1992 309 Goodwood impulse buy
Discussion
Quick update for today. Didn't have much time out in the garage so didn't attempt the exhaust with all it's rusty bolts, but instead decided to start sorting some of the things which will make the car easier to live with. First on that list was the locks - the car came with 2 keys (one for the doors, one for the ignition and nothing for the boot), and the passenger door lock didn't even work. Not ideal when I eventually want to start taking the car out. Now, I sorted the remote locking quite a while ago by canibalising some parts from a 405, but I also want all the locks working off one key.
So job today was to sort the drivers lock. It's had some crappy, cheap non-OEM locks fitted at some point, but I've sourced a full set of standard locks on 1 key (albeit second hand). After messing around with the Leon's and Monaro's inner door working in the last few months the 309 was a joy to work. Just look at the access:
Removing the lock is a simple case of popping this clip off:
Add with a bit of wiggling to get the control leaver off the lock is out. Reassembly is the reversal of removal as Mr Haynes would say, and that's one door done. Only one slight problem is that I've now made the key situation worse:
Eventually I'll just be left with one remote key though, which will be nice. Should get that sorted next time I get out to the garage.
A couple of things that narked me whilst doing this though, in every 205 or 309 I've owned why is there always a sticky mess in the door pocket(!):
Nasty! Luckily some carb cleaner dissolved it enough to clean up though. And the other thing that annoyed me is that over the years previous owners have clearly had the door apart (and other parts of the interior), but have either lost or rounded screw heads so the screws holding the trim together are either missing or all different shapes and sizes and some don't even fit. I've replaced a few of them with some spares I found in the garage from previous Peugeots/Citroens but I think I'm going have to make a trip to Peugeot to try and get hold of a correct set of screws to hold the interior together properly! Possibly a bit of automotive OCD creeping in there??
On the plus side the list of jobs is finally getting smaller, and with a bit of luck I should hopefully have it road legal and usable by Wilton House (4th August)
So job today was to sort the drivers lock. It's had some crappy, cheap non-OEM locks fitted at some point, but I've sourced a full set of standard locks on 1 key (albeit second hand). After messing around with the Leon's and Monaro's inner door working in the last few months the 309 was a joy to work. Just look at the access:
Removing the lock is a simple case of popping this clip off:
Add with a bit of wiggling to get the control leaver off the lock is out. Reassembly is the reversal of removal as Mr Haynes would say, and that's one door done. Only one slight problem is that I've now made the key situation worse:
Eventually I'll just be left with one remote key though, which will be nice. Should get that sorted next time I get out to the garage.
A couple of things that narked me whilst doing this though, in every 205 or 309 I've owned why is there always a sticky mess in the door pocket(!):
Nasty! Luckily some carb cleaner dissolved it enough to clean up though. And the other thing that annoyed me is that over the years previous owners have clearly had the door apart (and other parts of the interior), but have either lost or rounded screw heads so the screws holding the trim together are either missing or all different shapes and sizes and some don't even fit. I've replaced a few of them with some spares I found in the garage from previous Peugeots/Citroens but I think I'm going have to make a trip to Peugeot to try and get hold of a correct set of screws to hold the interior together properly! Possibly a bit of automotive OCD creeping in there??
On the plus side the list of jobs is finally getting smaller, and with a bit of luck I should hopefully have it road legal and usable by Wilton House (4th August)
Following this with interest, as I love a good 309! Seems like you are confident with spanners too - something I need to learn more of!
Regarding the engine conversion - have you been in any with a gti6 engine? I converted my 205 to gti6 and whilst the power is fantastic, IMO it doesn't quite handle in the same way as it did before, may just be me though....
keep up the good work!
Regarding the engine conversion - have you been in any with a gti6 engine? I converted my 205 to gti6 and whilst the power is fantastic, IMO it doesn't quite handle in the same way as it did before, may just be me though....
keep up the good work!
205pat said:
Following this with interest, as I love a good 309! Seems like you are confident with spanners too - something I need to learn more of!
Regarding the engine conversion - have you been in any with a gti6 engine? I converted my 205 to gti6 and whilst the power is fantastic, IMO it doesn't quite handle in the same way as it did before, may just be me though....
keep up the good work!
You need to change the spring rates when you drop in the 306 boat anchor but once you've done that the handling is fine in my experience. I was running Eibach lowering springs with a 306 engine and they were far too soft.Regarding the engine conversion - have you been in any with a gti6 engine? I converted my 205 to gti6 and whilst the power is fantastic, IMO it doesn't quite handle in the same way as it did before, may just be me though....
keep up the good work!
205pat said:
Following this with interest, as I love a good 309! Seems like you are confident with spanners too - something I need to learn more of!
My Dad was a Peugeot / Citroen mechanic so I grew up round cars like this. I think I was yielding a spanner pretty much as soon as I could walk. Saying that, I'm certainly no expert, but I'll give most things a go where the oily bits are involved. I try to avoid bodywork and welding at all costs!205pat said:
Regarding the engine conversion - have you been in any with a gti6 engine? I converted my 205 to gti6 and whilst the power is fantastic, IMO it doesn't quite handle in the same way as it did before, may just be me though....
I've been out in an Mi16 powered car and although it was a few years ago I remember that being pretty quick and handled well. Although the Mi16 has an ally block, whereas the GTi6 is cast iron so could well make a difference, as shalmaneser says.How did you find the GTi6 conversion? Easy job or bit of a PITA?
TBH I'd happily go the Mi16 route if a decent engine came up, but I've had some unexpected home improvement bills over the last few months so the engine swap will have to go on hold for now. For the time-being I'll just concentrate on getting the car roadworthy.
Edited by CarlosV8 on Thursday 30th May 22:27
Whilst i'm sat on the sofa waiting for the safety car to go in at Le Mans, I thought I'd post a quick update.
Passenger door lock is now swapped too, but discovered the boot lock is riveted in so that halted play as I need to buy some new drill bits to get it out, and then a rivet gun to put it back in. Shouldn't be a hard job though.
With a brief spell of sunshine this morning I thought I'd try and get the exhaust done. I bought the cheapeast one I could find just get it sorted for now, as if I get round to doing an engine conversion another new exhaust will be needed anyway. All come off without too much trouble, but when I compared the exhausts it was easy to see why it was cheap:
The new one is missing the split in the downpipe, so won't give the beneficial effects of the 4-2-1 downpipe that an OEM one has. Not sure what the impact will be - maybe a bit lost from the top end? However, the dividing bit of metal in the old one was coming away and partially blocking the exhaust anyway, so the new one's got to be better than that!!
Ideally the back box needs replacing too, but the current Peco is doing it's job so it will stay for now. View from the back with the crummy Peco:
Whilst I was underneath I was also checking out the gear linkage. The gear stick is incredibly vague, even by Peugeot standards, and pretty soon I discovered why. The right linkage pivot on the subframe was loose, introducing a load of slack:
A new washer and tightened up nut and there's a massive improvement in the feel of the gear stick and much easier the find gears, so well chuffed with that. Still a bit of 'standard' sloppiness left, but I've got some Group A gearchange rods in the garage, so at some point I will dig them out to see if they help a bit more.
Definitely approaching something that might pass an MOT now! Just a few odd jobs to finish off and I'll get it booked in.
Passenger door lock is now swapped too, but discovered the boot lock is riveted in so that halted play as I need to buy some new drill bits to get it out, and then a rivet gun to put it back in. Shouldn't be a hard job though.
With a brief spell of sunshine this morning I thought I'd try and get the exhaust done. I bought the cheapeast one I could find just get it sorted for now, as if I get round to doing an engine conversion another new exhaust will be needed anyway. All come off without too much trouble, but when I compared the exhausts it was easy to see why it was cheap:
The new one is missing the split in the downpipe, so won't give the beneficial effects of the 4-2-1 downpipe that an OEM one has. Not sure what the impact will be - maybe a bit lost from the top end? However, the dividing bit of metal in the old one was coming away and partially blocking the exhaust anyway, so the new one's got to be better than that!!
Ideally the back box needs replacing too, but the current Peco is doing it's job so it will stay for now. View from the back with the crummy Peco:
Whilst I was underneath I was also checking out the gear linkage. The gear stick is incredibly vague, even by Peugeot standards, and pretty soon I discovered why. The right linkage pivot on the subframe was loose, introducing a load of slack:
A new washer and tightened up nut and there's a massive improvement in the feel of the gear stick and much easier the find gears, so well chuffed with that. Still a bit of 'standard' sloppiness left, but I've got some Group A gearchange rods in the garage, so at some point I will dig them out to see if they help a bit more.
Definitely approaching something that might pass an MOT now! Just a few odd jobs to finish off and I'll get it booked in.
Few more jobs sorted out over the last few weeks...
In the last MOT the front seats were an advisory as they weren't secure. The seat itself is bolted to seat runners which also act as the tilting mechanism to get in the back. The whole lot is then bolted to the floorpan. It was clear a bit of play had crept into the joints/pivots of the runners so I sourced a decent set last year and have finally got round to fitting them. So basically this whole mechanism you see here is removed by taking off some trim and 4 torx bolts:
The result is a much more secure feeling seat. Not perfect, but none of my previous 205s/309s have been either!
With the front seats sorted I finally screwed all the rear trim back in. Also gave the rear seat brackets a bit of a paint as they were rusty as hell, as you can see (2 already de-rusted):
Painted and back in the car:
Not perfect, but a damn sight better than what they were. Eventually I'll probably get them powder coated for a lasting, tidier finish.
Also decided to fix the handbrake. It's always beena bit wobbly - I've never really looked properly but it just looked like it was missing a securing bolt. Wrong! Took the handbrake mechanism out and discovered this:
The mount that is tacked to the floorpan to accept the handbrake is all rusty and out of alingment. A bit of metal massaging later and it's fixed enough that the handbrake works without wobbling around:
Something else to add to the list when it goes to the welders!
And the interior is finally starting to look how it should:
Unfortunately after clearing the boot I found a bit more rust:
I'm gonna have to remortgage the house to pay for the welding at this rate!
With the interior sorted, it was time to attack the oily bits again. First of all the actual oily bits - oil and filter change. Nothing particularly interesting here, although I was amused when I found this on the sump plug:
Good old PTFE tape in place of a new washer. Suffice to say it now has a new washer!!
A few posts back I noted the off side track rod end was past it's best, so that also got changed for a new item:
You can't tell, but whilst the car was in the air I also stripped down, cleaned and reassembled the front brakes just to make sure they were all working as they should be.
After this it was just a case of getting some odd jobs done - fixing a headlight mount, replacing some minor broken parts, fitting number plate, checking lights, levels etc. Oh, and also finally chopped out the bodged wiring and fixed the front driving lights and fog lights:
With all this done I think we're just about ready for an MOT. The car is no-where near finished, but it would be nice to be able to drive it. Soooo, it's booked in Saturday morning - keep your fingers crossed pleased!!!
In the last MOT the front seats were an advisory as they weren't secure. The seat itself is bolted to seat runners which also act as the tilting mechanism to get in the back. The whole lot is then bolted to the floorpan. It was clear a bit of play had crept into the joints/pivots of the runners so I sourced a decent set last year and have finally got round to fitting them. So basically this whole mechanism you see here is removed by taking off some trim and 4 torx bolts:
The result is a much more secure feeling seat. Not perfect, but none of my previous 205s/309s have been either!
With the front seats sorted I finally screwed all the rear trim back in. Also gave the rear seat brackets a bit of a paint as they were rusty as hell, as you can see (2 already de-rusted):
Painted and back in the car:
Not perfect, but a damn sight better than what they were. Eventually I'll probably get them powder coated for a lasting, tidier finish.
Also decided to fix the handbrake. It's always beena bit wobbly - I've never really looked properly but it just looked like it was missing a securing bolt. Wrong! Took the handbrake mechanism out and discovered this:
The mount that is tacked to the floorpan to accept the handbrake is all rusty and out of alingment. A bit of metal massaging later and it's fixed enough that the handbrake works without wobbling around:
Something else to add to the list when it goes to the welders!
And the interior is finally starting to look how it should:
Unfortunately after clearing the boot I found a bit more rust:
I'm gonna have to remortgage the house to pay for the welding at this rate!
With the interior sorted, it was time to attack the oily bits again. First of all the actual oily bits - oil and filter change. Nothing particularly interesting here, although I was amused when I found this on the sump plug:
Good old PTFE tape in place of a new washer. Suffice to say it now has a new washer!!
A few posts back I noted the off side track rod end was past it's best, so that also got changed for a new item:
You can't tell, but whilst the car was in the air I also stripped down, cleaned and reassembled the front brakes just to make sure they were all working as they should be.
After this it was just a case of getting some odd jobs done - fixing a headlight mount, replacing some minor broken parts, fitting number plate, checking lights, levels etc. Oh, and also finally chopped out the bodged wiring and fixed the front driving lights and fog lights:
With all this done I think we're just about ready for an MOT. The car is no-where near finished, but it would be nice to be able to drive it. Soooo, it's booked in Saturday morning - keep your fingers crossed pleased!!!
Was great to drive the car again today, and even better when I came home with this:
Few advisories - 2 on the rear brakes for the discs being rusty and being out of balance, and 2 for the rusty sills. Brakes should easily be sorted with a strip down and cleanup, and I was well aware of the rusty sills, which will hopefully get fixed at some point in the near future.
I did notice the engine didn't sound particularly healthy - maybe just lack of sound deadening and the cheapo exhaust though? Whatever the issue, hopefully it'll last for the time being until I can sort out a replacement! For now though, I'm a very happy boy!!
Few advisories - 2 on the rear brakes for the discs being rusty and being out of balance, and 2 for the rusty sills. Brakes should easily be sorted with a strip down and cleanup, and I was well aware of the rusty sills, which will hopefully get fixed at some point in the near future.
I did notice the engine didn't sound particularly healthy - maybe just lack of sound deadening and the cheapo exhaust though? Whatever the issue, hopefully it'll last for the time being until I can sort out a replacement! For now though, I'm a very happy boy!!
CarlosV8 said:
With a brief spell of sunshine this morning I thought I'd try and get the exhaust done. I bought the cheapeast one I could find just get it sorted for now, as if I get round to doing an engine conversion another new exhaust will be needed anyway. All come off without too much trouble, but when I compared the exhausts it was easy to see why it was cheap:
The new one is missing the split in the downpipe, so won't give the beneficial effects of the 4-2-1 downpipe that an OEM one has. Not sure what the impact will be - maybe a bit lost from the top end?
The Bifurcation in the exhaust actually helps with low-mid end torque, (I seem to recall it improves exhaust scavenging and thus provides a better inlet charge)... we had a pattern part on our rally car, and on gravel stages was notably more responsive once we'd stuck the right part with the right split back in. (205 Challenge so had to be standard downpipe)The new one is missing the split in the downpipe, so won't give the beneficial effects of the 4-2-1 downpipe that an OEM one has. Not sure what the impact will be - maybe a bit lost from the top end?
Mr.Jimbo said:
The Bifurcation in the exhaust actually helps with low-mid end torque, (I seem to recall it improves exhaust scavenging and thus provides a better inlet charge)... we had a pattern part on our rally car, and on gravel stages was notably more responsive once we'd stuck the right part with the right split back in. (205 Challenge so had to be standard downpipe)
I've got a Magnex middle pipe and back box to go on that I bought a while back - it's off a rally car so has a few bumps but should do the job. I just need to find a suitable manifold for not too much money. This will give it a proper 4-2-1 system, so should solve any issues caused by the current exhaust.Work continues on the Goodwood...
Rear brakes have been stripped down, cleaned up and reassembled. No issues with them and it all looks fairly new, I think the advisory was a result of lack of use rather than any underlying issue.
Something that's been bugging me since fitting the new wishbones was that the o/s bolts were looking past their best. So I sourced a complete new set of bolts and went to get them fitted. Very glad I did, as this is what the front bolt looked like:
Doing it up last time must have stripped the thread and as a result it was a right PITA to get off. All sorted now though which is good.
With these little odd jobs done I felt just about confident enough to have a run out in it with the family. So I achieved my goal of taking it Wilton House earlier in the month and proudly parked my crappy old Peugeot shed amongst the exotica in the Pistonheads car park:
Really happy to have made it there, and when I got home I even found someone had thought it worthy enough to take a photo and upload to Flickr, which made my day!
Unfortunately the drive to Wilton and back revealed a few more issues to address. The suspension is horribly mismatched - the front is far too low/firm and the backend feels like it's trying to bounce about all over the place. The steering also fails to self centre properly and feels quite heavy (despite having PAS). So to hopefully resolve all of this I think it's time to invest in some new suspension - I've already got some rear dampers, but up front I want new struts, springs and top mounts. I'm hoping the new top mounts will help the steering, and returning to standard ride height with new dampers will help with the ride. The next step after that may be a rebuild of the rear beam. Unfortunately this is going to eat into my engine budget, but I think it's important to get this sort of thing sorted before chucking another 40bhp at the chassis!
On top of this we developed a squeak on the way home, which happened on each revolution of the wheels. Stopped and had a quick nose but couldn't see any obvious problems. Today I've had the car up in the air but can't replicate it. Will have a more thorough look about when I do the suspension.
Another annoyance I've mentioned before is the multiple keys I've got for the car. I decided to finally fix that today; I've already done the door locks so today I needed to do the ignition switch, which I wasn't looking forward to. Didn't turn out to be too bad, but it did mean removing a few bits of the dash:
Managed to get the old lock out though, and with a bit of faffing with wiring I got the new one in and everything back together. Did discover a load of bodged wiring though, including that coming off the key. I guess it's a result of having a Clifford alarm at some point. Most of it will have to stay as it is, but having a block connector in the high current starting circuit doesn't feel me with joy, so will need to source some new wiring for that at some point too. It's nice just to have one key on the keyring though
So for now I need to decide which suspension I want. I had Bilsteins on my old 205 road rally car and really liked that, but the rear dampers I've got are Boge so need to look into what they offer for the front. Any other suggestions for a decent setup?
Rear brakes have been stripped down, cleaned up and reassembled. No issues with them and it all looks fairly new, I think the advisory was a result of lack of use rather than any underlying issue.
Something that's been bugging me since fitting the new wishbones was that the o/s bolts were looking past their best. So I sourced a complete new set of bolts and went to get them fitted. Very glad I did, as this is what the front bolt looked like:
Doing it up last time must have stripped the thread and as a result it was a right PITA to get off. All sorted now though which is good.
With these little odd jobs done I felt just about confident enough to have a run out in it with the family. So I achieved my goal of taking it Wilton House earlier in the month and proudly parked my crappy old Peugeot shed amongst the exotica in the Pistonheads car park:
Really happy to have made it there, and when I got home I even found someone had thought it worthy enough to take a photo and upload to Flickr, which made my day!
Unfortunately the drive to Wilton and back revealed a few more issues to address. The suspension is horribly mismatched - the front is far too low/firm and the backend feels like it's trying to bounce about all over the place. The steering also fails to self centre properly and feels quite heavy (despite having PAS). So to hopefully resolve all of this I think it's time to invest in some new suspension - I've already got some rear dampers, but up front I want new struts, springs and top mounts. I'm hoping the new top mounts will help the steering, and returning to standard ride height with new dampers will help with the ride. The next step after that may be a rebuild of the rear beam. Unfortunately this is going to eat into my engine budget, but I think it's important to get this sort of thing sorted before chucking another 40bhp at the chassis!
On top of this we developed a squeak on the way home, which happened on each revolution of the wheels. Stopped and had a quick nose but couldn't see any obvious problems. Today I've had the car up in the air but can't replicate it. Will have a more thorough look about when I do the suspension.
Another annoyance I've mentioned before is the multiple keys I've got for the car. I decided to finally fix that today; I've already done the door locks so today I needed to do the ignition switch, which I wasn't looking forward to. Didn't turn out to be too bad, but it did mean removing a few bits of the dash:
Managed to get the old lock out though, and with a bit of faffing with wiring I got the new one in and everything back together. Did discover a load of bodged wiring though, including that coming off the key. I guess it's a result of having a Clifford alarm at some point. Most of it will have to stay as it is, but having a block connector in the high current starting circuit doesn't feel me with joy, so will need to source some new wiring for that at some point too. It's nice just to have one key on the keyring though
So for now I need to decide which suspension I want. I had Bilsteins on my old 205 road rally car and really liked that, but the rear dampers I've got are Boge so need to look into what they offer for the front. Any other suggestions for a decent setup?
The 309 has been ignored a bit recently as motivation has been some-what lacking. There just doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day at the moment, and I was seriously considering selling it a few weeks back, however my wife talked some sense into me so it's still here for the timebeing. After this blip I got the car out of the garage at the weekend, and surprisingly it fired up straight away after months of sitting there. Didn't really do much apart from forming a plan of action, but it's a start. I've got a few niggly interior jobs to sort, so I'm hoping a few hours in the evenings will allow me to get those done. But first big job is to fit these:
Just need to buy a new set of spring compressors and then I can get on with this. After that I need to try and fit a new exhaust manifold, as after checking with a stethoscope at the weekend I think there is a blow coming from it which I suspect is causing the noise I mentioned previously. The valve train was sounding a bit clattery too, but without another XU lump to compare it to it's difficult to say whether it's normal or knackered, so I'll ignore that for now and see what difference a new manifold makes.
After that it really needs to go to a welders to get some surgery done, so that's something I need to investigate in the new year. Hopefully there'll be some actual progress to report soon
Just need to buy a new set of spring compressors and then I can get on with this. After that I need to try and fit a new exhaust manifold, as after checking with a stethoscope at the weekend I think there is a blow coming from it which I suspect is causing the noise I mentioned previously. The valve train was sounding a bit clattery too, but without another XU lump to compare it to it's difficult to say whether it's normal or knackered, so I'll ignore that for now and see what difference a new manifold makes.
After that it really needs to go to a welders to get some surgery done, so that's something I need to investigate in the new year. Hopefully there'll be some actual progress to report soon
if i where you i'd buy proper bolts for your wishbones.
it's plain to see the difference between original and pattern.
i fully restored a phase 1 gti, and i replaced all parts (especially suspension bolts) with genuine parts
i rebuild axles, and personally wouldn't go any lower than -30mm on the back.
are you going to refresh the axle?
it's plain to see the difference between original and pattern.
i fully restored a phase 1 gti, and i replaced all parts (especially suspension bolts) with genuine parts
i rebuild axles, and personally wouldn't go any lower than -30mm on the back.
are you going to refresh the axle?
Edited by jord294 on Tuesday 26th November 09:59
jord294 said:
if i where you i'd buy proper bolts for your wishbones.
it's plain to see the difference between original and pattern.
i fully restored a phase 1 gti, and i replaced all parts (especially suspension bolts) with genuine parts
i rebuild axles, and personally wouldn't go any lower than -30mm on the back.
are you going to refresh the axle?
The bolts I've used are the same size, thread and strength as what Peugeot specify, the shoulder length is just slightly different. Is that really going to make a difference for the wishbone bolts? The wishbones did have different bolts on each side, so I couldn't even tell you if the one pictured is OEM or not, either way the new ones are certainly in much better condition!!it's plain to see the difference between original and pattern.
i fully restored a phase 1 gti, and i replaced all parts (especially suspension bolts) with genuine parts
i rebuild axles, and personally wouldn't go any lower than -30mm on the back.
are you going to refresh the axle?
Edited by jord294 on Tuesday 26th November 09:59
I'm not sure what the back is set to at the moment, but I suspect it's around 30mm. I'd need to see what the new springs will do to the front ride height, but I wouldn't plan on going any lower than -20mm at the back.
The axle seems OK at the moment - no noticeable negative camber and not seized, so it will probably be OK for the timebeing, but eventually I would like to get it rebuilt for peace of mind.
maybe the same size and strength, but it's the shank length that is more important.
peugeot o/e bolts allow the full shank through the sleeve of bushes giving more support, whereas pattern bolts tend to have a shorter shank which means part shank and thread through the centre of the bush, which can mean movement on cornering, and a shorter life
peugeot o/e bolts allow the full shank through the sleeve of bushes giving more support, whereas pattern bolts tend to have a shorter shank which means part shank and thread through the centre of the bush, which can mean movement on cornering, and a shorter life
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