I've scratched a 25 year itch - My new '71 Mk3 Cooper S
Discussion
lowering a hydro car is fairly easy
1) make sure all the knuckle joints are ok and the pressure is correct - take your measurements so that you know what you are looking to add/remove from the steel mushrooms.
2) experiment by letting a little bit of pressure out (disconect the shocks). go round the block carefully, then remeasure - this will help you understand the ratios. once it 'looks right' and you work out the differences in heights with the 5:1 and 3:1 rear/front you will know 'roughly' what you want to chop off.
3) strip the steel mushrooms from the front displacers (top arm out job really) and the small rod tubes from the rear (drop the retention springs to lower the arms) - machine to suit
4) reassemble and re pressurise - your car will now be at the 'right' height - if your sly you can machine more from the steel mushrooms, then 'trim' the car by adding packing washers (just like on a dry car)
i would also remove the spax and try a standard set of shocks (or at least turn the spax right down), you may find them too hard.
i would also consider a rear anti roll bar, the shocks will help with the fore and aft pitch, the rear arb will help with the rear roll.
with a little (ok, a fair bit!) of messing, you will have a really sweet handleing car.
i went out in a fully restored mk3 s a couple of weeks ago and it was fantastic!
1) make sure all the knuckle joints are ok and the pressure is correct - take your measurements so that you know what you are looking to add/remove from the steel mushrooms.
2) experiment by letting a little bit of pressure out (disconect the shocks). go round the block carefully, then remeasure - this will help you understand the ratios. once it 'looks right' and you work out the differences in heights with the 5:1 and 3:1 rear/front you will know 'roughly' what you want to chop off.
3) strip the steel mushrooms from the front displacers (top arm out job really) and the small rod tubes from the rear (drop the retention springs to lower the arms) - machine to suit
4) reassemble and re pressurise - your car will now be at the 'right' height - if your sly you can machine more from the steel mushrooms, then 'trim' the car by adding packing washers (just like on a dry car)
i would also remove the spax and try a standard set of shocks (or at least turn the spax right down), you may find them too hard.
i would also consider a rear anti roll bar, the shocks will help with the fore and aft pitch, the rear arb will help with the rear roll.
with a little (ok, a fair bit!) of messing, you will have a really sweet handleing car.
i went out in a fully restored mk3 s a couple of weeks ago and it was fantastic!
guru_1071 said:
lowering a hydro car is fairly easy
1) make sure all the knuckle joints are ok and the pressure is correct - take your measurements so that you know what you are looking to add/remove from the steel mushrooms.
2) experiment by letting a little bit of pressure out (disconect the shocks). go round the block carefully, then remeasure - this will help you understand the ratios. once it 'looks right' and you work out the differences in heights with the 5:1 and 3:1 rear/front you will know 'roughly' what you want to chop off.
3) strip the steel mushrooms from the front displacers (top arm out job really) and the small rod tubes from the rear (drop the retention springs to lower the arms) - machine to suit
4) reassemble and re pressurise - your car will now be at the 'right' height - if your sly you can machine more from the steel mushrooms, then 'trim' the car by adding packing washers (just like on a dry car)
i would also remove the spax and try a standard set of shocks (or at least turn the spax right down), you may find them too hard.
i would also consider a rear anti roll bar, the shocks will help with the fore and aft pitch, the rear arb will help with the rear roll.
with a little (ok, a fair bit!) of messing, you will have a really sweet handleing car.
i went out in a fully restored mk3 s a couple of weeks ago and it was fantastic!
You seem the man for the job! Have you got a hydropump? I've been told to employ some minispares competition bumpstops all round too.1) make sure all the knuckle joints are ok and the pressure is correct - take your measurements so that you know what you are looking to add/remove from the steel mushrooms.
2) experiment by letting a little bit of pressure out (disconect the shocks). go round the block carefully, then remeasure - this will help you understand the ratios. once it 'looks right' and you work out the differences in heights with the 5:1 and 3:1 rear/front you will know 'roughly' what you want to chop off.
3) strip the steel mushrooms from the front displacers (top arm out job really) and the small rod tubes from the rear (drop the retention springs to lower the arms) - machine to suit
4) reassemble and re pressurise - your car will now be at the 'right' height - if your sly you can machine more from the steel mushrooms, then 'trim' the car by adding packing washers (just like on a dry car)
i would also remove the spax and try a standard set of shocks (or at least turn the spax right down), you may find them too hard.
i would also consider a rear anti roll bar, the shocks will help with the fore and aft pitch, the rear arb will help with the rear roll.
with a little (ok, a fair bit!) of messing, you will have a really sweet handleing car.
i went out in a fully restored mk3 s a couple of weeks ago and it was fantastic!
FWDRacer said:
Peter Baldwin is still going strong. Get the car to him to have the motor set-up properly.
Car needs to be lowered a bit - but 3/4 inch should sort it and you'll get most of the camber required by default as the car is lowered. Has the suspesion got Neg camber bottom arms on it? From the pics I'd suggest not so you you might need to add 'em to your shopping list.
REF your clutch slip. Standard new plate and orange diaphragm spring will address and be totally road usable.
Lovely Mk III S by the way.
Thanks. I think it has standard arms.Car needs to be lowered a bit - but 3/4 inch should sort it and you'll get most of the camber required by default as the car is lowered. Has the suspesion got Neg camber bottom arms on it? From the pics I'd suggest not so you you might need to add 'em to your shopping list.
REF your clutch slip. Standard new plate and orange diaphragm spring will address and be totally road usable.
Lovely Mk III S by the way.
Edited by FWDRacer on Monday 26th March 09:51
Worth going for this too?
http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=pb&p...
P50 said:
You seem the man for the job! Have you got a hydropump? I've been told to employ some minispares competition bumpstops all round too.
the hydro comp bumpstops are not suitable for a road car, particually if it has been lowered. they where designed for use on rally cars to support the suspension in a usable state if a displacer / pipe burst, so that the car would finish the rally. they are better thought of as 'miniture emergency rubber doughnuts' than a bump stop!many people fit them to road cars with no thought of what will happen to the suspension when its 'locked out' with a large rubber bumpstop - the fitment of these to the rear can make cars very very tail happy!
if you feel that you must fit them, you will have to cut them down to allow for a reasonable amount of suspension travel (particually at the rear)- its also important that the rubbers are fitted the correct way to the brackets - nearly all the ones i see fitted are normally upside down on the brackets!
they are one of those things that people will always recomend the fitment of just because they have 'competition' printed on the bag.......
WOW that is a lovely MKIII S simply stunning. I love the colour and it looks very familar but judgeinh by the stickers its done a fair few shows.
I have a set of Dunlup D1's siting in the garage waiting to be refurbed and to be fitted to my '69 MKII Morris SDL
Here a picture of my 2
And one of our small fleet (we have 2 more a 63 smooth roofed Min Van and a 68 Cooper awaiting resteration when funds allow)
I have a set of Dunlup D1's siting in the garage waiting to be refurbed and to be fitted to my '69 MKII Morris SDL
Here a picture of my 2
And one of our small fleet (we have 2 more a 63 smooth roofed Min Van and a 68 Cooper awaiting resteration when funds allow)
guru_1071 said:
the hydro comp bumpstops are not suitable for a road car, particually if it has been lowered. they where designed for use on rally cars to support the suspension in a usable state if a displacer / pipe burst, so that the car would finish the rally. they are better thought of as 'miniture emergency rubber doughnuts' than a bump stop!
many people fit them to road cars with no thought of what will happen to the suspension when its 'locked out' with a large rubber bumpstop - the fitment of these to the rear can make cars very very tail happy!
if you feel that you must fit them, you will have to cut them down to allow for a reasonable amount of suspension travel (particually at the rear)- its also important that the rubbers are fitted the correct way to the brackets - nearly all the ones i see fitted are normally upside down on the brackets!
they are one of those things that people will always recomend the fitment of just because they have 'competition' printed on the bag.......
This is the problem. Conflicting advice. I'll leave the whole thing as it is save dialing it in.many people fit them to road cars with no thought of what will happen to the suspension when its 'locked out' with a large rubber bumpstop - the fitment of these to the rear can make cars very very tail happy!
if you feel that you must fit them, you will have to cut them down to allow for a reasonable amount of suspension travel (particually at the rear)- its also important that the rubbers are fitted the correct way to the brackets - nearly all the ones i see fitted are normally upside down on the brackets!
they are one of those things that people will always recomend the fitment of just because they have 'competition' printed on the bag.......
I suspect these comp hydro bumpstops stop the yaw as one pulls away.
Let's face it, hydrolastic is something you can knock your pipe out to make work on a racetrack. But it will never be as good as a dry set up. Hydro was designed for comfort on the road. In that respect in a 1098 Clubman driven by a midwife in '71 it worked fine.
But the ideal solution is to bin the whole sorry lot and replace with cones.
My S has to keep wet as it's survived 41 years with it. Simples!
Edited by P50 on Friday 30th March 03:52
Small wheels are the best wheels.P50 said:
On what grounds?
It's not Über lightened. Simply optimised for fast road work.
On the grounds you aren't changing cam profile, final drive ratio and all the other items that see the greatest benefit from investment in a lightened flywheel It's not Über lightened. Simply optimised for fast road work.
I'd be spending money on Dinitrol/other rust prevention to keep that beautiful mini rot free and looking it's best. But that is just me I guess.
FWDRacer said:
On the grounds you aren't changing cam profile, final drive ratio and all the other items that see the greatest benefit from investment in a lightened flywheel
I'd be spending money on Dinitrol/other rust prevention to keep that beautiful mini rot free and looking it's best. But that is just me I guess.
Noted. However the history shows the motor has a fast road cam fitted. I understand a lightened flywheel is like knocking 90lbs off the weight of the car.I'd be spending money on Dinitrol/other rust prevention to keep that beautiful mini rot free and looking it's best. But that is just me I guess.
Minispares say this and it appears to be a mod that stands alone. But I'm happy to be corrected naturally. I'm only using the data I've gleaned from their site.
Radius of gyration of a transverse engine's flywheel is approx. 3.75" So to determine "weight loss" for a flywheel weight of say 18 lb to 10 lb, the engine would see an overall weight loss of the car to accelerate in first gear of: 3.33 = 1st gear of 4 synchro 'S' box 3.44 = diff ratio (0.5 x (3.33 x 3.34)2 x 3.752 + 9.52) / 9.52 = (0.5 x 131.2 x 14.06 + 90.25) / 90.25 = 1012.59 / 90.25 = 11.22 lbs So for every 1 lb removed from the flywheel, the engine sees 11.22 lbs less to accelerate off of the total car. Therefore by lightening the flywheel by 8 lb, the engine sees a total reduction of the cars accelerative weight of 89.68 lb.
Edited by P50 on Friday 30th March 12:23
Edited by P50 on Friday 30th March 12:36
stunning little car, superb!
can anyone discribe to me how does a genuine Cooper S mk1-3 drive compared to a really good late model Cooper Sport? My dad (and mum) used to race and rally mini's and as a kid I was always being driven around in Cooper S. I never had the chance to drive one, but have owned a couple of nice 2000 reg Cooper Sport models.
can anyone discribe to me how does a genuine Cooper S mk1-3 drive compared to a really good late model Cooper Sport? My dad (and mum) used to race and rally mini's and as a kid I was always being driven around in Cooper S. I never had the chance to drive one, but have owned a couple of nice 2000 reg Cooper Sport models.
rallycross said:
stunning little car, superb!
can anyone discribe to me how does a genuine Cooper S mk1-3 drive compared to a really good late model Cooper Sport? My dad (and mum) used to race and rally mini's and as a kid I was always being driven around in Cooper S. I never had the chance to drive one, but have owned a couple of nice 2000 reg Cooper Sport models.
Thanks very much. I'm pleased with it!can anyone discribe to me how does a genuine Cooper S mk1-3 drive compared to a really good late model Cooper Sport? My dad (and mum) used to race and rally mini's and as a kid I was always being driven around in Cooper S. I never had the chance to drive one, but have owned a couple of nice 2000 reg Cooper Sport models.
As for old versus new then I would say a Cooper 1275S blows it away. They handle much better on ten inch wheels. The remote change box in my view is much better than the rod change. The subframe is bolted to the shell and not on rubber. The S engine is a racing engine and lends itself to upgrades although the A+ is fine generally.
Oh and you're driving the real thing. A proper Cooper S! no wood, no leather, no air bags, no oversized wheels etc etc.
I suspect in years to come the genuine 1275S's will really increase in value over and above a Rover Cooper.. In fact a decent S is well over 20 grand these days I think..
rallycross said:
stunning little car, superb!
can anyone discribe to me how does a genuine Cooper S mk1-3 drive compared to a really good late model Cooper Sport? My dad (and mum) used to race and rally mini's and as a kid I was always being driven around in Cooper S. I never had the chance to drive one, but have owned a couple of nice 2000 reg Cooper Sport models.
chalk and cheesecan anyone discribe to me how does a genuine Cooper S mk1-3 drive compared to a really good late model Cooper Sport? My dad (and mum) used to race and rally mini's and as a kid I was always being driven around in Cooper S. I never had the chance to drive one, but have owned a couple of nice 2000 reg Cooper Sport models.
mk3 s - very bare inside, so light and airy, very positive on the steering and fairly lusty thanks to the gearing.
sportspack - massive seats and stuff make it very tight inside, heavy poor steering thanks to the big 13" wheels, quite and slow acceleration, but with a good top speed thanks to the tall gearing.
id take a 10" wheeled 60'70's spec mini over a numb mpi any day of the week!
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