the globe, it was time to see it go. I wasn't the only one seduced by it's capability and design, so it's staying in the family, where I'm sure it'll perform its next 200k miles with aplomb.
Hope you've all enjoyed this thread. Don't hold your breath, but there will be a replacement in due course...
Thank you for taking the time.
Synchromesh said:
While the ride couldn't match its Bavarian brothers, the interior trounced them into submission. An ergonomic and tidy looking cabin was brought to life with a little Scandinavian flair.
Whilst I generally stick up for the S60 as an excellent, underrated car, this doesn't seem right to me. Either the 'Bavarian Brothers' you refer to are an old VW Polo or you've not been in many German cars! Notwithstanding the fact that only BMW hail from the Bavaria region IIRC. The S60 interior is a great piece of design, typically Swedish in it's ergonomic appeal but even the last of the T5's with the poshest interior materials still feels a bit 'cheap' and utilitarian next to the German competition, even if you compare it to some of the slightly dodgy offerings from Germany over the last decade.
You mention the S60's apparent identity crisis. IMO, it is typical Volvo design. Not overly concerned with market trends, not overly concerned with fashion, just designed to do a job and do it well. It never had any pretension of being a luxury car, or a hot hatch. I tend to think of the S60 T5 as more of a tool. Ideal for police forces looking for cheap, fast saloons and the like. It was also supposed to be the car that launched Volvo into a younger market. I don't know how successful that was in the long term though...
Overall, nice cars and definitely worth investigating.
Baryonyx said:
You mention the S60's apparent identity crisis. IMO, it is typical Volvo design. Not overly concerned with market trends, not overly concerned with fashion, just designed to do a job and do it well. It never had any pretension of being a luxury car, or a hot hatch. I tend to think of the S60 T5 as more of a tool. Ideal for police forces looking for cheap, fast saloons and the like. It was also supposed to be the car that launched Volvo into a younger market. I don't know how successful that was in the long term though...
Overall, nice cars and definitely worth investigating.
Well said...Volvo just do what they do (and on a whole, do it well) they care not for trends or fashion. Overall, nice cars and definitely worth investigating.
Waugh-terfall said:
Synchromesh said:
...aplomb.
I was told to take this word out of my CV because nobody uses it. 
y2blade said:
Great write-up, yes I enjoyed the thread very much
Thank you for taking the time.
Glad you enjoyed it Mr Blade! It was strangely satisfying to keep a journal on it.Thank you for taking the time.
Baryonyx said:
Whilst I generally stick up for the S60 as an excellent, underrated car, this doesn't seem right to me. Either the 'Bavarian Brothers' you refer to are an old VW Polo or you've not been in many German cars! Notwithstanding the fact that only BMW hail from the Bavaria region IIRC.
The S60 interior is a great piece of design, typically Swedish in it's ergonomic appeal but even the last of the T5's with the poshest interior materials still feels a bit 'cheap' and utilitarian next to the German competition, even if you compare it to some of the slightly dodgy offerings from Germany over the last decade.
I was referring to BMWs, for which, in my experience, I've always found the interiors rather underwhelming.The S60 interior is a great piece of design, typically Swedish in it's ergonomic appeal but even the last of the T5's with the poshest interior materials still feels a bit 'cheap' and utilitarian next to the German competition, even if you compare it to some of the slightly dodgy offerings from Germany over the last decade.
Baryonyx said:
You mention the S60's apparent identity crisis. IMO, it is typical Volvo design. Not overly concerned with market trends, not overly concerned with fashion, just designed to do a job and do it well. It never had any pretension of being a luxury car, or a hot hatch. I tend to think of the S60 T5 as more of a tool. Ideal for police forces looking for cheap, fast saloons and the like. It was also supposed to be the car that launched Volvo into a younger market. I don't know how successful that was in the long term though...
I guess I thought of the S60 as more than just "a tool". Surely it did have pretensions of having elements of luxury car in that it was targeted somewhere between the compact and full-size executive classes of car, rather than as a Mondeo alternative. In fact, it was part of Ford group's badge engineering to keep Volvo as a step up from Ford as part of the PAG (yes I know the S60 was conceived pre-Ford, but the point remains).I terms of launching the brand into a younger market, I guess they suceeded with me (and PHer Adam)!
williredale said:
I enjoyed the thread and write up. Thank you for posting.
What next then?
Thanks for reading. Well one of my key requirements when choosing this was that I needed something with a sensible number of doors. This aspect is now less of a factor so I'll be looking for something 'sporty', track-day-able, but cheap to run. Thinking along the lines of an MX5, MR2, GTV6 or BMW 328i, all of which have their pros and cons. Alternatively, I might just get something that appeals on a particular day, if it's at an attractive price.What next then?
Fubar1977 said:
Thank you Syncro. I think yours is some of the best quality writing I have seen on an internet forum. Really enjoyed reading it, particularly as an S60 owner myself.
PH Towers, are you listening...Synchromesh said:
Stedman said:
Volvo's just aren't comfortable-nor meant to be- driven at anything more than 7/10ths.
Still a nice daily driver though that you can have a fun drive in on Monday and 600 miles in on Tuesday. (Well, maybe a D5
)
Very true, as I found out. It really was in its natural habitat on the 600 mile round trip to Lille I took it on a few months back. And please don't mention the dirty D word Still a nice daily driver though that you can have a fun drive in on Monday and 600 miles in on Tuesday. (Well, maybe a D5
)muckymotor said:
A friend of mine has an S70 classic T5 and it's pretty good on track and has certainly suprised a few people with its pace. It's an ex police car though so upgraded suspension and brakes.
My V70 T5 will be hitting Cadwell soon and I'm hoping the grunt down the straights will make up for the cornering ability. I am fitting upgraded suspension first though so that should improve things. Having driven Cadwell in an e36 m3, vx220 and a mk1 Escort it'll be interesting to see how it compares.
Don't forget the S60T5 is only about 175bhp/ton, so the the V70 will be worse still, so you won't be catching much up, even on the straights. Still, it's nice to know your own car at its limits.My V70 T5 will be hitting Cadwell soon and I'm hoping the grunt down the straights will make up for the cornering ability. I am fitting upgraded suspension first though so that should improve things. Having driven Cadwell in an e36 m3, vx220 and a mk1 Escort it'll be interesting to see how it compares.
I was really impressed to be honest and the Volvo never missed a beat although it did have a raging thirst.
And a short appearance I found on youtube, 21.05 onwards http://youtu.be/pv6APdb6uN8?t=20m45s
muckymotor said:
Just thought I'd add to this that the track day at Cadwell went great and the car caught and passed quite a few cars
I was really impressed to be honest and the Volvo never missed a beat although it did have a raging thirst.
And a short appearance I found on youtube, 21.05 onwards http://youtu.be/pv6APdb6uN8?t=20m45s
Looks like you had a good session, and I like the plate - quite fancied a T5 prefix myself but knew I wouldn't be keeping the car long.I was really impressed to be honest and the Volvo never missed a beat although it did have a raging thirst.
And a short appearance I found on youtube, 21.05 onwards http://youtu.be/pv6APdb6uN8?t=20m45s
Synchromesh said:
Looks like you had a good session, and I like the plate - quite fancied a T5 prefix myself but knew I wouldn't be keeping the car long.
I'm looking at reg's myself, ideally I want M5, but I'm not paying £0000s, T5 was the next best, almost as bloody bad! X5 is unavailable, so i guess T55 it is then!A few pics of the S60 in the snow yesterday, just before I spent 10 minutes shovelling snow and ice off the road so I could get it out of the space!
Have to admit that despite my assumptions that its Swedish pedigree would give it some snow driving prowess, it was rather hopeless. I think this is down to the hyperactive traction control, lumpy big-blower power delivery and the fact that it's shod with Falken 912s, which are hardly known for being a good winter performer.
S60 snow 1 by jlewisbarned, on Flickr
S60 snow 2 by jlewisbarned, on Flickr
And finally, I know this will split opinions (actually it probably won't - you'll unanimously dislike it) but...
a)...the car actually been taken on a track day there, unlike the majority of 'ring stickers
b)...only the cognoscenti will understand the reference
c)...I was bored.
IMG_0598 by jlewisbarned, on Flickr
Have to admit that despite my assumptions that its Swedish pedigree would give it some snow driving prowess, it was rather hopeless. I think this is down to the hyperactive traction control, lumpy big-blower power delivery and the fact that it's shod with Falken 912s, which are hardly known for being a good winter performer.
S60 snow 1 by jlewisbarned, on Flickr
S60 snow 2 by jlewisbarned, on Flickr
And finally, I know this will split opinions (actually it probably won't - you'll unanimously dislike it) but...
a)...the car actually been taken on a track day there, unlike the majority of 'ring stickers
b)...only the cognoscenti will understand the reference
c)...I was bored.
IMG_0598 by jlewisbarned, on Flickr
Synchromesh said:
I know this will split opinions (actually it probably won't - you'll unanimously dislike it) but...
a)...the car actually been taken on a track day there, unlike the majority of 'ring stickers
b)...only the cognoscenti will understand the reference
c)...I was bored.
IMG_0598 by jlewisbarned, on Flickr
Are you going to add stickers of other tracks as you do them? a)...the car actually been taken on a track day there, unlike the majority of 'ring stickers
b)...only the cognoscenti will understand the reference
c)...I was bored.
IMG_0598 by jlewisbarned, on Flickr
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